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Okay, can we really look at XP loss from PvP?


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#621 fs_regnier7

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 05:38

I hate to say this.... but I'll have to agree with Doom on those points he just made....

#622 Mister Doom

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 05:40

:shock: Really Reg? :oops: Gimme a hug? :P

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#623 KitiaraLi

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 05:41

Why do they need protecting? Like it has been said, they only time any interaction can even occur is on the BB and in that case this 'punishment' is deserved. Right?


Not protecting those at a lower lvl, who do have PVP "incidents" occur rather frequently, will only scare 'em outta the game, and by this, we all loose.

Being lvl 900 and hammering down a lvl 200 is unfair any which way U bend it. The lvl 200 has no chance in matching any stats provided... heck, at my lvl I can muster up a bunch of setups, that will cover all the stats a lvl 400ish can muster, so I can hit on the bounty without even bothering to check my opponents setup.

No one can deny that we changed this game and influenced it in such a way that NO ONE could compete with us.. so much so that they changed the rules. ~Abhorrence, chosen founder of Cerulean Sins


#624 abhorrence

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 05:41

Indeed it would, temporarily.


Temporarily? Isn't leveling a full time occupation for the people at EOC?

Or do you perhaps believe that level shouldn't matter?


Normally I have an ENORMOUS amount of respect for you Doom, but I certainly do not appreciate you putting words in my mouth.

#625 Mister Doom

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 05:44


Why do they need protecting? Like it has been said, they only time any interaction can even occur is on the BB and in that case this 'punishment' is deserved. Right?


Not protecting those at a lower lvl, who do have PVP "incidents" occur rather frequently, will only scare 'em outta the game, and by this, we all loose.

Being lvl 900 and hammering down a lvl 200 is unfair any which way U bend it. The lvl 200 has no chance in matching any stats provided... heck, at my lvl I can muster up a bunch of setups, that will cover all the stats a lvl 400ish can muster, so I can hit on the bounty without even bothering to check my opponents setup.


And once again I must reiterate, you have earned this advantage by going through the games system of growth.

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#626 Mister Doom

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 05:45


Indeed it would, temporarily.


Temporarily? Isn't leveling a full time occupation for the people at EOC?

Or do you perhaps believe that level shouldn't matter?


Normally I have an ENORMOUS amount of respect for you Doom, but I certainly do not appreciate you putting words in my mouth.


Sorry, I'm not trying to put words into your mouth, just trying to understand your point of view here. I really don't though I'm afraid. And of course levelling is a full time job at EOC, it's not like a PvP'er would have to choose this path now though is it? :?

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#627 SgtDrunkie

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 05:47

Umm... dosent it cost alot of bounty tickets to take a bounty on a player alot lower in levels than you? So, theres really not going to be many high leveled players beating on the low leveled ones.
Also, if the exp loss is fixed mightn't more high leveled players try out PvP, leading to more high leveled bounties for the high level players to take?

Its really late, so scooze me if that makes no sence.

#628 fs_regnier7

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 05:47

I also see the lack of players able to hit/clear/delevel a higher level player as a sort of balance for the larger amounts of stam it takes to level up there, if that makes sense. *shrugs*

#629 abhorrence

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 05:48

Umm... dosent it cost alot of bounty tickets to take a bounty on a player alot lower in levels than you? So, theres really not going to be many high leveled players beating on the low leveled ones.
Also, if the exp loss is fixed mightn't more high leveled players try out PvP, leading to more high leveled bounties for the high level players to take?

Its really late, so scooze me if that makes no sence.


Why do low level players need to be punished so this can happen?

#630 fs_regnier7

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 05:50

Umm... dosent it cost alot of bounty tickets to take a bounty on a player alot lower in levels than you? So, theres really not going to be many high leveled players beating on the low leveled ones.
Also, if the exp loss is fixed mightn't more high leveled players try out PvP, leading to more high leveled bounties for the high level players to take?

Its really late, so scooze me if that makes no sence.


Why do low level players need to be punished so this can happen?



I don't have a problem with it.... if Doom wanted to waste a whole FSP to beat up on me witn his uber gear AND risk being bountied himself.... *shrugs*

#631 KitiaraLi

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 05:52


Why do they need protecting? Like it has been said, they only time any interaction can even occur is on the BB and in that case this 'punishment' is deserved. Right?


Not protecting those at a lower lvl, who do have PVP "incidents" occur rather frequently, will only scare 'em outta the game, and by this, we all loose.

Being lvl 900 and hammering down a lvl 200 is unfair any which way U bend it. The lvl 200 has no chance in matching any stats provided... heck, at my lvl I can muster up a bunch of setups, that will cover all the stats a lvl 400ish can muster, so I can hit on the bounty without even bothering to check my opponents setup.


And once again I must reiterate, you have earned this advantage by going through the games system of growth.


True, to a point. Most of the bounties I clear, is ppl below my lvl (for obvious reasons) and it actually saddens me at times, that I have to eat the amounts of xp I do. Not because I don't feel they deserve being "punished" (most be on board for doing something) but simply because I leave the victim without any true chance of defending her(him)self ... and where is the fun in that? I love clearing 400+ players, since they actually have a chance of shifting gear (suicide setups admitted) at the last sec, which could potentially beat me.

I do understand where you're coming from though, having been a leveler myself. I know what line of thoughts go with that, and that is all about massing up enough stats to crush any critter into the ground. PvP however, is not just that!

...and basically I don't think that being at EOC should be = being able to pummel all below.

No one can deny that we changed this game and influenced it in such a way that NO ONE could compete with us.. so much so that they changed the rules. ~Abhorrence, chosen founder of Cerulean Sins


#632 Mister Doom

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 05:54

Umm... dosent it cost alot of bounty tickets to take a bounty on a player alot lower in levels than you? So, theres really not going to be many high leveled players beating on the low leveled ones.
Also, if the exp loss is fixed mightn't more high leveled players try out PvP, leading to more high leveled bounties for the high level players to take?

Its really late, so scooze me if that makes no sence.


Why do low level players need to be punished so this can happen?



I don't have a problem with it.... if Doom wanted to waste a whole FSP to beat up on me witn his uber gear AND risk being bountied himself.... *shrugs*


Exactly Reg.

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#633 Mister Doom

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 05:55

True, to a point. Most of the bounties I clear, is ppl below my lvl (for obvious reasons) and it actually saddens me at times, that I have to eat the amounts of xp I do. Not because I don't feel they deserve being "punished" (most be on board for doing something) but simply because I leave the victim without any true chance of defending her(him)self ... and where is the fun in that? I love clearing 400+ players, since they actually have a chance of shifting gear (suicide setups admitted) at the last sec, which could potentially beat me.

I do understand where you're coming from though, having been a leveler myself. I know what line of thoughts go with that, and that is all about massing up enough stats to crush any critter into the ground. PvP however, is not just that!

...and basically I don't think that being at EOC should be = being able to pummel all below.


The mechanics for both systems work the same, you level up to gain strength. I see no reason at all why this should be any different in pve to PvP.

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#634 abhorrence

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 05:57

Close approximate # of 100 stams needed to take 5 levels on the bounty board with the current system:

Level 50 175 X 100 stam hits
Level 100 93 X 100 stam hits
Level 150 71 X 100 stam hits


This is what HCS made exp loss for low levels. The last exp change was made to do exactly this. Now people are asking to make it a set % across the board so that exp loss at high levels can be fixed.


Hoof is it your opinion that lower level exp loss is where HCS wants it right now and that only high level exp needs to be addressed?


This needs to be answered before any other suggestions can be made. If he feels exp loss at lower levels is appropriate we are barking up the wrong tree.


This was 9 hours ago, and nothing has changed.

#635 KitiaraLi

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 05:57

I don't have a problem with it.... if Doom wanted to waste a whole FSP to beat up on me witn his uber gear AND risk being bountied himself.... *shrugs*


The gods knows I have done so many times :roll:
Doesn't chance the fact, that it's easy for me to clear you, and you would stand a very hard time trying to clear me.. which is why we keep saying it shouldn't cost you as much xp if I clear you, but you oughta take more xp from me if actually managing to hit me. The harder the effort, the "better" the result 8)

No one can deny that we changed this game and influenced it in such a way that NO ONE could compete with us.. so much so that they changed the rules. ~Abhorrence, chosen founder of Cerulean Sins


#636 Mister Doom

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 05:59


I don't have a problem with it.... if Doom wanted to waste a whole FSP to beat up on me witn his uber gear AND risk being bountied himself.... *shrugs*


The gods knows I have done so many times :roll:
Doesn't chance the fact, that it's easy for me to clear you, and you would stand a very hard time trying to clear me.. which is why we keep saying it shouldn't cost you as much xp if I clear you, but you oughta take more xp from me if actually managing to hit me. The harder the effort, the "better" the result 8)


Not so, that would only apply if he was actually 'gaining' something. He is not.

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#637 Mister Doom

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 06:00


Close approximate # of 100 stams needed to take 5 levels on the bounty board with the current system:

Level 50 175 X 100 stam hits
Level 100 93 X 100 stam hits
Level 150 71 X 100 stam hits


This is what HCS made exp loss for low levels. The last exp change was made to do exactly this. Now people are asking to make it a set % across the board so that exp loss at high levels can be fixed.


Hoof is it your opinion that lower level exp loss is where HCS wants it right now and that only high level exp needs to be addressed?


This needs to be answered before any other suggestions can be made. If he feels exp loss at lower levels is appropriate we are barking up the wrong tree.


This was 9 hours ago, and nothing has changed.


Changing the system to a flat rate with lowered exp loss is exactly what we are talking about.

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#638 fs_regnier7

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 06:00


I don't have a problem with it.... if Doom wanted to waste a whole FSP to beat up on me witn his uber gear AND risk being bountied himself.... *shrugs*


The gods knows I have done so many times :roll:
Doesn't chance the fact, that it's easy for me to clear you, and you would stand a very hard time trying to clear me.. which is why we keep saying it shouldn't cost you as much xp if I clear you, but you oughta take more xp from me if actually managing to hit me. The harder the effort, the "better" the result 8)



The fact that I cleared you and got that reward..... would be enough for me. Don't give a damn about YOUR Xp loss. :D

#639 abhorrence

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 06:03


I don't have a problem with it.... if Doom wanted to waste a whole FSP to beat up on me witn his uber gear AND risk being bountied himself.... *shrugs*


The gods knows I have done so many times :roll:
Doesn't chance the fact, that it's easy for me to clear you, and you would stand a very hard time trying to clear me.. which is why we keep saying it shouldn't cost you as much xp if I clear you, but you oughta take more xp from me if actually managing to hit me. The harder the effort, the "better" the result 8)


Not so, that would only apply if he was actually 'gaining' something. He is not.


You kill a level 500 creature while you are level 900 you gain less exp. You somehow managed to be in a level 950 zone and kill a creature when you are level 900 you gain more exp then a 900 should

You are level 900 you kill a level 500 player you take less exp. You are level 900 you kill a level 950 you take more exp.

#640 Kontiki

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 06:04

I tend to agree with the set % of a level here. A lower level can gain back 5 levels with a small amount of stamina compared to higher levels and will still be in advantage.

I'm hesitant to the thought of linking level difference to the amount of XP loss, as it works more like a punishment to the target for being cleared by a lower level than a "reward" for the hunter. Higher levels and EOC players report the current XP loss rate as part of the reason they don't engage in PvP. If we want the higher level players to participate, the last thing we need is to make sure the XP loss rate stays because most hunters available to clear their bounties are 300-500 levels behind content..

I would rather see level difference linked to prestige. For every 100 levels above you gain +1 prestige per kill, any targets more than 100 levels below you you gain no prestige.


My thoughts,
KJ


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