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Okay, can we really look at XP loss from PvP?


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#641 abhorrence

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 06:04

Changing the system to a flat rate with lowered exp loss is exactly what we are talking about.


You are talking about multiplying lower levels exp loss by 7 times in some cases.

#642 Mister Doom

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 06:05

You kill a level 500 creature while you are level 900 you gain less exp. You somehow managed to be in a level 950 zone and kill a creature when you are level 900 you gain more exp then a 900 should

You are level 900 you kill a level 500 player you take less exp. You are level 900 you kill a level 950 you take more exp.


Like I previously said. That only applies if you are gaining something. What does a lower level 'gain' by defeating a higher level except pride?

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#643 Mister Doom

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 06:07


Changing the system to a flat rate with lowered exp loss is exactly what we are talking about.


You are talking about multiplying lower levels exp loss by 7 times in some cases.


Why should they be exempt from the system? Besides that multiplication is then offset by the reduction in the ridiculous amounts lost by higher levels bringing a balance to the system.

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#644 fs_regnier7

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 06:07

I tend to agree with the set % of a level here. A lower level can gain back 5 levels with a small amount of stamina compared to higher levels and will still be in advantage.

I'm hesitant to the thought of linking level difference to the amount of XP loss, as it works more like a punishment to the target for being cleared by a lower level than a "reward" for the hunter. Higher levels and EOC players report the current XP loss rate as part of the reason they don't engage in PvP. If we want the higher level players to participate, the last thing we need is to make sure the XP loss rate stays because most hunters available to clear their bounties are 300-500 levels behind content..

I would rather see level difference linked to prestige. For every 100 levels above you gain +1 prestige per kill, any targets more than 100 levels below you you gain no prestige.


My thoughts,
KJ



Love this idea! :D

#645 abhorrence

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 06:08

I tend to agree with the set % of a level here. A lower level can gain back 5 levels with a small amount of stamina compared to higher levels and will still be in advantage.

I'm hesitant to the thought of linking level difference to the amount of XP loss, as it works more like a punishment to the target for being cleared by a lower level than a "reward" for the hunter. Higher levels and EOC players report the current XP loss rate as part of the reason they don't engage in PvP.


There is no reason to effect lower level players to lower the exp loss of higher level players.

#646 Mister Doom

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 06:08

I tend to agree with the set % of a level here. A lower level can gain back 5 levels with a small amount of stamina compared to higher levels and will still be in advantage.

I'm hesitant to the thought of linking level difference to the amount of XP loss, as it works more like a punishment to the target for being cleared by a lower level than a "reward" for the hunter. Higher levels and EOC players report the current XP loss rate as part of the reason they don't engage in PvP.


There is no reason to effect lower level players to lower the exp loss of higher level players.


Why not?

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#647 abhorrence

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 06:10



You kill a level 500 creature while you are level 900 you gain less exp. You somehow managed to be in a level 950 zone and kill a creature when you are level 900 you gain more exp then a 900 should

You are level 900 you kill a level 500 player you take less exp. You are level 900 you kill a level 950 you take more exp.


Like I previously said. That only applies if you are gaining something. What does a lower level 'gain' by defeating a higher level except pride?


Gain is from leveling, loss is from pvping. It's a direct correlation.

#648 fs_regnier7

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 06:11

I tend to agree with the set % of a level here. A lower level can gain back 5 levels with a small amount of stamina compared to higher levels and will still be in advantage.

I'm hesitant to the thought of linking level difference to the amount of XP loss, as it works more like a punishment to the target for being cleared by a lower level than a "reward" for the hunter. Higher levels and EOC players report the current XP loss rate as part of the reason they don't engage in PvP.


There is no reason to effect lower level players to lower the exp loss of higher level players.


Why not?



Honestly.... I can steal gold all days or knock off dura all I want and not lose a level from loads of bounties.... they simply aren't a deterrent as they should be. So yeah, not 'punishing' lower levels unless they PvP and get bountied.... but that's what the board is for, no?

#649 YouNoSeeMe

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 06:12

shoot... why not just put a level limit on who can hit who on the bb

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#650 abhorrence

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 06:12

Close approximate # of 100 stams needed to take 5 levels on the bounty board with the current system:

Level 50 175 X 100 stam hits
Level 100 93 X 100 stam hits
Level 150 71 X 100 stam hits


This is what HCS made exp loss for low levels. The last exp change was made to do exactly this.


It was only 6 or 7 posts ago but sure.. I will quote it again for you.

#651 Mister Doom

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 06:13



You kill a level 500 creature while you are level 900 you gain less exp. You somehow managed to be in a level 950 zone and kill a creature when you are level 900 you gain more exp then a 900 should

You are level 900 you kill a level 500 player you take less exp. You are level 900 you kill a level 950 you take more exp.


Like I previously said. That only applies if you are gaining something. What does a lower level 'gain' by defeating a higher level except pride?


Gain is from leveling, loss is from pvping. It's a direct correlation.


Not at all, not unless you were actually earning exp from a pvp hit which you are not.

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#652 Mister Doom

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 06:14


Close approximate # of 100 stams needed to take 5 levels on the bounty board with the current system:

Level 50 175 X 100 stam hits
Level 100 93 X 100 stam hits
Level 150 71 X 100 stam hits


This is what HCS made exp loss for low levels. The last exp change was made to do exactly this.


It was only 6 or 7 posts ago but sure.. I will quote it again for you.


And yet there is this huge thread all about the problems with exp loss. Obviously the change was wrong, no?

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#653 Removed22342

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 06:15

I tend to agree with the set % of a level here. A lower level can gain back 5 levels with a small amount of stamina compared to higher levels and will still be in advantage.

I'm hesitant to the thought of linking level difference to the amount of XP loss, as it works more like a punishment to the target for being cleared by a lower level than a "reward" for the hunter. Higher levels and EOC players report the current XP loss rate as part of the reason they don't engage in PvP. If we want the higher level players to participate, the last thing we need is to make sure the XP loss rate stays because most hunters available to clear their bounties are 300-500 levels behind content..

I would rather see level difference linked to prestige. For every 100 levels above you gain +1 prestige per kill, any targets more than 100 levels below you you gain no prestige.


My thoughts,
KJ


Like this prestige idea, but no gain if 100 levels below? There's not that many level 800+ bounties out there, maybe gain just 1 prestige per bounty kill as minimum and the bonus based on that?

#654 abhorrence

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 06:15

Honestly.... I can steal gold all days or knock off dura all I want and not lose a level from loads of bounties.... they simply aren't a deterrent as they should be. So yeah, not 'punishing' lower levels unless they PvP and get bountied.... but that's what the board is for, no?


The exp loss use to be much much greater for lower levels, it was changed to protect lower level players. Blah blah blah

saying the same thing over and over.

#655 KitiaraLi

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 06:15

Like I previously said. That only applies if you are gaining something. What does a lower level 'gain' by defeating a higher level except pride?


Sometimes it does happen, that a party is being put together on a lower lvl player, and sometimes high lvl players partake in that, hence evoking the "I can't facecrush you, and you cannot do anything about it" stats difference.

The only option to retaliate for the victim is to post a bounty, but since most of the friends/allies of the victim is most likely lower lvls as well, a counter party is gonna be hard to put together.
True, they can eventually take 5, but the high lvl player would have an easier time fending 'em off, all while having her/his high lvl friend clearing the bounty.

That is an unfair advantage, which could be taken care of with the xp loss curve implemented.

No one can deny that we changed this game and influenced it in such a way that NO ONE could compete with us.. so much so that they changed the rules. ~Abhorrence, chosen founder of Cerulean Sins


#656 Kontiki

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 06:15

I tend to agree with the set % of a level here. A lower level can gain back 5 levels with a small amount of stamina compared to higher levels and will still be in advantage.

I'm hesitant to the thought of linking level difference to the amount of XP loss, as it works more like a punishment to the target for being cleared by a lower level than a "reward" for the hunter. Higher levels and EOC players report the current XP loss rate as part of the reason they don't engage in PvP.


There is no reason to effect lower level players to lower the exp loss of higher level players.

XP loss is as ridiculously low at lower levels as it is ridiculously high at higher levels.. It shouldnt take 15-20 players to take 5 levels from anyone.

#657 Mister Doom

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 06:16


Honestly.... I can steal gold all days or knock off dura all I want and not lose a level from loads of bounties.... they simply aren't a deterrent as they should be. So yeah, not 'punishing' lower levels unless they PvP and get bountied.... but that's what the board is for, no?


The exp loss use to be much much greater for lower levels, it was changed to protect lower level players. Blah blah blah

saying the same thing over and over.


Hor you are saying the same thing over and over. Basically you think lowers levels should have some form of magical immunity from exp loss that the rest of the level ranges incur. We do not.

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#658 Kontiki

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 06:17

I tend to agree with the set % of a level here. A lower level can gain back 5 levels with a small amount of stamina compared to higher levels and will still be in advantage.

I'm hesitant to the thought of linking level difference to the amount of XP loss, as it works more like a punishment to the target for being cleared by a lower level than a "reward" for the hunter. Higher levels and EOC players report the current XP loss rate as part of the reason they don't engage in PvP. If we want the higher level players to participate, the last thing we need is to make sure the XP loss rate stays because most hunters available to clear their bounties are 300-500 levels behind content..

I would rather see level difference linked to prestige. For every 100 levels above you gain +1 prestige per kill, any targets more than 100 levels below you you gain no prestige.


My thoughts,
KJ


Like this prestige idea, but no gain if 100 levels below? There's not that many level 800+ bounties out there, maybe gain just 1 prestige per bounty kill as minimum and the bonus based on that?

That could work too, I guess..

#659 abhorrence

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 06:18

And yet there is this huge thread all about the problems with exp loss. Obviously the change was wrong, no?


this thread was started for HIGH level players loosing exp not low level players.


Having been hit recently while banking for a guildmate, the XP loss is truly stupid.

One hit, I lost 3,833,359 experience.

Killing a creature at my level gives an average 2469 XP

Given the XP from killing creatures, to make up the XP loss from ONE hit, I have to hunt 1553 creatures (creature equivalents anyway)

Sure, I can bring that number down by spending FSP and/or stamina on a variety of buffs - but we're still talking something truly disproportionate to recover from the stamina invested in the PvP attack: 100 stamina.

Maybe I can bring the number down to spending only 1000 stamina to recover just the XP loss from a 100 stam attack (nevermind the gold.)

C'mon guys - the formula is really broken at higher levels. Please have a good look at it.



#660 Mister Doom

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 06:19

I tend to agree with the set % of a level here. A lower level can gain back 5 levels with a small amount of stamina compared to higher levels and will still be in advantage.

I'm hesitant to the thought of linking level difference to the amount of XP loss, as it works more like a punishment to the target for being cleared by a lower level than a "reward" for the hunter. Higher levels and EOC players report the current XP loss rate as part of the reason they don't engage in PvP.


There is no reason to effect lower level players to lower the exp loss of higher level players.

XP loss is as ridiculously low at lower levels as it is ridiculously high at higher levels.. It shouldnt take 15-20 players to take 5 levels from anyone.


Exactly!! On the other hand it shouldn't be possible for 3 players to take 5 levels from someone either. This is afterall the ultimate punishment the BB can deliver.. The system is completely out of whack

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