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New Titan Changes Proposal.


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Poll: Do you like this idea? (408 member(s) have cast votes)

Do you like this idea?

  1. Voted Yes. (304 votes [64.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 64.00%

  2. Voted No. (171 votes [36.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 36.00%

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#801 Khanate

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Posted 25 April 2010 - 00:23



Fought against TKPs? Or against the time limit suggestion? My only objection to the time limit suggestion was the removal of the direct competition for places on a leaderboard, so it became more like an 'everybody wins' than I would like. I don't think I said anything else in there at all.

Edit: Also, once again the poll was yes/no, and without TKPs included it had to be a no vote!


There would have still been direct competition, thats the sad thing. The titan spawns would have still been at the same rate, you would have still had to run around the map racing other guilds... It would simply have allowed more than ONE GUILD to have access to a drop. Something that obviously the frackers would be dead set against, I just don't understand why YOU would be though..


I want more people to have access to the drop, obviously, because we still haven't been able to acquire them all. However, something in me likes racing across the map with the knowledge that getting there first means something - you beat the other guilds and that has a direct impact on your chances.

In the current system if there were 20 spawns on a spot and 1 guy got 11 and the other 9 due to speed then that relegated the 2nd place guy down the ladder. Under the previous proposal it would just mean the 2nd guy needed to hang around a bit longer to make up the difference, because once Player 1 reached 2500 with his guild he would be off. That's what I meant be competition, sorry if I wasn't clear!


So now one player gets 55% rather than 80-90% and that means less competition? You are really going to have to explain to me this one :shock:

#802 RJEM

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Posted 25 April 2010 - 00:27

And that sytem has proved to be a complete failure for every guild but one for months. Honestly do you think the titan system is fine as it is?


No, absolutely not - but I do like the competition for spots on a ladder aspect - something which the % based TKPs would preserve and extend beyond 5th place. Beating someone to the kill would still have meaning, but many, many more people would be rewarded for their efforts and eventually be able to earn their epics.

You know, I'd potentially be up for scrapping the winning drop altogether and just splitting points by kill %. That way guilds can't secure and leave and have to commit fully to every titan to get maximum benefit. Meh, I haven't thought that through at all but it would certainly be different!

#803 Mister Doom

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Posted 25 April 2010 - 00:30

And that sytem has proved to be a complete failure for every guild but one for months. Honestly do you think the titan system is fine as it is?


No, absolutely not - but I do like the competition for spots on a ladder aspect - something which the % based TKPs would preserve and extend beyond 5th place. Beating someone to the kill would still have meaning, but many, many more people would be rewarded for their efforts and eventually be able to earn their epics.

You know, I'd potentially be up for scrapping the winning drop altogether and just splitting points by kill %. That way guilds can't secure and leave and have to commit fully to every titan to get maximum benefit. Meh, I haven't thought that through at all but it would certainly be different!


Now THAT would be something I could get on board with. Epic items needing a massive amount of accumulated TKP's across numerous titan events.

EnhancedShardoom1-1.gif


#804 RJEM

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Posted 25 April 2010 - 00:35

So now one player gets 55% rather than 80-90% and that means less competition? You are really going to have to explain to me this one :shock:


Not sure I understand the question? I mean that currently being faster at killing has a direct impact on how much reward you get - and the same would be true with TKPs.

However, under the previous timed proposal it wouldn't matter as long as you reached the threshold within the time limit.

#805 RJEM

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Posted 25 April 2010 - 00:40

And that sytem has proved to be a complete failure for every guild but one for months. Honestly do you think the titan system is fine as it is?


No, absolutely not - but I do like the competition for spots on a ladder aspect - something which the % based TKPs would preserve and extend beyond 5th place. Beating someone to the kill would still have meaning, but many, many more people would be rewarded for their efforts and eventually be able to earn their epics.

You know, I'd potentially be up for scrapping the winning drop altogether and just splitting points by kill %. That way guilds can't secure and leave and have to commit fully to every titan to get maximum benefit. Meh, I haven't thought that through at all but it would certainly be different!


Now THAT would be something I could get on board with. Epic items needing a massive amount of accumulated TKP's across numerous titan events.


Thinking some more, I hunted Tsuki solo against FFS recently, 1 on 6, and was happily getting 1/7th of the kills. Assuming 100% of the kills is enough points for 1 drop, I would get a drop after 7 hunts whereas FFS would get it after 1 and a bit hunts. Given they are working harder for kills that would be acceptable.

However, with many more hunters out there you would never get more than 20-30% of the kills, resulting in more hunts per titan drop, and a distribution of drops according to effort. I think I actually like this idea more than I thought.

Also, points would be titan specific, so Tsuki buys Tsuki etc.

Points in favour:

No need for lockout as every guild will have a chance at drops over time.
Fair - your reward is directly proportional to the effort you put in.
Simple - working out a % of kills is as easy as pie.
Unbiased - no guild can effectively establish a monopoly.
Maintains the market - players can still choose to buy drops from more efficient hunters, and by definition no more than 1 item per titan can enter the game on average.
Offers choice - a small guild can choose to work hard to get their own item, or concentrate on other aspects of the game and buy the drop.

All in all, I think this is better than most ideas in this thread because it is totally fair, rather than trying to patch a broken system.

#806 Khanate

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Posted 25 April 2010 - 00:55

You know, I'd potentially be up for scrapping the winning drop altogether and just splitting points by kill %. That way guilds can't secure and leave and have to commit fully to every titan to get maximum benefit. Meh, I haven't thought that through at all but it would certainly be different!


QFTW!! (Quoted For The Win)

#807 SgtDrunkie

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Posted 25 April 2010 - 01:32

Hell they cleaned out CW of all their top titan hunters not too long ago.


Late to the party, nothing really further to add to this... shambles of a thread.
Just wanted to say we went to FFS, they didnt come to us.
We left CW for reasons, and wanted to go somewhere to start afresh. We were friends with some frackers so it seemed to be the best place to go.
I wont deny that winning titans appealed to me, but it was not mine, or my other ex-CW guildmates primary objection.

#808 SaveMeGrim

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Posted 25 April 2010 - 01:41

Given the choice of the lesser of 2 evils, what are we to do???


You rang?

#809 Khanate

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Posted 25 April 2010 - 02:17



Now THAT would be something I could get on board with. Epic items needing a massive amount of accumulated TKP's across numerous titan events.


Thinking some more, I hunted Tsuki solo against FFS recently, 1 on 6, and was happily getting 1/7th of the kills. Assuming 100% of the kills is enough points for 1 drop, I would get a drop after 7 hunts whereas FFS would get it after 1 and a bit hunts. Given they are working harder for kills that would be acceptable.

However, with many more hunters out there you would never get more than 20-30% of the kills, resulting in more hunts per titan drop, and a distribution of drops according to effort. I think I actually like this idea more than I thought.

Also, points would be titan specific, so Tsuki buys Tsuki etc.

Points in favour:

No need for lockout as every guild will have a chance at drops over time.
Fair - your reward is directly proportional to the effort you put in.
Simple - working out a % of kills is as easy as pie.
Unbiased - no guild can effectively establish a monopoly.
Maintains the market - players can still choose to buy drops from more efficient hunters, and by definition no more than 1 item per titan can enter the game on average.
Offers choice - a small guild can choose to work hard to get their own item, or concentrate on other aspects of the game and buy the drop.

All in all, I think this is better than most ideas in this thread because it is totally fair, rather than trying to patch a broken system.


Best one yet

#810 Xainth

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Posted 25 April 2010 - 03:11

I think this helps some. I don't think it is the answer to everyone's complaint regarding titan hunting and winning the epic prize. I think allowing a guild to win 1 out of 3 titan hunts to get the epic would be a plus to help spread out the winning. But is it the answer? We'll have to wait and see.

#811 fs_breamdhb

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Posted 25 April 2010 - 03:21

i usually just read the forums.. but well anyway. 2 sec respawn is fine.. but the penalty for winning is obviously aimed at ffs, if you managed to win , it would always be in the back of your mind that you only won because ffs wasnt allowed participate.. would make the win worthless

#812 fs_regnier7

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Posted 25 April 2010 - 03:49

i usually just read the forums.. but well anyway. 2 sec respawn is fine.. but the penalty for winning is obviously aimed at ffs, if you managed to win , it would always be in the back of your mind that you only won because ffs wasnt allowed participate.. would make the win worthless



So you're saying it's not possible to practice, build up, then take on FFS if you want?


/devils advocate



I'm really loving the idea, RJEM.... I'd much rather not limit wins, so anything that can be used instead is a plus.

#813 Removed22342

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Posted 25 April 2010 - 08:11

i usually just read the forums.. but well anyway. 2 sec respawn is fine.. but the penalty for winning is obviously aimed at ffs, if you managed to win , it would always be in the back of your mind that you only won because ffs wasnt allowed participate.. would make the win worthless



So you're saying it's not possible to practice, build up, then take on FFS if you want?


/devils advocate



I'm really loving the idea, RJEM.... I'd much rather not limit wins, so anything that can be used instead is a plus.


I agree, I really don't wanna see them cows start limiting things, today it's titans but what about tomorrow when someone decides to start working on their SE medal and notice others are getting more kills?

Make it more rewarding placing top 5.

EDIT: and now I found RJEM's suggestion, looks decent

#814 EJames2100

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Posted 25 April 2010 - 09:22

I'm not sure I get all these real life comparisons but heck I'll throw mine in.

FS Servers in America, we pay by the dollar.
Isn't it illigal in America to have a monopoly of something ?

So let's just take FFS and the 1/3 of the Titans out of the picture.

Some of you are saying there will either be no competition on getting those kills and getting the item handed to us, the next your saying that other guilds will dominate, so which is it ?

If you like to work hard and have that nice feeling of getting nothing but competing for the thrill of it, go against FFS for their 1/3 of the Titans :/

#815 RJEM

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Posted 25 April 2010 - 09:48

I'm not sure I get all these real life comparisons but heck I'll throw mine in.

FS Servers in America, we pay by the dollar.
Isn't it illigal in America to have a monopoly of something ?

So let's just take FFS and the 1/3 of the Titans out of the picture.

Some of you are saying there will either be no competition on getting those kills and getting the item handed to us, the next your saying that other guilds will dominate, so which is it ?

If you like to work hard and have that nice feeling of getting nothing but competing for the thrill of it, go against FFS for their 1/3 of the Titans :/


EJames - did you see my % based system on the previous page? I think it would be very difficult to argue that it isn't completely fair to every guild, and it doesn't involve preventing anyone taking part.

However, it also completely does away with the monopoly on items.

#816 EJames2100

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Posted 25 April 2010 - 10:18

I've always liked the idea of TKP as long as it is structured right it will work wonders.
Also it does have to be rewarded for how many kills people get and not which place you finish(So 358 kills is 358 TKP and so on).

There's only one problem I've seen with this myself :/

Say a Titan has 5k HP exact, FFS get 2,501 kills and then leave it while the others mop it up for TKP(Assuming winning guilds still get items).

Unless TKP lets you obtain not only the winnable Epics but also about 4 New Epics.
This way would loosen the Monopoly on the winnable items and I doubt they'd keep a Monopoly on the newer items.
And the new Epics would have to be at the current winnable Epics(In stats and gains and stuff) to get FFS interested in not ranking 1st.

About the TKP prices, I think it'd be good if the prices for the items were equal to the Value of the Titan.
So 5k Titan needs 5k TKP to get.
And I know it seems low but if it takes off I imagine getting this amount of TKP would be a pretty good feat because of all the other attempting it.

#817 RJEM

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Posted 25 April 2010 - 10:23

I've always liked the idea of TKP as long as it is structured right it will work wonders.
Also it does have to be rewarded for how many kills people get and not which place you finish(So 358 kills is 358 TKP and so on).

There's only one problem I've seen with this myself :/

Say a Titan has 5k HP exact, FFS get 2,501 kills and then leave it while the others mop it up for TKP(Assuming winning guilds still get items).

Unless TKP lets you obtain not only the winnable Epics but also about 4 New Epics.
This way would loosen the Monopoly on the winnable items and I doubt they'd keep a Monopoly on the newer items.
And the new Epics would have to be at the current winnable Epics(In stats and gains and stuff) to get FFS interested in not ranking 1st.

About the TKP prices, I think it'd be good if the prices for the items were equal to the Value of the Titan.
So 5k Titan needs 5k TKP to get.


My idea does away with the 'winning drop' aspect, because that is essentially all that holds the monopoly in place. With JUST % based TKPs, along the lines of 1 HP = 1 TKP the strongest guild will still get the epic fastest, can still participate in every hunt, and can still attempt to dominate.

However, by completely removing RP from the equation it makes farming the elemental titans pointless, because regardless of TKPs on them the drop you can buy is still ", which doesn't sell well.

We don't need any more new epics in the game to be honest, so I would rather keep titan kills for titan items, GvG RP for GvG epics, and scavenging/resources for inventable epics.

#818 EJames2100

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Posted 25 April 2010 - 10:30

Good points, New Epics I thought would mearly be a motivator for some but not needed.

So 1 TKP per kill, You need the same amount of TKP as Titan HP to buy the item.
Will the TKP be the same for each Titan or per Titan ?

Also I'm not sure about Collossus as it is a crap reward a pain in the ass to kill but is abusably farmable, the points negate each other out which is why either TKP is per Titan(which I'm not a fan of) or it's upgraded a little bit(Whether it's the stats or just adding on an extra + 1-2Stam Gain to make it more valuable in that area which is what some Epics are used for).

But you are right, this is much better than excluding them and is fair for all, I still think they could tweak Titans a little more for us with a slower connection tho :P

#819 RJEM

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Posted 25 April 2010 - 10:44

Good points, New Epics I thought would mearly be a motivator for some but not needed.

So 1 TKP per kill, You need the same amount of TKP as Titan HP to buy the item.
Will the TKP be the same for each Titan or per Titan ?

Also I'm not sure about Collossus as it is a crap reward a pain in the ass to kill but is abusably farmable, the points negate each other out which is why either TKP is per Titan(which I'm not a fan of) or it's upgraded a little bit(Whether it's the stats or just adding on an extra + 1-2Stam Gain to make it more valuable in that area which is what some Epics are used for).

But you are right, this is much better than excluding them and is fair for all, I still think they could tweak Titans a little more for us with a slower connection tho :P


New epics would be a short term motivator, but with the exception of Gurgriss, which needs an overhaul (preferably by switching it to another slot rather than bumping its stats up) I don't think any of the titan epics have become unpopular - just overly controlled.

TKPs would be titan specific, and I would like to see the scout tower used to track how many you have racked up on a particular titan type as part of the level 1 upgrade. Level 2 can break it down by individual just like it does for specific titan hunts now:

Level One Scout Tower:

Active Titans: Blah
Your GUild Kills: Blah

Stored Points: Ogalith 27/4300
Skaldir 724/5000 etc.

Level Two Scout Tower:

Active Titans: Blah
Your Guild Kills: Blah
Active Player Kills: Blah

Stored Points: Ogalith 27/4300 (RJEM 13, EJames 14 etc.)

That would allow tracking of who has been contributing on each titan type. Once you reach 4300 and buy the item the earliest 4300 data points would be erased from the list.

Perhaps permanent storage could be made a Level 3 upgrade:

Level 3 Scout Tower:

All Time Titan Kills:

Ogalith: RJEM 1234, EJames 5678 etc.

These wouldn't be reset.

As I see it this offers a chance at radically overhauling the system, introducing a new gold sink structure, preventing RP farming on elemental titans, and is in no way unfair to any specific guild, any size of guild etc.

#820 Kevin

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Posted 25 April 2010 - 12:09

I'm not sure I get all these real life comparisons but heck I'll throw mine in.

FS Servers in America, we pay by the dollar.
Isn't it illigal in America to have a monopoly of something ?

So let's just take FFS and the 1/3 of the Titans out of the picture.

Some of you are saying there will either be no competition on getting those kills and getting the item handed to us, the next your saying that other guilds will dominate, so which is it ?

If you like to work hard and have that nice feeling of getting nothing but competing for the thrill of it, go against FFS for their 1/3 of the Titans :/


Everyone is throwing around the world "monopoly" like it is a bad thing. A monopoly per se is not bad. FFS does have a monopoly, sort of. All the existing Oggy Gloves, Skally Boots, Fuv Runes, and Tsucki Helms that other players own can be sold and therefore do not give FFS a complete monopoly. But more importantly, FFS does not control the price of the epics, the Market does. If epics were necessary in this game, then FFS could set the price, but instead they are a luxury and it is the players that decide what they are willing to pay for them.

"According to professor Milton Friedman, laws against monopolies cause more harm than good, but unnecessary monopolies should be countered by removing tariffs and other regulation that upholds monopolies."

So please, everyone that thinks all monopolies are bad, go brush up on your economics before making this claim again.

(EJames, this post is not directed at you, but rather all people that have made this claim. Having a monopoly is not illegal, there are then additional factors that make it illegal.)


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