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Game Update v1.6493


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#261 fs_mindlayer

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Posted 21 January 2010 - 21:58

I would like to know is what will happen to the people like me who have already lost their levels? I know mostly everyone disagrees with the idea of the new system because we still have our buffs in theory, just reduced in strength. I of course like the current system because I'm not losing everything that I worked for and "earned" (see below), but many will disagree and say that you didn't earn the skills and that is your personal opinion, not mine. In actuality I leveled up to X level and got the skill points because I leveled to X level meaning I earned them through leveling to that level.

The current system is taking away many of my buffs, meaning that I still do have some of the things that I "earned"(see below) by leveling, thus I'm not completely screwed for making a decision that was enabled by the old system. The current system makes many people mad because of that exact fact above.

Hoof - I like the current system completely. I wish that the topic of people like me losing levels would be dropped completely. Just because people like me have a few extra buffs, people are complaining. Under the old system, I did something that would help me and the people around me, and let me explore another aspect of the game along with friends and allies of mine. I know that it is your final decision of what will happen, but I ask that things do not change anymore because I don't want to lose everything that I have "earned". (earned in quotes because of the many people who disagree with me saying that you are abusing / over-powered in having them, etc)...I ask once again, to consider the players that already lost levels and how we will lose everything that they have "earned" (same as above). I know anyone that is running a "business" has to go with the majority of the people, but please just consider the players like me in making your final decision.

A thank you goes out to the people that agree with me. I'm glad that not everyone is against people like me having a few buffs.


David, your post is really hard to get =/

#262 BalianRW

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Posted 21 January 2010 - 22:46

from a levelers standpoint :

the extra XP from prestige must be more than the XP lost to bountys.

Very rough calc: I lose 40% of a level on 10X10stam clearance on board. I would gain 0,6-0,8 levels more with 10% prestige on 10K hunt stam. And that would be 45-50 attacks to max it. 1 bounty thus negates the gain.

So prestige -as it was designed- is not gonna promote PvP unless it is riskfree - which is should never be as when people trade rating or farm inactives.

Hardcore PvPers get a bonus for the hunt they do every 3 months. Levelers that live in fear of the bountyboard get nothing and suffer nothing. Fair enough and much better than before.


However if Prestige is intended to promote more PvP in the game then I suggest a better reward = less attacks needed to max the 10% bonus.


+1



+1

And the higher level you are, the less people u can find to pvp prestige, not to mention
the new 3 days rule.. not a chance u can get that 10% bonus.
Increase the pvp prestige points gained per sucesful attack.


+1

As a leveler the downside to being bountied far outweighs the benefit gained from the PvP prestige. A while back in an attempt to gain/farm PvP prestige I was hitting players below my level (so that they didn't lose any XP) returning ALL the gold they lost (not just what was stolen) so that they only thing lost was a few points of PvP raiting and I got a 1 FSP bounty put on me. As a result I lost FAR more XP from the bounty then I gained from using the PvP prestige. Since that time I have not done any PvPing outside of bounty hunting.

If the idea behind PvP prestige is to get more players doing PvP then it isn't working. For the levelers the risk is too high so they won't do anything out of the ordinary. The PvPers aren't going to PvP more simply because they get an extra benefit (prestige) (besides how can you PvP more than all the time). The prestige isn't really a benefit for PvPers anyway, since they typically like to stay at a level where they are comfortable, so the only use they get is when they need to level back up after being deleveled.

#263 Asahara

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Posted 21 January 2010 - 22:59

+1

As a leveler the downside to being bountied far outweighs the benefit gained from the PvP prestige. A while back in an attempt to gain/farm PvP prestige I was hitting players below my level (so that they didn't lose any XP) returning ALL the gold they lost (not just what was stolen) so that they only thing lost was a few points of PvP raiting and I got a 1 FSP bounty put on me. As a result I lost FAR more XP from the bounty then I gained from using the PvP prestige. Since that time I have not done any PvPing outside of bounty hunting.

If the idea behind PvP prestige is to get more players doing PvP then it isn't working. For the levelers the risk is too high so they won't do anything out of the ordinary. The PvPers aren't going to PvP more simply because they get an extra benefit (prestige) (besides how can you PvP more than all the time). The prestige isn't really a benefit for PvPers anyway, since they typically like to stay at a level where they are comfortable, so the only use they get is when they need to level back up after being deleveled.


People in this game can't think. I once went around, 10 stamming everyone in range that was below me, and returned gold as an experiment to see peoples reaction.

I lost more levels than I do actively 100 stamming people for gold.

#264 fs_toc13

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Posted 21 January 2010 - 23:23

Replacing their lost gold is easy...their lost XP on the other hand.....

#265 fs_regnier7

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Posted 21 January 2010 - 23:27

Replacing their lost gold is easy...their lost XP on the other hand.....



But you don't get what he's saying. Asa said he lost more levels 10-stamming people and giving back gold than he did 100-stamming for gold.

100 stam = a lot more Xp loss.

He's making a point that people don't often check how hard they were hit or if they've even lost anything.

#266 fs_gravely

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Posted 21 January 2010 - 23:30

Gravely, not take it personal, but how many players are there in your range? i am sure more than 5000. in mine range are hardly 30 active (i've counted them all). and the higher u go, the less people there are to pvp.


First off, I'm over level 400...my game rank is currently 2,300 or so. So I'm very sure that while I do have more targets than you, it's infinitesmally smaller than 5000. I'd say I probably have closer to 500, although there is no way that I know of to get an accurate count. You have the advantage of appearing on the top player board.

Second, I'm neither ignorant nor stupid. I'm aware how the pyramid system of population works in this game, and therefor how available or not targets are.

think outside the box and try to think a way to promote pvp. pvp prestige
as it was till so far was promoting it, despite the flaws in it.
this way pvp is once again a thing that levelers wont bother anymore.


This is why I quoted both celendais AND bleltch. Cel's main point was that the redeeming factor, if any, of prestige in its' original form was that it promoted PvP.

However, the problem is that greed is the mother of invention and players in this game, who are used to trading or collaborating to do everything else, found a way to make Prestige just another trading game. The simple perspective that you post from validates this. You are unhappy, not because you have so few targets, but because you have so little ability to trade now. If you could trade with one other player every two minutes, you'd be happy. Me? I'd be bored stiff. The difference is I enjoy the experience of PvP, while admitted levelers, like yourself, tend not to.

That's not a personal jab, plenty of people don't like PvP, but I'd be interested to see what your reaction would have been had this update not introduced a cooldown timer to prestige. I'd suspect you'd have given not one good rip; of course, I'd be happy for you to prove me wrong.

Solution increase the pvp prestige points gained per attack,
at least for the higher people, as there are way less people there
and moreover the lost xp in a possible bounty is way more than what a lvl 100 can lose.


I'm actually fine with that, on one condition - exp loss works both ways, up AND down levels.

#267 fs_gravely

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Posted 21 January 2010 - 23:41

I currently have 22 possible targets (assuming they're all active), 5 of which are below my level. I've tried to make this point before. I suppose our only alternative is to prowl the bb. :wink:


I have a question, shep.

Why should, on top of having access to all arenas, almost all gear, all content/quests, all titans, all buffs, should high level (for sake of the discussion, 700+) players also have an equal (or greater) opportunity to experience PvP?

Just curious.

#268 BalianRW

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Posted 21 January 2010 - 23:47

Replacing their lost gold is easy...their lost XP on the other hand.....



But you don't get what he's saying. Asa said he lost more levels 10-stamming people and giving back gold than he did 100-stamming for gold.

100 stam = a lot more Xp loss.

He's making a point that people don't often check how hard they were hit or if they've even lost anything.


Also, note that both he and I were hitting people BELOW our level so they didn't lose ANY XP.

#269 abhorrence

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Posted 21 January 2010 - 23:55

I have a question, shep.

Why should, on top of having access to all arenas, almost all gear, all content/quests, all titans, all buffs, should high level (for sake of the discussion, 700+) players also have an equal (or greater) opportunity to experience PvP?

Just curious.


Simple!
So they can be put on the bounty board. Not every day I get to 100 stam people twice my level! Just kidding. I 97 stam high level people so when Budro asks me, "Hey I got a message about you 100 stamming someone for no reason, what's up?" I can reply, " Budro, I SWEAR I didn't 100 stam him, I didn't even 99 stam him." Which I expect him to ask me, "98 stam?" and I can still say no.

#270 fs_toc13

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Posted 21 January 2010 - 23:57

It's not that people don't notice how hard they were hit, it's that they don't care.
It's not that they don't think, they do. The thought is 'you will not hit me at all without being bountied'.

That being said, if you want to run some experiments- say 10 x10 stam hits & make a note of bounties & XP lost from them & then 3 days later run the same amount of 100-stam hits & make the same notes.
Targets chosen would have to fit the same criteria with regards to player type etc....

#271 fs_gravely

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Posted 21 January 2010 - 23:59

Perhaps I'm being unclear, hor.

I'm not asking why high level players should be allowed to participate in PvP, I'm asking why they should have the advantages they accrue as a high level player, and then be retroactively gifted with the advantages a low(er) level player has in PvP.

As one of the favorite FS phrases goes, have your cake and eat it too?

#272 abhorrence

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Posted 22 January 2010 - 00:17

Perhaps I'm being unclear, hor.

I'm not asking why high level players should be allowed to participate in PvP, I'm asking why they should have the advantages they accrue as a high level player, and then be retroactively gifted with the advantages a low(er) level player has in PvP.

As one of the favorite FS phrases goes, have your cake and eat it too?


You were crystal clear. I just want high levels on the BB more often. I want my cake and eat theirs too.

#273 fs_death1799

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Posted 22 January 2010 - 04:48

i used to play this game kinda the smame concept as fs but you could bounty anyone you want as long as you payed for it.. i would love to see it this way on this game.. just think how many targets you would have.. and i may add it worked really nice aswell.. also for the higher levels in gvg the need to make the 25+- up to 50+- maybe just for levels 400+ .. cause that wouldent work a 50 hitting a level 1..lol..

#274 fs_rdshepherd

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Posted 22 January 2010 - 05:20

I currently have 22 possible targets (assuming they're all active), 5 of which are below my level. I've tried to make this point before. I suppose our only alternative is to prowl the bb. :wink:


I have a question, shep.

Why should, on top of having access to all arenas, almost all gear, all content/quests, all titans, all buffs, should high level (for sake of the discussion, 700+) players also have an equal (or greater) opportunity to experience PvP?

Just curious.


You're absolutely right (as you are in everything you say, apparently). I have no rights to participate in pvp. Thanks for straightening that out for me. Ass.

#275 insaner6

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Posted 22 January 2010 - 05:33

This is a place for feedback.
PvP is for everyone.
Dear Gravely , you have posted your feedback
from your experience at levels around 400.
now please accept the feedback from players around level 700.
as you are not here, you cant possibly know how it is so please dont
pretend to know something that u havent experienced (yet).


fixed.

#276 fs_gravely

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Posted 22 January 2010 - 06:54

You're absolutely right (as you are in everything you say, apparently). I have no rights to participate in pvp. Thanks for straightening that out for me. Ass.


Thanks for taking it totally the wrong way. You have every right to participate in PvP. I never said different.

But consider the conundrum posed by players who rush towards end of content. A strong motivation, if not the strongest motivation, to level is to be considered "the best" yes? Many, many guilds in this game consider themselves "the number 1 guild" or "Top player" because that's how the majority of the game orients itself. There's nothing wrong with this.

But by striving to be the best, to be ahead of everyone else, to be a higher level, you're inherently working against the mechanics of how PvP operates in this game. Unless you want to be able to hit players hundreds of levels below you (which is possible, via the bounty board, but we both know we're talking about off the board PvP) then you cannot have your cake and eat it too. The simple fact is that I, as a level 400 ish player, am going to have more targets, and thus gain more prestige, hit more players, and pay less tickets than you are. It's possibly the single advantage a lower level player has over a higher one in this game - lesser costs and a wider population to interact with, both from a PvP perspective and a GvG perspective.

I have no clue in hell what you think I was insinuating, but that was what I was trying to get at - that it's a complete oxymoron to expect to be ahead of everyone else and then want to be able to suddenly flip some sort of switch and expect to have the one advantage in the game you don't enjoy.

#277 abhorrence

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Posted 22 January 2010 - 09:55

Dear Gravely and Abhorrence


err why are you including me in that statement? I have defended high levels and their right to be able to hit more targets throughout all these threads. Making suggestion after suggestion and comment after comment about how it is unfair for them. i.e. I said to make level range based on 10% of a players level so at level 721 you would have a range of +-36 levels.(lvl 1-100 would have a minimum of +-5 lvls) I argued that 72 hours was too long because higher levels players have such a limited range and that would be unfair. I am guilded with StangValle who comments on his perspective on PvP, I dare say I might be qualified to have an opinion on it.

#278 insaner6

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Posted 22 January 2010 - 10:17

.....

I said to make level range based on 10% of a players level so at level 721 you would have a range of +-36 levels.(lvl 1-100 would have a minimum of +-5 lvls) I argued that 72 hours was too long because higher levels players have such a limited range and that would be unfair. I am guilded with StangValle who comments on his perspective on PvP, I dare say I might be qualified to have an opinion on it.



Brilliant ideas. Implent those ones. (i guess i missed them somewhere in the long thread)


Puting time limits in pvp prestige, is same as forbidding pvp.

1.remove time limits.
2.leave inactives being un-hitable as they are.. there arent any in higher levels anyway.
3.enlarge the pvp prestige points according to high level a player is
(level 100 gets 10 pvp prestige points per succesful attack
level 200 gets 20 pvp prestige points per succesful attack
...
level 700 gets 70 pvp prestige points per succesful attack)

#279 vlkfenrir

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Posted 22 January 2010 - 11:07

...
1.remove time limits.
2.leave inactives being un-hitable as they are.. there arent any in higher levels anyway.
3.enlarge the pvp prestige points according to high level a player is
(level 100 gets 10 pvp prestige points per succesful attack
level 200 gets 20 pvp prestige points per succesful attack
...
level 700 gets 70 pvp prestige points per succesful attack)


1. I have to agree the time limit is pain at higher lvls but don't think it should be removed.
2. agree
3. Are U serious? 1 and half % extra exp per hit at lvl 700? Thats not gonna work.

#280 insaner6

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Posted 22 January 2010 - 13:28

the xp lose from a possible bounty is way more than to a level 100. why shouldnt the pvp prestige be more than a level 100?


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