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Okay, can we really look at XP loss from PvP?


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#101 Khanate

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Posted 17 March 2010 - 03:07

Add XP loss when attacking someone below your level..It will end Prestige trading and provide more bounty targets on the BB..As simple as that


Yes, that is vital element of fixing XP loss. Do not forget this HCS if you are reading.

#102 sweetlou

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Posted 17 March 2010 - 06:30

you know why it's traded? fear ;) and lack of actual PvP




Why do you want to make PvP single target GVG? If you want "PvP" with no consequence, just initiate a conflict.Fear of losing xp...hence being afraid of retaliation...I dont wanna lose a level, or i might be bountied :wink: Real PvP'rs don't have any fear. We lose levels..we gain them back.Having no xp loss would promote further trading and make PvP similar to fighting with Styrofoam swords.....yeah thats exciting. :wink:


? dont know what that has to do with my quote..ive only suggested making xp loss a % of the level and having the 'option' to not take xp loss when I attack someone in this thread..

You do have the option to not take xp. Don't attack. Attacks have consequences and those consequences should include losing xp from +/- 5 levels. A flat % of a level for ALL players sounds good, and double on BB of course. The only thing PvP related that should be opted out of is to not play FS.

I've always been an advocate of attackers gaining xp from PvP. Why not? Besides gold, prestige, and abused PvP points they would actually level instead of hovering at the same level in some instances for years.

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#103 SlntScream

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Posted 17 March 2010 - 07:36

There is absolutely no logical NEED for regular PvP attacks to cause XP loss. It doesn't make the game any better.


There's no need for alot of things in FS, should we ask to have them taken away too just because we don't like it?

I am a PvP'er, and being able to take XP as well as lose it, is simply about fun. It's the aspect of the game that myself, and people like me, enjoy most.
coyotik, you said yourself that you are no PvPer, you don't understand it, so please don't try to dictate how it should work.

If you're scared of losing XP, there are measures you can take to make yourself less of a target. And most importantly, don't PvP.

As far as the ladder goes, I'd like to make reference here to Ryozanpaku's counter system. I really hope the cows read and considered this as an alternative.

Back on topic.. it's true that right now low level players are being babied, while high level players are being punished. The problem is not necessarily the numbers, but the balancing scale. So we really do need a fixed amount of XP loss across all levels.

To talk numbers.. I think for on the BB: 2% of a level per 10 stam, 20% per 100 stam. For off the BB: 1% per 10 stam, and 10% per 100 stam. And please let us take XP from players 5 levels below again.

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#104 Removed8950

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Posted 17 March 2010 - 15:44

There is absolutely no logical NEED for regular PvP attacks to cause XP loss. It doesn't make the game any better.


There's no need for alot of things in FS, should we ask to have them taken away too just because we don't like it?

I am a PvP'er, and being able to take XP as well as lose it, is simply about fun. It's the aspect of the game that myself, and people like me, enjoy most.
coyotik, you said yourself that you are no PvPer, you don't understand it, so please don't try to dictate how it should work.

If you're scared of losing XP, there are measures you can take to make yourself less of a target. And most importantly, don't PvP.

As far as the ladder goes, I'd like to make reference here to Ryozanpaku's counter system. I really hope the cows read and considered this as an alternative.

Back on topic.. it's true that right now low level players are being babied, while high level players are being punished. The problem is not necessarily the numbers, but the balancing scale. So we really do need a fixed amount of XP loss across all levels.

To talk numbers.. I think for on the BB: 2% of a level per 10 stam, 20% per 100 stam. For off the BB: 1% per 10 stam, and 10% per 100 stam. And please let us take XP from players 5 levels below again.



+1

Removing the ability to Bounty a PvP Ladder attack is something I've been thinking about. If enough people want it, I don't see why not. It might be a relatively easy tweak, unlike the rest of the suggestions.


#105 fs_kirakina

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Posted 19 March 2010 - 06:39

bump for PvP!

#106 KitiaraLi

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Posted 19 March 2010 - 06:40

+2

No one can deny that we changed this game and influenced it in such a way that NO ONE could compete with us.. so much so that they changed the rules. ~Abhorrence, chosen founder of Cerulean Sins


#107 Ryebred

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Posted 19 March 2010 - 06:54

I personally don't want the people living in "fear" to have a comfort in change in way the system is. PvP is not for the squeamish - I don't think it will improve PvP one bit - in fact I think it will chase away many of the games finest PvPers. Kinda like when Metallica went mainstream - sure they picked up a few million extra listeners due to "softness", but at the same time lost the loyalty of most that made them what they were. Don't sell out on PvP - I think we should be able to do 1k stam hits - spend the stam as chosen for greater result :twisted: Right now 3 players can take 5 from me - I'm fine with that. Why not make it so for all levels - or much closer (same stam being spent) Not easier to regain here then at 25. Let PvP be - can't hang with the risk -then GvG instead. I do think a set % of exp loss is cool for 100 stams, but make it a high exp % taken across the board. Rye's 2 cents

#108 Ryebred

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Posted 19 March 2010 - 07:10

StangValle says: Let me state that I was the one who did the hit that started this thread. Yes, it was a 100 stam. It takes somewhere around 15 million xp to gain a level at 703 so 3.8 million xp from a single 100 stamina hit took about 25% of a level. On the BB with the way things currently are the 100 stamina hit would have taken about 50% of a level. My suggestion has always been 1% of a level per 10 stam off the BB and 2% per 10 stam on the BB. This should be for everyone reguardless of level. Many low level players are untouchable right now since it would take an entire large guild to delevel a low level player. As it stands right now 1 player can take 3-4 levels off a high level player alone. Yes, it would only take 3 players to delevel a person 5 levels on the BB with my numbers, thats a whole lot better than one player being able to take 3-4 levels isn't it? Stang


Perfectly acceptable to me. Make it even for all people. Why muck around and make it complicated.
10 Stam = 1% of a level
100 Stam = 10% of a level

Simple and efficient. Fair to all players.




+1

#109 fs_coyotik

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Posted 19 March 2010 - 09:19

There is no counter-balance in there. As a leveller, I cannot harm the PvPer in his way of having fun, at all. The fact that I level up past you doesn't make you lose more attacks or get less gold from them.


I don't really understand what you mean by "cannot harm the PvPer", you could always retaliate with means provided by the game, bounty board comes to mind (which is why it was introduced I assume but that was before my time =P).


I mean the imbalance between different parts of game. There are several "things" to do to enjoy yourself - and PvP is the only one where you can "reach" out to other areas.

Meaning that with all other areas of the game, the impact of your activities is only restricted to other people who participate in the same activity. The fact that I'm having fun with levelling does not in any way harm PvPers, arena players, SE hunters, potion brewers etc. - the only impact of my actions is direct competition with other levellers.
The same goes to arena players or hunters or brewers - their way of having fun doesn't harm anyone except their direct competition.

This is what I dislike about PvP, especially when coupled with how easy it is for the attackers to win - practically the only defense is "don't be a likely target", but even that sometimes doesn't work, when the attacker decides to hit everyone they can.

Imagine that a leveller could harm a PvPer where it hurts. Imagine that every person that levels above you could "attack you" and steal stamina from you, for example, that they'd be able to burn - and the only retaliation you would have is to lower their PvP rating. It's quite ridiculous idea, but it demonstrates the ridiculousness of the current PvP versus leveller setup, with just switching the roles - giving levellers a way to increase their fun at the expense of PvPers.

#110 Maehdros

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Posted 19 March 2010 - 15:18

bump

#111 KitiaraLi

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Posted 19 March 2010 - 15:19

Looks like the cows have nerfed the xp loss ?

I went up on board, erhm .. again :roll: but my xp loss was way lower than usually. Lost around 2% l per 10stam hit ...

I would really luv a comment from the cows on this. If not, we will have to investigate further 8)

No one can deny that we changed this game and influenced it in such a way that NO ONE could compete with us.. so much so that they changed the rules. ~Abhorrence, chosen founder of Cerulean Sins


#112 Snowy900

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Posted 19 March 2010 - 15:29

i think the 10 stam =1% loss 100stam =10% loss is a great idea, it cant be that hard to implement.

#113 Kevin

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Posted 19 March 2010 - 16:00

I mean the imbalance between different parts of game. There are several "things" to do to enjoy yourself - and PvP is the only one where you can "reach" out to other areas.

Meaning that with all other areas of the game, the impact of your activities is only restricted to other people who participate in the same activity. The fact that I'm having fun with levelling does not in any way harm PvPers, arena players, SE hunters, potion brewers etc. - the only impact of my actions is direct competition with other levellers.
The same goes to arena players or hunters or brewers - their way of having fun doesn't harm anyone except their direct competition.

This is what I dislike about PvP, especially when coupled with how easy it is for the attackers to win - practically the only defense is "don't be a likely target", but even that sometimes doesn't work, when the attacker decides to hit everyone they can.

Imagine that a leveller could harm a PvPer where it hurts. Imagine that every person that levels above you could "attack you" and steal stamina from you, for example, that they'd be able to burn - and the only retaliation you would have is to lower their PvP rating. It's quite ridiculous idea, but it demonstrates the ridiculousness of the current PvP versus leveller setup, with just switching the roles - giving levellers a way to increase their fun at the expense of PvPers.


+1

#114 fs_gravely

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Posted 19 March 2010 - 16:46

+1


You can't even legitimately discuss an area you know something about - Titan hunting. Please stay out of a discussion involving a sector of the game you know exactly nothing about. XP loss is here to stay, thankfully. Either add to the discussion on how to modulate it or go find another Titan thread.

#115 Maehdros

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Posted 19 March 2010 - 17:00

+1


You can't even legitimately discuss an area you know something about - Titan hunting. Please stay out of a discussion involving a sector of the game you know exactly nothing about. XP loss is here to stay, thankfully. Either add to the discussion on how to modulate it or go find another Titan thread.



What Graves said x 10 :wink:

#116 Spitfire666123

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Posted 19 March 2010 - 17:24



There is no counter-balance in there. As a leveller, I cannot harm the PvPer in his way of having fun, at all. The fact that I level up past you doesn't make you lose more attacks or get less gold from them.


I don't really understand what you mean by "cannot harm the PvPer", you could always retaliate with means provided by the game, bounty board comes to mind (which is why it was introduced I assume but that was before my time =P).


I mean the imbalance between different parts of game. There are several "things" to do to enjoy yourself - and PvP is the only one where you can "reach" out to other areas.

Meaning that with all other areas of the game, the impact of your activities is only restricted to other people who participate in the same activity. The fact that I'm having fun with levelling does not in any way harm PvPers, arena players, SE hunters, potion brewers etc. - the only impact of my actions is direct competition with other levellers.
The same goes to arena players or hunters or brewers - their way of having fun doesn't harm anyone except their direct competition.

This is what I dislike about PvP, especially when coupled with how easy it is for the attackers to win - practically the only defense is "don't be a likely target", but even that sometimes doesn't work, when the attacker decides to hit everyone they can.

Imagine that a leveller could harm a PvPer where it hurts. Imagine that every person that levels above you could "attack you" and steal stamina from you, for example, that they'd be able to burn - and the only retaliation you would have is to lower their PvP rating. It's quite ridiculous idea, but it demonstrates the ridiculousness of the current PvP versus leveller setup, with just switching the roles - giving levellers a way to increase their fun at the expense of PvPers.


I disagree with you on several areas of this post:

1. The PvPer/Hunter relationship is fully justified how it is now... Pvper steals from Hunter, Hunter posts PvPer on Bounty Board, where PvPer can lose up to 5 levels, (which in the end, is more of a loss for the PvPer than the hunter will EVER take, considering they never PvP)

2. Being able to steal stam would make the leveler even more 'powerful', and for the sake of losing XP on the BB, i doubt people would 'steal' stam in the first place... not to mention that it would be abused to powerlevel by so many... and HCS doesnt want that :P

3. The Pvper to Leveler relationship is the exact opposite of what you claim it to be... how many levelers have you known to be deleveled for bounty-ing a PvPer?

#117 Bunnybee

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Posted 19 March 2010 - 17:26

"Perfectly acceptable to me. Make it even for all people. Why muck around and make it complicated.
10 Stam = 1% of a level
100 Stam = 10% of a level" <---------- Makes sense to me.

I'd like to point out too, that in my humble opinion, saying that pvp is "easy" is unfair. However it occurs, easy is not the word I'd use. It's not rocket science either, but come on. A little credit. I generally give it where it's due, but I guess not everybody can.

This may not be popular, but I wouldn't mind experience being taken both ways within the 5 level range in regular pvp. I think it would be more fair, actually.

I try to avoid exclusivity. Sometimes that's hard when someone says something you don't like. Just something to think about. :|

#118 RebornJedi

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Posted 19 March 2010 - 17:54

3. The Pvper to Leveler relationship is the exact opposite of what you claim it to be... how many levelers have you known to be deleveled for bounty-ing a PvPer?


handfuls lol

pvpers have the opportunity to destroy what a level worked for, with ease

 


#119 RebornJedi

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Posted 19 March 2010 - 18:00

what are your thoughts on taking away the x2 xp loss from the bounty board if they change xp loss to a flat % rate?

50, 100 hits to take 5 levels if it was 10% level loss per 100 stam..seems fair but if it was x2 on teh bounty board, then it would only take 25 hits :? dont care much for how easy it would be to drop someone 5 levels.

 


#120 KitiaraLi

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Posted 19 March 2010 - 18:24

PvP off board:
10 Stam = 1% of a level
100 Stam = 10% of a level"

PvP on board:
10 Stam = 2% of a level
100 Stam = 20% of a level"

not difficult :P

No one can deny that we changed this game and influenced it in such a way that NO ONE could compete with us.. so much so that they changed the rules. ~Abhorrence, chosen founder of Cerulean Sins



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