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Okay, can we really look at XP loss from PvP?


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#601 abhorrence

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 04:49

So then, I ask you. How much time do you want tied up with this? How long do you realistically expect it to take until a "happy medium" is met?

I understand it is an important change, but the way it is starting to head now is opening a huge can of worms and workload for the coders.


I want a system that has community of players input and is decided upon and oriented by HCS. Once they have their consensus of what they feel it appropriate, taking into consideration the foreseeable future of growth, then implement it. There may be coding issues and that will have to be ironed out.

You're talking to someone that is still working on this:

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OJC-679045: Spell Breaker
26 May 2009 03:54 PM

It's not like I expect it to walk out smoothly, but I am willing to commit some time and energy to helping make it right.

#602 KitiaraLi

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 04:56

So then, I ask you. How much time do you want tied up with this? How long do you realistically expect it to take until a "happy medium" is met?

I understand it is an important change, but the way it is starting to head now is opening a huge can of worms and workload for the coders.


It will take the time that is required. Our concern is not whether or not it puts a workload on the ppl getting paid to do it, our concern is having those getting paid, doing their jobs proper.

Besides, the better they do the "first" fix on this, the less they'll need to address it later. What has been suggested so far by Hoof is a patch, which in my book, simply lacks interest, and will only result in continuous threads about fixing the xp loss.

What Hor is simply stating is, since we used to have a scale, where higher levels would take less xp from lower lvls, why not implement that again. This time with a proper formula to do the math on how much XP can be taken by any given player, at any given lvl (while on board). The percentage would be the same for all, but the higher the gab in between the two player battling it out, the more the percentage moves to either taking more, or taking less xp.

And a side note. Those of y'all at a high lvl posting in this thread; Pls, (some of) you do sound very childish at times, asking for advantages all while having egocentric concerns about what YOU could loose. Just stop and think a few mins. The level up points, and the gear you have in your BPs, combined with the buffage you have available by a mere click, is all the advantages you need. Seriously. If that doesn't cut it for you, I will be taking orders on those, who needs teaching in setting up various useful combat sets.

No one can deny that we changed this game and influenced it in such a way that NO ONE could compete with us.. so much so that they changed the rules. ~Abhorrence, chosen founder of Cerulean Sins


#603 evilbry

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 04:59


So then, I ask you. How much time do you want tied up with this? How long do you realistically expect it to take until a "happy medium" is met?

I understand it is an important change, but the way it is starting to head now is opening a huge can of worms and workload for the coders.


I want a system that has community of players input and is decided upon and oriented by HCS. Once they have their consensus of what they feel it appropriate, taking into consideration the foreseeable future of growth, then implement it. There may be coding issues and that will have to be ironed out.

You're talking to someone that is still working on this:

Support Ticket
OJC-679045: Spell Breaker
26 May 2009 03:54 PM

It's not like I expect it to walk out smoothly, but I am willing to commit some time and energy to helping make it right.

What you want, and what happens in cow country are sadly not the same outcome. Ideally, there would be robust regression testing and focus groups. Rather it's come to a point where changes are rushed out to appease a couple of noisy people.

What you want, is what is considered best practice for a business, however this doesn't often fall in line with the apparent business direction of HCS.

This is where my concern comes in. I would rather see a change put in that offered a somewhat workable baseline which isn't open to significant abuse or exploits and use that as your point to work from, rather than trying to be fancy and hammer 20 nails at once with one small hammer. We have seen how bad things can go based on past (and recent)updates. Given it's impact on _all_ players, reduce the risk, see how it plays, then take constructive input from there.

We have to remember that we are the beta testers for every change that comes out whether we want to or not. Addressing this in a structured way is only best for both the players, the game and HCS.

#604 abhorrence

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 05:02

you leave the low levels alone, which is where the activity of PvP is the highest..its high for a reason...then you help out the higher levels by giving the ability to think about casual pvp.



Close approximate # of 100 stams needed to take 5 levels on the bounty board with the current system:

Level 50 175 X 100 stam hits
Level 100 93 X 100 stam hits
Level 150 71 X 100 stam hits

While I like your last post and agree with most of it I think we need to take a look at many aspects of this. A fix % is just too simplistic an answer to solve this. There needs to be other factors taken into account. Level 1500 players, level 5 players. Trying to force the same fixed % onto both I don't think is the answer.

#605 Mister Doom

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 05:02

I'd like to know why lower levels should take more from higher levels than vice versa? Exactly what is wrong with a flat rate across all levels?

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#606 RebornJedi

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 05:06

the way and possibilities xp loss can occur need to be looked into as well to stop abuse..


Like posting bounties and casting deflect on them?


more like attacking over and over again for xp loss when you know i can't take xp when i attack back..and when i attack back when i can take xp, you post a bounty and have your guild fight their fight for them when they know i can do nothing against them but post bounties(got to love supporting one kill bounties :P)..maybe thats why you want to keep the xp loss % at a good amount so your guild can continue to throw their weight around..those thick heads and heavy fists have got to do alot for the fear factor :)

*shakes head* sorry...i was drifting towards the dark side of the force..wont happen again ;)

my quote has nothing to do with deflect but the ability to drop players levels even when you don't care for yours..been over this subject/possibility already a handful of times..

if your Actual Level is five levels below your Virtual Level, then you have to level back up to the 5-/+ range of your VL to have the ability to take xp from other players off the board(or you can do a Player Reset ;) ).. you can still attack for gold and pvp rating if the target's VL is 5-/+ away from your Virtual Level, you just can't take xp.

xp loss should occur no matter if you are - or + of the target's level(something that needs to happen)..the attacker's Virtual Level has to be below the max of 5 levels above the targets Virtual Level to destroy their xp ..so im level 10(1% into the level) and your 5(also 1% into the level)..i can attack you but i can't take xp..if you were level 9(1% in) and i was 10(also 1% in), i could attack you till you were level 5(1% into the level) but then i wouldn't take anymore xp below that point.


 


#607 abhorrence

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 05:15

I'd like to know why lower levels should take more from higher levels than vice versa?


I feel a lower level exhibiting the skill required to kill a higher level should take more exp for more effort.

Exactly what is wrong with a flat rate across all levels?


Volume of hitters at lower levels.

#608 Mister Doom

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 05:17

Why does the amount a player can take have to depend on their level? If they want exp taken at all then it connects pvp directly with levelling. This has to work both ways, levelling makes you stronger, not weaker. High levels should by normal logic hit lower levels harder, not fairy tap them.

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#609 KitiaraLi

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 05:18

I'd like to know why lower levels should take more from higher levels than vice versa? Exactly what is wrong with a flat rate across all levels?


Do you have any idea what it would take for a lvl 200 player to clear your bounty?
Do you know how easy it would be for you to clear a lvl 200 bounty?

No one can deny that we changed this game and influenced it in such a way that NO ONE could compete with us.. so much so that they changed the rules. ~Abhorrence, chosen founder of Cerulean Sins


#610 Mister Doom

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 05:19

I'd like to know why lower levels should take more from higher levels than vice versa? Exactly what is wrong with a flat rate across all levels?


Do you have any idea what it would take for a lvl 200 player to clear your bounty?
Do you know how easy it would be for you to clear a lvl 200 bounty?


Thats one of the benefits of putting in all the effort to level up. As you very well know.

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#611 RebornJedi

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 05:19

Do you know how easy it would be for you to clear a lvl 200 bounty?


depending on the amount of bounty hunters trying to complete the bounties..with lower xp loss, this will increase

 


#612 abhorrence

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 05:26

Why does the amount a player can take have to depend on their level? If they want exp taken at all then it connects pvp directly with levelling. This has to work both ways, levelling makes you stronger, not weaker. High levels should by normal logic hit lower levels harder, not fairy tap them.


Because it's not easy for a low level player to kill a high level player.
For a low level player to even hit you, you have to be bountable.
If you have done something to get yourself bountied then you should be prepared for that event
If you as a high level player wear appropriate gear considering you were involved in a act that might get you bountied then you will be extremely hard for lower level players to kill.

No by logic the game should protect lower levels from higher levels. Why would the game allow a higher level player to completely punish a lower level player with huge chunks of exp taken away?

#613 KitiaraLi

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 05:26

I'd like to know why lower levels should take more from higher levels than vice versa? Exactly what is wrong with a flat rate across all levels?


Do you have any idea what it would take for a lvl 200 player to clear your bounty?
Do you know how easy it would be for you to clear a lvl 200 bounty?


Thats one of the benefits of putting in all the effort to level up. As you very well know.


Goodie, then you do understand the fact that you already have huge advantages, and will stop asking for the Win button in PvP 8)

No one can deny that we changed this game and influenced it in such a way that NO ONE could compete with us.. so much so that they changed the rules. ~Abhorrence, chosen founder of Cerulean Sins


#614 Mister Doom

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 05:29

Why does the amount a player can take have to depend on their level? If they want exp taken at all then it connects pvp directly with levelling. This has to work both ways, levelling makes you stronger, not weaker. High levels should by normal logic hit lower levels harder, not fairy tap them.


Because it's not easy for a low level player to kill a high level player.
For a low level player to even hit you, you have to be bountable.
If you have done something to get yourself bountied then you should be prepared for that event
If you as a high level player wear appropriate gear considering you were involved in a act that might get you bountied then you will be extremely hard for lower level players to kill.

No by logic the game should protect lower levels from higher levels. Why would the game allow a higher level player to completely punish a lower level player with huge chunks of exp taken away?


It shouldn't. It should take exactly the same % of exp away as a lower level hitting a higher level. If a lower level wants to test their game knowledge by taken on a higher level then thats fine. The fact that they can accomplish this is testament to their skills and this is reward enough.

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#615 Mister Doom

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 05:31

Goodie, then you do understand the fact that you already have huge advantages, and will stop asking for the Win button in PvP 8)


It's not a win button, in fact it's taking away a huge flaw. The advantages a higher level has are all earned. If a pvp'ers wants it 'easy' like you say they can also level up to get access to these benefits can they not?

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#616 abhorrence

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 05:31

It shouldn't. It should take exactly the same % of exp away as a lower level hitting a higher level. If a lower level wants to test their game knowledge by taken on a higher level then thats fine. The fact that they can accomplish this is testament to their skills and this is reward enough.


We're now again talking about opinion, and again I disagree.

#617 abhorrence

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 05:33

It's not a win button, in fact it's taking away a huge flaw. The advantages a higher level has are all earned. If a pvp'ers wants it 'easy' like you say they can also level up to get access to these benefits can they not?


The higher level players have the power and strength, it's up to the game to protect the lower levels from these much more powerful players.

#618 abhorrence

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 05:35

If a pvp'ers wants it 'easy' like you say they can also level up to get access to these benefits can they not?


Wouldn't that make them levelers and not pvpers?

#619 Mister Doom

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 05:35


It's not a win button, in fact it's taking away a huge flaw. The advantages a higher level has are all earned. If a pvp'ers wants it 'easy' like you say they can also level up to get access to these benefits can they not?


The higher level players have the power and strength, it's up to the game to protect the lower levels from these much more powerful players.


Why do they need protecting? Like it has been said, they only time any interaction can even occur is on the BB and in that case this 'punishment' is deserved. Right?

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#620 Mister Doom

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 05:36

If a pvp'ers wants it 'easy' like you say they can also level up to get access to these benefits can they not?


Wouldn't that make them levelers and not pvpers?


Indeed it would, temporarily. In order for them to gain the gear/strength/magic. Or do you perhaps believe that level shouldn't matter?

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