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#741 levy1977

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 14:38

You want to benefit from a small guild? then you pay the price, you have 1 member, then you are only allowed to hit 1 member... 2vs2 and 3vs3 10vs10.. 124vs124. If you want balance, this is the only way to make it balanced. Fair is Fair, you should not start a solo guild and pillage a guild the size of Texas in 2-3min flat.. you should suffer the same as those you attacked.



I don't think this is anywhere near good, better balance would be that the min conflict participant amount would be 2-3, this would make it fair for both the big and small guild. And besides, in a one man guild everything is not like walking on roses, you don't have people online in your guild when you go to sleep to buff you with LD, Flinch, KE, DC etc. which is something a big guild could (and should) take advantage of. Now you know a downside for being solo and a downside for being a big guild, I don't see why the one man guilds GvG should be pushed as to this hard (yes its hard for a big guild to attack back, but they have the upside of people online even when the one man guild is sleeping)? I think the perfect settlement here would be the minimum participant amount to be lifted up.


This is going to sound harsh, and hurt your feelings.. but you along with hundreds of others, are abusing this game going solo... Before the update on conflicts, there were 2 guilds who were solo, PHOOL and JOE777.... in which case, they were not doing conflicts or abusing anything.

You cannot have your cake and eat it too. You cannot make a conflict and be able to plow through a guild with 25 targets in 2min flat.. and have the distinct advantage of only being hit back 1vs1... there is no way to raise the number of participants to more then 1, because your ALL BY YOURSELF..

a GUILD is a GUILD... not a 1 man wrecking ball... Guilds are designed to have multiple people.. Don't try and protect something is clearly a distinct advantage in guild conflicts. weather you have 1 or 10 people, you will have a clear advantage in doing conflicts and my idea clearly levels the playing field.. if a guild has to suffer hitting you for 2 hours, and longer with deflect on, then you deserve the same fate!

#742 Nappeh

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 15:10

Hey Levy, I LOVED your post and the suggestions you made. Especially the one of a Red Mass PM warning of the initiated conflict.

The only point I would tweak is this one : "Add a new feature to the conflicts page as well, one that only a leader with permission can see, where it allows members to join conflicts..
Eliminate accidental conflict joiners.. remove the possibility through deflected attacks, bounty board, or PvP for a member to join without the permission being granted by a leader."

I feel I would tie this idea into your other great Idea of the 30 day grace period rule. As a soldier, the actions of one always can effect the entire company, for good or bad. During the 30 grace period one should be trained in all aspects of the game including conflicts. It can be considered like basic training for the military where you are being trained and not in real combat. After the period there should be no excuses for not knowing protocols. Nice post, ^5! =D

#743 Sakuliver

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 15:14

LoL!! interesting to see somebody who he has been using the "opportunities" of mazes in the rules to take an advantage over so many other people, is now accusing somebody else that he shouldn't take advantage of another maze :shock:

#744 stormfish

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 15:17

This is going to sound harsh, and hurt your feelings.. but you along with hundreds of others, are abusing this game going solo... Before the update on conflicts, there were 2 guilds who were solo, PHOOL and JOE777.... in which case, they were not doing conflicts or abusing anything.

...


Are you sure?

I have my guild more than 10 months. And i play solo from 1-st day in world of FS. This is my style and choice. I make my guild because of annoying and constant requests to join in all sorts of guilds.

Enjoy the game and don't try to make everything and everybody uniform. (o;

p.s.
Other solo guilds founded before update: 'One Hand Clapping', 'The Cathouse', 'The Courts' ...
And 'Super Elite Slayers' most of the time, not to say never been solo guild. As far as I remember Phool stopped playing long before update.

#745 levy1977

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 15:30

LoL!! interesting to see somebody who he has been using the "opportunities" of mazes in the rules to take an advantage over so many other people, is now accusing somebody else that he shouldn't take advantage of another maze :shock:


Think about it.. if you want your home protected and the securities upgraded to the best potential to keep a thief out, you hire a thief to come find all the possible loopholes and openings into your home..

I admit openly that I used the loopholes for my guilds advantage, but I assure you, I never got to keep 1 RP for myself. In a way, I have had a life changing experience, and now see some of what I did as wrong.. If I get terminated, at least I will have run a thorough diagnostic to how this game is suppose to be played.. I am not a selfish player, never have been.. DONE more for others in this game then anyone else. now, I give back the knowledge I learned in the time I have been here. Of course I took advantage of the system, thats what smart people do.. but now is the time to fix the flaws, so I offer what I have learned.. no reason to come here and bash me for sharing my experience and willing to open enough to share it... if you want me terminated, just send in a ticket and stop complaining. Oh, and im not telling anyone to stop taking advantage of loopholes, im suggesting they be closed. In this case, you have all the opportunity to use your imagination and do something unique for the game, instead of complaining.

#746 sweetlou

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 15:32


This is going to sound harsh, and hurt your feelings.. but you along with hundreds of others, are abusing this game going solo... Before the update on conflicts, there were 2 guilds who were solo, PHOOL and JOE777.... in which case, they were not doing conflicts or abusing anything.

...


Are you sure?

I have my guild more than 10 months. And i play solo from 1-st day in world of FS. This is my style and choice. I make my guild because of annoying and constant requests to join in all sorts of guilds.

Enjoy the game and don't try to make everything and everybody uniform. (o;

Yeah I'm sure. There should be limits to the size of guild numbers against another guild. Levy may not like it either but I think you need to have 25 or 50 plus players to conflict another guild of the same size. GvG should mean a comparable guild attacks on another guild of comparable size. Not 1 against 128 or 5 against 75. Make the conflicts equitable, meaning alike.

I don't care WHY you started a guild, but it isn't in the same spirit that Joe777 or Phool did. That is an absolute!

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#747 levy1977

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 15:32

p.s.
Other solo guilds founded before update: 'One Hand Clapping', 'The Cathouse', 'The Courts' ...
And 'Super Elite Slayers' most of the time, not to say never been solo guild.


wow.. you just named 3 guilds who are new to the community as of a month or two ago. only 1 of those guilds has been around longer.. much longer

#748 Sakuliver

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 15:45

LoL!! interesting to see somebody who he has been using the "opportunities" of mazes in the rules to take an advantage over so many other people, is now accusing somebody else that he shouldn't take advantage of another maze :shock:


Think about it.. if you want your home protected and the securities upgraded to the best potential to keep a thief out, you hire a thief to come find all the possible loopholes and openings into your home..

I admit openly that I used the loopholes for my guilds advantage, but I assure you, I never got to keep 1 RP for myself. In a way, I have had a life changing experience, and now see some of what I did as wrong.. If I get terminated, at least I will have run a thorough diagnostic to how this game is suppose to be played.. I am not a selfish player, never have been.. DONE more for others in this game then anyone else. now, I give back the knowledge I learned in the time I have been here. Of course I took advantage of the system, thats what smart people do.. but now is the time to fix the flaws, so I offer what I have learned.. no reason to come here and bash me for sharing my experience and willing to open enough to share it... if you want me terminated, just send in a ticket and stop complaining. Oh, and im not telling anyone to stop taking advantage of loopholes, im suggesting they be closed. In this case, you have all the opportunity to use your imagination and do something unique for the game, instead of complaining.


I don't think I mentioned I want you got terminated. I always admire those who manage to use the mazes as soon as something new comes out. That's why I was writing about "using the opportunities within the rules" instead of your use of "abusing" towards others. Also, this hasn't really anything to do with how much you're helping others. I definitely think these loopholes should be fixed as it seems that they are often around for ages.
In other words, I was just amused by reading your comment...everybody needs some fun to break the day :D

#749 stormfish

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 15:47

Yeah I'm sure. There should be limits to the size of guild numbers against another guild. Levy may not like it either but I think you need to have 25 or 50 plus players to conflict another guild of the same size. GvG should mean a comparable guild attacks on another guild of comparable size. Not 1 against 128 or 5 against 75. Make the conflicts equitable, meaning alike.

I don't care WHY you started a guild, but it isn't in the same spirit that Joe777 or Phool did. That is an absolute!


I don't argue about mechanisms of GVG (in fact i'm agree with you, in my case of solo guild i must be able to attack only solo guilds) and don't compared with Phool or anybody else. I talking about 'ONLY two solo guilds ...' and other general conclusions of levy1977.

#750 DragonLord

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 16:06

a GUILD is a GUILD... not a 1 man wrecking ball... Guilds are designed to have multiple people.. Don't try and protect something is clearly a distinct advantage in guild conflicts. weather you have 1 or 10 people, you will have a clear advantage in doing conflicts and my idea clearly levels the playing field.. if a guild has to suffer hitting you for 2 hours, and longer with deflect on, then you deserve the same fate!


This is actually one of the few posts of yours i actually agree with Levy. Having said that, you did fight tooth and nail to protect YOUR advantage until common sense, argument and public opinion swayed you around.

All unfair advantages in the game should be removed, or reduced as much as possible. The problem is, as others have already stated, where two people can discuss a lockdown, they can also discuss a way around it. Some "advantages" however cause more harm, more resentment than others - and the issue of 1-man guilds GvG'ing PURELY for profit, not for any love of the game per se, just to line their pocket , is an anathema to me. GvG should have minimum requirements of "x" people in the guild where "x" is a number greater than one and decided by the cows.

I have no problem with 1-man guilds per se - but they should be banned from participating in GvG.

On another matter tho, you might find your posts reach a larger (accepting) audience if you weren't so narcissistic and thought the sun shone out of your derriere. Comments like "I am not a selfish player, never have been.. DONE more for others in this game then anyone else" and "My investment into this game and those I ever came in contact with have undoubtedly changed this game for the better" and "the amount I spent on this game and how much I freely gave of myself and how little I spent on myself is sick" make you out to set yourself "above" other players. You're not - you're just A.N.Other player of Fallensword, nothing more, nothing less.

#751 stormfish

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 16:55

... Some "advantages" however cause more harm, more resentment than others - and the issue of 1-man guilds GvG'ing PURELY for profit, not for any love of the game per se, just to line their pocket , is an anathema to me. ...


Hunting plants - PURELY for profit.
SE hunting - some people doing this for fun or for thrill to kill one SE, but there are a lot of player doing this only for profit.
Buying items in AH an reselling them - PURELY for profit.
Marketplace games - PURELY for profit.
A lot of non solo guild GvG'ing PURELY for profit.
Titan hunting - same like SE hunting.

Let's cut 90% of aspects in game because players want to improve their characters (PURELY for profit).

#752 Mister Doom

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 17:10

... Some "advantages" however cause more harm, more resentment than others - and the issue of 1-man guilds GvG'ing PURELY for profit, not for any love of the game per se, just to line their pocket , is an anathema to me. ...


Hunting plants - PURELY for profit.
SE hunting - some people doing this for fun or for thrill to kill one SE, but there are a lot of player doing this only for profit.
Buying items in AH an reselling them - PURELY for profit.
Marketplace games - PURELY for profit.
A lot of non solo guild GvG'ing PURELY for profit.
Titan hunting - same like SE hunting.

Let's cut 90% of aspects in game because players want to improve their characters (PURELY for profit).


Almost everything you just said just there is what a single player can do to help advance their character, whether they are in a big/small or no guild at all.
Non-solo guilds GvG'ing for profit isn't the same as a 1-man guild doing the same thing.
It's defies the whole idea of a guild, guilds are communities where people can work together to achieve common 'or uncommon' goals.
This can and does sometime include activities that are driven by profit.
One person creating a guild with no intention of ever creating a community with it and then proceeding to harvest other guilds is a blatant abuse of the system and you damn well know it.

#753 fs_kinkyimp

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 17:28

This is going to sound harsh, and hurt your feelings.. but you along with hundreds of others, are abusing this game going solo... Before the update on conflicts, there were 2 guilds who were solo, PHOOL and JOE777.... in which case, they were not doing conflicts or abusing anything.


Abuse this, abuse that. Im playing by the rules and I don't find it abusing the game, no, not even close.

And have the distinct advantage of only being hit back 1vs1... there is no way to raise the number of participants to more then 1, because your ALL BY YOURSELF..


I guess I made my self unclear on that one, I ment by the minimum participant amounts that if I, for example, GvG TED they could have minimum of 2-3 (or what ever number) to attack me back, instead of the 1 we have now. Now, I don't care if the guild would have one player or 100 players, you wouldn't need to fill the minimum participant amount if you don't want to. Understand?

#754 EJames2100

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 17:55

An initial Guild has an 8 member limit, why not make it so you have to have 8 members just to initiate a conflict ?

Or make every conflict have a minimum of say 5-8 slots and if there is only 1 in range, the attacking range improves so theres a chance more people can get involved.

#755 DragonLord

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 17:59

An initial Guild has an 8 member limit, why not make it so you have to have 8 members just to initiate a conflict ?

Or make every conflict have a minimum of say 5-8 slots and if there is only 1 in range, the attacking range improves so theres a chance more people can get involved.


First point, yes, i like that :)

Not too keen on the 2nd :)

#756 ZidaneT

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 18:03

wow.. you just named 3 guilds who are new to the community as of a month or two ago. only 1 of those guilds has been around longer.. much longer


Not that i want to fan your rabid flaming by suggesting that you are wrong.... but...

Guild: IRC
You are wrong.

Long story short.... people can play solo. in fact, anyone over lvl25 with a few fsp can go make a solo guild.... see, that's the kicker, you don't actually *require* massive amounts of people, nor do you *require* a single person. you can play however you see fit.

Now why don't you go get a tissue and blow your nose, and realise that in a gvg, you can hit back. if it takes you longer than the other guy, then that's your problem. because here's the real big clue.... you can, with enough effort, find guilds that you can attack that will give you the tiny advantage offered by having limited people within that range... but i guess you're just too lazy to put the work in, and what a surprise, because you can't figure it out, it must be cheating!

There is no advantage that is deliberately given to single player guilds, if anything, we are at a massive disadvantage. You can do exactly what we do, if you think you have the balls.

or, you can come and whine all day on the forums.

#757 ZidaneT

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 18:20

whether they are in a big/small or no guild at all.
Non-solo guilds GvG'ing for profit isn't the same as a 1-man guild doing the same thing.


please explain the following

how is a 1 person guild gvg'ing for profit different from a 2 person guild gvg'ing for profit?
how is a 2 person guild gvg'ing for profit different from a 3 person guild gvg'ing for profit?
how is a 3 person guild gvg'ing for profit different from a 4 person guild gvg'ing for profit?
how is a 4 person guild gvg'ing for profit different from a 5 person guild gvg'ing for profit?
how is a 5 person guild gvg'ing for profit different from a 6 person guild gvg'ing for profit?

A solo guild engaging in gvg for profit is exactly the same as a 40 person guild engaging in pvp for profit. The only difference is that solo guilds may, on occasion, be able to complete their attacks quicker.

now, please explain to me why we should continue to allow SE hunting, as a 40 person guild clearly has an advantage over a solo guild

if you could then proceed to explain why your utterly nonsensical ramblings don't apply to titan hunting, arena battles, levelling.....

It's defies the whole idea of a guild, guilds are communities where people can work together to achieve common 'or uncommon' goals.

And pray tell, these "communities" are to be given special privileges, above and beyond all other players, because they have 40+ people in their guild? sure, you go explain that to the two and three person low level guilds who are just starting out....

This can and does sometime include activities that are driven by profit.

That's the kicker, right there.

Tell me, what, exactly, gives you the right to decide that your guild can do something for profit and nobody else can?

sounds to me like someone is a little upset that someone else made some fsp....

One person creating a guild with no intention of ever creating a community with it and then proceeding to harvest other guilds is a blatant abuse of the system and you damn well know it.


Why thankyou so much for that terrific personal insult, how wonderous it is to see such well thought out comments instead of your usual rambling mouth-frothing we have come to expect. Consider the guild IRC, it's a guild I made, and i made it so i could play on my own, because i like the challenge. I keep a large community presence, and donate both my time and my money to the fallensword community in the hopes of overcoming these rediculous attitudes like yours....

I guess this is a prime example of just another high level player crying because other people might be catching up....

#758 sweetlou

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 18:23


Yeah I'm sure. There should be limits to the size of guild numbers against another guild. Levy may not like it either but I think you need to have 25 or 50 plus players to conflict another guild of the same size. GvG should mean a comparable guild attacks on another guild of comparable size. Not 1 against 128 or 5 against 75. Make the conflicts equitable, meaning alike.

I don't care WHY you started a guild, but it isn't in the same spirit that Joe777 or Phool did. That is an absolute!


I don't argue about mechanisms of GVG (in fact i'm agree with you, in my case of solo guild i must be able to attack only solo guilds)

Isn't that called PvP? Not as much profit in PvP is there?

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“When you tear out a man's tongue, you are not proving him a liar, you're only telling the world that you fear what he might say.” -GRRM


#759 sweetlou

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 18:28

A solo guild engaging in gvg for profit is exactly the same as a 40 person guild engaging in pvp for profit. The only difference is that solo guilds may, on occasion, be able to complete their attacks quicker.

I wonder how many levels you dropped intentionally? Same arguments are coming from players abusing the GvG system as with intentional delevelers. We can do it so it must be ok... Sorry your days are numbered.

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“When you tear out a man's tongue, you are not proving him a liar, you're only telling the world that you fear what he might say.” -GRRM


#760 stormfish

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 18:32

Almost everything you just said just there is what a single player can do to help advance their character, whether they are in a big/small or no guild at all.
Non-solo guilds GvG'ing for profit isn't the same as a 1-man guild doing the same thing.
It's defies the whole idea of a guild, guilds are communities where people can work together to achieve common 'or uncommon' goals.
This can and does sometime include activities that are driven by profit.
One person creating a guild with no intention of ever creating a community with it and then proceeding to harvest other guilds is a blatant abuse of the system and you damn well know it.


What harvesting you talking about? Whit my 1500 stam? Every non solo guild have more possibilities to harvest other guilds IF they want that. For example your guild have 20 players, i.e. ~ 30-40k stam. I can start max 3 conflicts today, your guild can start 20. Your guild can buff participants in this conflicts wit rest of your stamina, and watch over conflicts and participants 24 hours (i need to sleep sometimes). I pay for my conflicts such as you.

The only advantage of solo guilds are following:
The major problem, is that i can attack and finish one conflict for abouth 10 min, but your guild need 100 min to finish that (IF you attack solo guild).

Solution: make participants in conflicts locked to smallest number ot guild players, i.e.

solo guild (1) attack normal guild (50) - only one player of each guild can be attacked and can attack. Even if 'normal' guild have 30 players in my GVG range i must choise one and attack only him. I need 100 min to finish and other guild need too. Simple.


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