Hoof made what I think the correct decision was. bigDAWG112, there are a lot of wholes in your 'join date' alternative. Make a better argument, that's all. I'd get even more then you by that method because I started playing before. I'm not trying to be self-serving, only objective. HCS deemed this decision to award even further all donators, past and present, and for all future logins. A hunch tells me they are concerned about donations, not a good thing for anyone. Hope they achieve what they want.We won't be allocating it retroactively for logins as the loyalty medal wasn't there from day one and hence it wouldn't be possible to get an accurate count of days for players who joined before the medal was added.
Game Update v1.6542
#321
Posted 10 March 2010 - 05:15
[Signature removed]
“When you tear out a man's tongue, you are not proving him a liar, you're only telling the world that you fear what he might say.” -GRRM
#322
Posted 10 March 2010 - 05:34
/////
HCS deemed this decision to award even further all donators, past and present, and for all future logins. A hunch tells me they are concerned about donations, not a good thing for anyone. Hope they achieve what they want.
exactly. Out of nowhere ( and some suggestions after the recruiting thing failed) I was flooded with potions to make me level even faster. On terms of "fast leveling stamina per dollar" these potions seem far cheaper than +25 stam for 1 FSP.
So yes I makes me worried.
#323
fs_bigdawg112
Posted 10 March 2010 - 05:35
I think it is best to look at Dev's game decisions from their point of view, what is best for the game in general.
Hoof made what I think the correct decision was. bigDAWG112, there are a lot of wholes in your 'join date' alternative. Make a better argument, that's all. I'd get even more then you by that method because I started playing before.We won't be allocating it retroactively for logins as the loyalty medal wasn't there from day one and hence it wouldn't be possible to get an accurate count of days for players who joined before the medal was added.
I don't see any holes in my arguement, Join date is static, doesnt change players log in usually every day very rare does a player go inactive for a month or 2 and come back and still stay amongst the ranks. Yes, you would get even more by virtue of join date, i dont have a problem with that, you joined when you joined so you too should receive retroactive AT. but what i do have a problem with is only half of the system is being retro-activated. its very simple look at join date and allocate since then,
so i joined october of 08 365 (oct 09) + ~ 150 = 515 * 5 = 2575 meaning i could have up to 2575 AT if the system was in effect when i first joined now, there have been a hand full of days in which i didnt log in for what ever reason, which when added up equals no more than 100 AT. i would much rather get 2500 and have donors get their 3000+ for joining before me in addition to the amount from donations than get nothing at all and see donors reap the benefits. heck, even if they gave us half of that i would be satisfied but as long as we get some sort of leveling in the playing field.
am i more clear now? or are there still some holes?
#324
Posted 10 March 2010 - 05:55
Yes, I think so. It is not as rare as you might think that a player doesn't log in everyday OR goes inactive, for whatever amount of time, and returns to play. Let me make just one extreme example. Say a player joined the last part of '06 when the game started. They decide, you know the game is too young and goes inactive. They come back a year later when things are moving along nicely, already lots of players, and enjoys playing again. So clumping players together by join date is problematic at best. There is no way to gauge their value to the game as Hoof explained. Not until they introduced loyalty medals was login amount tracked. That started sometime in '08.I don't see any holes in my arguement, Join date is static, doesnt change players log in usually every day very rare does a player go inactive for a month or 2 and come back and still stay amongst the ranks. Yes, you would get even more by virtue of join date, i dont have a problem with that, you joined when you joined so you too should receive retroactive AT. but what i do have a problem with is only half of the system is being retro-activated.
am i more clear now? or are there still some holes?
For the sake of your argument, I'd rather see players rewarded by their current loyalty medal progress. Crystal loyalty medalists get 5,000 AT. From that perspective you might have an argument to stand on. But it's not me or players(really) that you need to convince, it's the Devs. This is from experience lol
On a side note: what do you mean by "amongst the ranks"? Are you implying leveling is the only facet of the game? If you did, you'd be dead wrong!
[Signature removed]
“When you tear out a man's tongue, you are not proving him a liar, you're only telling the world that you fear what he might say.” -GRRM
#325
fs_gravely
Posted 10 March 2010 - 05:57
On a side note: what do you mean by "amongst the ranks"? Are you implying leveling is the only facet of the game? If you did, you'd be dead wrong!
Based on his input in other threads, yes, he does imply that :shock:
#326
fs_tejinashi
Posted 10 March 2010 - 06:00
The new feature is a nice one, with those killer potions, but what I would like to see is a crazy, high level librarian potion in there. Can I get an amen?
Amen!!
#327
Posted 10 March 2010 - 06:29
However, I would like to see some pots for PvPers, inventors and other game aspects besides leveling. Some lower level options for people with less stam would also be nice.
#328
fs_theoryman
Posted 10 March 2010 - 06:31
I would also advise anyone reading this, with not that much maximum stamina, to wait until you you have a couple day's worth of stamina before getting these potions.
Personally, I'm going to find Xinderoth more fun with the light foot potion, when I get there, so thanks HCS.
#329
Posted 10 March 2010 - 09:09
Thanks for this latest upgrade.
I've levelled last night with the LF, UB & Doubler buffs.
I used 31k stam, did a full 10 levels, with one fully empowered relic, witherpot, and 4 quests.
(I did notice a strange bug which I have to check in logs, involved sudden 10hits to kill, without any reason whatsoever, with Doub1200 that means a 250-300 stam loss, and would have countered any LF gain)
I would say the LF influences little enough in levelling for it to be usefull, but not overpowering, as I calculated the lvl 175 to be about 1% actual saving with the doubler 750, it's possibly about 3-4% with LF1200 & DO x25. It still cost me about 3k per level. However it will be great for Titanhunts, SE-hunting, and will make me go back and do the last 3 awfull inventing quests i gave up on.
The doubler 1200 makes it possible for snails like me to get through stam without having to worry about the short potions running out (and that's with 13k max stam).
The only one I'd like to see brought down is the UB200. Crystalline should break, and even with UB190, and 175 on some titanhunts, my Volkers is still on 105/160 after 90 levels of use, so the available UB pots & buffs really are good enough without bringing the UB200 back.
As for new items, I would like to see a BuffMaster Potion, GvG buffs, maybe NMV250, Terrorise, a high Wither, getting the pot from AH can get very frustrating, an EW2000 (not needed for the top guilds holding a few relics, but very helpfull for high levels in smaller or poorer guilds). I'm sure there's been other good proposals
#330
fs_kindral25
Posted 10 March 2010 - 09:39
I don't like that HCS counts loaylty with money . I have been here from the start and still playing the
game . I think playing the game long time shows the loaylty not a fact that someone bought some points .....
#331
Posted 10 March 2010 - 10:04
#332
fs_huberty
Posted 10 March 2010 - 10:35
Was there a discussion in the office something like this perhaps?
a) Crystalline items are becoming stupidly common and guilds now have them fully forged and shared for their members.
a) No they don't because you made that indestructiblity potion for the damn arena *throughs donut in b's general direction*
a) Sigh. Oh ok just what is it with you and those crystaline items? Oh nevermind can we just get rid of those UB200 potions then and replace them all with 190's.
a) What why would we do that - oh well at least they will be much less floating around all be it a very high price.
some months pass.....
a) Excellent let's hear it.
a) Sounds good so far, continue.
a) Like it, like it. OK and what do they do with the points?
a) Ok such as?
a) Excellent players loved the dbl1200 tell you what for a large number of points how about a 1250LF now something for the inbetween I guess.
a) Lovely what have you got?
a) Nice name what does it give?
a) ARGH - *repeated head slaming on the desk*
#333
fs_ando
Posted 10 March 2010 - 11:13
#334
Posted 10 March 2010 - 11:17
ub 200 great see trouble is these days i dont need it to one hit so i dont need to buy it and i certainly dont need to forge it having ub 200 gives me an option to use it and pay for the right to protect it. simple as that if i cant protect it i wont use it.
And light foot se hunters will be happy and powerlevellers.
awesome work cows.
#335
fs_grantslego
Posted 10 March 2010 - 13:25
IMO, cows you just destroyed the game...
More UB 200s? one of my founders has enough points (70,000+) to by 140 of those, making his crystalline... invincible... again
More DB 1200s? my founder can get about 450 of those, which will cut down his repair costs and hunt time.
and of course LF 1250, my founder can get 100 of those almost, which, means he uses absolutely no stam walking around for 100 hunts...
What does this mean???
More gold, yes regardless of them being bound
Higher max stam, less hunt times, and less activity time.
And of course, sky high FSP prices...
If you are crediting others with loyalty points from past transactions, then why not past loyalty? will i get points from the past year and a half i have been playing?
Okay Mr. Legomania -- if Fallen Sword Point (FSP) prices INCREASE as a result of this... then you are an idiot. And, so is everyone else that falls for any crap along those lines.
Not paying for LightFoot (which most folks charge in FSP to buff) -- will mean a DROP in FSP prices -- as people won't be paying others in FSP in order to buy buffs..
and "Doubler" market? seriously? you must be joking...
It is sad that you don't yet understand the game mechanics at your level.
I will address this first:
That is not keeping or getting rid of FSP, that is trading them, which does nothing to the economy of the game...Not paying for LightFoot (which most folks charge in FSP to buff) -- will mean a DROP in FSP prices -- as people won't be paying others in FSP in order to buy buffs..
1. Lightfoot potion-less walking stamina is spent, meaning more stamina to kill= more gold and xp (and overall faster leveling)
2. DB potion- higher doubler, less required walking= more hunting stam and more gold, xp, and faster leveling
3. UB potion-currently crystalline is worthless, adding this, only makes it even more worthless and just a bother, it cuts down on repair cost, which brings even more gold into the game...
#336
fs_hyoniin
Posted 10 March 2010 - 13:50
IMO, cows you just destroyed the game...
More UB 200s? one of my founders has enough points (70,000+) to by 140 of those, making his crystalline... invincible... again
More DB 1200s? my founder can get about 450 of those, which will cut down his repair costs and hunt time.
and of course LF 1250, my founder can get 100 of those almost, which, means he uses absolutely no stam walking around for 100 hunts...
What does this mean???
More gold, yes regardless of them being bound
Higher max stam, less hunt times, and less activity time.
And of course, sky high FSP prices...
If you are crediting others with loyalty points from past transactions, then why not past loyalty? will i get points from the past year and a half i have been playing?
Okay Mr. Legomania -- if Fallen Sword Point (FSP) prices INCREASE as a result of this... then you are an idiot. And, so is everyone else that falls for any crap along those lines.
Not paying for LightFoot (which most folks charge in FSP to buff) -- will mean a DROP in FSP prices -- as people won't be paying others in FSP in order to buy buffs..
and "Doubler" market? seriously? you must be joking...
It is sad that you don't yet understand the game mechanics at your level.
I will address this first:That is not keeping or getting rid of FSP, that is trading them, which does nothing to the economy of the game...Not paying for LightFoot (which most folks charge in FSP to buff) -- will mean a DROP in FSP prices -- as people won't be paying others in FSP in order to buy buffs..
1. Lightfoot potion-less walking stamina is spent, meaning more stamina to kill= more gold and xp (and overall faster leveling)
2. DB potion- higher doubler, less required walking= more hunting stam and more gold, xp, and faster leveling
3. UB potion-currently crystalline is worthless, adding this, only makes it even more worthless and just a bother, it cuts down on repair cost, which brings even more gold into the game...
Ok, first things first...how does the presence of UB200 make crystalline worthless? For those that use the gear it will certainly come in handy (market effects of the indestructible gear aside) I know a few levels where the red spine gear has come in handy and a high level UB potion is nice when it comes to the red spine amulet, given that it only has 50 max durability. Secondly, this is going to have the same effects as the scavenging potions had. Yes, some people can afford hundreds of potions with the points that they got for donating BUT eventually they will run down. Given that it takes 100 days of logging in to get one UB200 potion from the rewards list or $25 donated I don't see that UB200 will cause any great upset by being in the potion lists. At most it will slow down the rate of decline in spine gear, but what a lot of people don't realize is that those points people have are going to be divided among potions, especially when the list of potions is increased as the cows are talking about doing, so that effectively decreases the number of UB200 potions that this will introduce. Additionally, with the set-up the way it is with the potions being bound it limits the effect of the potions on the game's market. This is because, as you have pointed out, not everyone uses spine gear, therefore not everyone will be using the UB200 potions. When they were present in the scavenging caves those that use the gear were able to use the potions when they found them !!!BUT!!! those that did not use the gear were able to sell the potions when they found them and that produced a greater negative effect than the simple use of the potions. It effectively boosted the number of UB200 potions so that there was no real associated cost with using crystalline gear.
#337
Posted 10 March 2010 - 15:07
I thought it could've been the server I was on, but I logged in this morning and it's even worse. And it's not my connection because every site is working just fine
#338
Posted 10 March 2010 - 15:22
Ok, first things first...how does the presence of UB200 make crystalline worthless? For those that use the gear it will certainly come in handy (market effects of the indestructible gear aside) I know a few levels where the red spine gear has come in handy and a high level UB potion is nice when it comes to the red spine amulet, given that it only has 50 max durability. Secondly, this is going to have the same effects as the scavenging potions had. Yes, some people can afford hundreds of potions with the points that they got for donating BUT eventually they will run down. Given that it takes 100 days of logging in to get one UB200 potion from the rewards list or $25 donated I don't see that UB200 will cause any great upset by being in the potion lists. At most it will slow down the rate of decline in spine gear, but what a lot of people don't realize is that those points people have are going to be divided among potions, especially when the list of potions is increased as the cows are talking about doing, so that effectively decreases the number of UB200 potions that this will introduce. Additionally, with the set-up the way it is with the potions being bound it limits the effect of the potions on the game's market. This is because, as you have pointed out, not everyone uses spine gear, therefore not everyone will be using the UB200 potions. When they were present in the scavenging caves those that use the gear were able to use the potions when they found them !!!BUT!!! those that did not use the gear were able to sell the potions when they found them and that produced a greater negative effect than the simple use of the potions. It effectively boosted the number of UB200 potions so that there was no real associated cost with using crystalline gear.
You based that argument on the fact that everyone have less AT than the amount required to get the UB200, but there are plenty of people who have 10 of thousands of AT point which they can spent on getting all 3 potions pretty easily.
Also, Using the red spine ammy argument, lets say that you lose 1 durability for every 2 fights, this mean that with UB 190, you would lose .05 durability/2 fights or 1 durability every 40 fights. Meaning that after 2000 fights or so, the ammy is destroyed. Now lets say that you use UB 200. After 2000 fights you would still have your ammy at 50 durability, while it should have been destroyed. This mean that instead of the item being taken out of comission, and you having to buy a new one to use, it stays in play for you to use. This on a large scale means that instead of 50 ammy removed every month or so, none is removed, and the market is flooded with supplies from when scaving is active resulting in a drop in price of the items.
Furthermore, since most people forged/craft the ammy, thats 10 FSP + 232500 gold being taken out for every FFed, and depending on the craft, 3-5 FSP taken out. Now multiply that by 50 or so, and you see how it effectively increase the gold - FSP trade. This is just one example of a lower level items, now imagine if its the octo spine set or the volkner set.
Also of note, using UB 200 change the cost of repair from xxx to 0, essentially eliminating a small, but still useful gold sink.
dragon1234 - Ranger - lv 45
NoExercise - Tank - lv 45
DragonStorage - Storage - lv 13
#339
Posted 10 March 2010 - 18:55
My only complaint: if I'd KNOWN we would be getting THIS I wouldn't still be carrying santork stockings from Christmas. :mrgreen:
#340
fs_kirst
Posted 10 March 2010 - 19:14
Tis a great update. I do have to agree with some others though.
Was there a discussion in the office something like this perhaps?
a) Crystalline items are becoming stupidly common and guilds now have them fully forged and shared for their members.Yes but they need replacing.
a) No they don't because you made that indestructiblity potion for the damn arena *throughs donut in b's general direction*Oh yeah sorry about that didn't really think of the possible breaking of the mechanics we had set in place. Hmm lets remove it and change it to 190.
a) Sigh. Oh ok just what is it with you and those crystaline items? Oh nevermind can we just get rid of those UB200 potions then and replace them all with 190's.Erm no we let people make profits on the black market we will tell them what they can do and they can horde them and sell them and let others buy the new 190's.
a) What why would we do that - oh well at least they will be much less floating around all be it a very high price.
some months pass.....I have a great idea for the game....
a) Excellent let's hear it.How about a loyalty type scheme.
a) Sounds good so far, continue.Ok well people who donate get points say 20 to the $ and people just logging in get points say 5 a day that way everyone eventually gets something for nothing.
a) Like it, like it. OK and what do they do with the points?Thinking potions.
a) Ok such as?Well the new year doublers went down a storm so how about new ones of those. Also how about a lightfoot potion?
a) Excellent players loved the dbl1200 tell you what for a large number of points how about a 1250LF now something for the inbetween I guess.Already have it done.
a) Lovely what have you got?Everlasting potion
a) Nice name what does it give?UB200
a) ARGH - *repeated head slaming on the desk*
Genius.
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