Relic Poll - Let's put it to the vote :)
#1
Posted 08 May 2010 - 09:58
#2
Posted 08 May 2010 - 10:02
1. The level of empowerment on the relic
2. The number of defenders on the relic
3. The level of the defenders on the relic
The top guilds can, and do, hold the best relics in the game and, other than the actual empowerment costs, have them "FREE" for phenomenal bonuses. This should change
#3
Posted 08 May 2010 - 10:24
#4
Posted 08 May 2010 - 10:25
Sorry Prd but an upkeep that depends on the level of the defenders won't work on the EoC relics. There simply aren't any defenders on most of them lol.
I know - but for most it would ...
#5
Posted 08 May 2010 - 10:28
#6
Posted 08 May 2010 - 10:30
if you visit a big guilds relic it's securely defended - most of them its mandatory to defend relic, its part of another teamwork apect in this game, why do you want to destroy anything with teamwork in it? like the titans - any solo player can obtain one over a period of time now
imo they should remains as they are, 60% was way too much 20% is fine
#7
Posted 08 May 2010 - 10:35
An upkeep cost should be imposed based on empower level and guild size.
#8
fs_ithangor
Posted 08 May 2010 - 11:03
I d like relic stats to stay as they are, covering all stats and also the 20% max bonus to remain.
An upkeep cost should be imposed based on empower level and guild size.
Same here. I would like the bonuses to stay the same but they should come with an additional cost. Shar's suggestion of (100 x guild size x empower level) seems a little too high for me. If you mean this to be the hourly cost then we are talking about 124K every hour for a full guild with level 10 empower. There should be a cost, I am just not sure what would be "fair". There are plenty of guilds who could maybe afford the 124K per hour, but there are many many more who cant. We have quite a lot of full guilds, with low level members and their banks are pretty low.
Maybe it would need to tie in with the level of the Guild also or something?
#9
Posted 08 May 2010 - 11:32
I d like relic stats to stay as they are, covering all stats and also the 20% max bonus to remain.
An upkeep cost should be imposed based on empower level and guild size.
Same here. I would like the bonuses to stay the same but they should come with an additional cost. Shar's suggestion of (100 x guild size x empower level) seems a little too high for me. If you mean this to be the hourly cost then we are talking about 124K every hour for a full guild with level 10 empower. There should be a cost, I am just not sure what would be "fair". There are plenty of guilds who could maybe afford the 124K per hour, but there are many many more who cant. We have quite a lot of full guilds, with low level members and their banks are pretty low.
Maybe it would need to tie in with the level of the Guild also or something?
Hence the point of the poll - and i like Shar's formula for the fee - after all the relics are, as has been said many times, a LUXURY, not an essential. 124K / hour for a SECOND fully empowered relic really isn't THAT much when you think of ALL the benefits it offers..
Maybe tweak the formula so that the number of bonuses it gives are factored in too tho ?
#10
Posted 08 May 2010 - 11:45
I d like relic stats to stay as they are, covering all stats and also the 20% max bonus to remain.
An upkeep cost should be imposed based on empower level and guild size.
Same here. I would like the bonuses to stay the same but they should come with an additional cost. Shar's suggestion of (100 x guild size x empower level) seems a little too high for me. If you mean this to be the hourly cost then we are talking about 124K every hour for a full guild with level 10 empower. There should be a cost, I am just not sure what would be "fair". There are plenty of guilds who could maybe afford the 124K per hour, but there are many many more who cant. We have quite a lot of full guilds, with low level members and their banks are pretty low.
Maybe it would need to tie in with the level of the Guild also or something?
Thats where the idea of the first fully empowered relic comes upkeep free from
#11
Posted 08 May 2010 - 12:10
Game Impact
Firstly - relic bonuses are a part of the game like everything else, so I fully believe they should be useful in every part of the game (from PvP through to levelling, with the possible exception of a new, tougher content set - though that's a different discussion)
Upkeep Costs
Second - I support the idea of upkeep costs based on guild size and empowerment level. Having it based on the number of defenders has issues with penalising teamwork and the relics that have few possible defenders at end of content, so I wouldn't include that.
The first relic should not be 'free' to upkeep, because it is still a luxury item. However, to encourage guilds like mine (pretty small, but reasonable level) to participate in holding a relic I would propose the cost is reduced by a factor of 10 for the first relic:
First Relic Empowerment Cost = Current Empowerment Fee + Hourly Fee of 10 * (Empowerment Level * Number of Guild Members)
For a maxxed out guild that would be 12,400 gold per hour for the first set of bonuses. Every subsequent empowered relic has the higher cost attached to it:
Relics 2-6 Empowerment Cost = Empowerment Fee + Hourly Fee of 100 * (Empowerment Level * Number of Guild Members)
As Doom has said, this 124,000 gold is very high, but affordable for the big guilds. As a luxury which makes every aspect of the game much easier I like the idea of a big price tag beyond the first relic. It doesn't heavily penalise guilds starting out on holding a relic, but makes acquiring the godlike stats from multiple relics much more difficult.
Number of Stats per Relic
I'm in favour of reducing the number of stats per relic so that they all conform to a fairly basic structure which I will set out below:
1). No more than 3 stats per relic, including stamina, stamina gain and xp gain.
2). A maximum of 2 of any non combat bonuses (for example you can have stamina and stamina gain, but not xp gain as well.) Relics with three combat bonuses are allowed, so attack, damage and defence is still a viable relic.
What would this achieve?
Well, firstly it would make achieving +10% bonuses across the board much more expensive, and in some cases force a choice between having that additional armour bonus or holding your relic which has stamina gain on it.
For example, to achieve the +20% mark on all 4 important combat stats would require holding 4 well chosen relics at a cost of 372,000 gold per hour. This is a significant change. There would still be a small chance for having a 'bonus' stat like stamina gain, but those relics will presumably be very fought over.
Secondly, because so many relics would need to be held and empowered the idea is that defenders would need to be spread more thinly (encouraging smaller guilds to try and attack) or some of the bonuses would be sacrificed to ensure that your 2 secure relics remained secure.
Number of Relics in the Game, and how many of each type?
I think there are too many relics in the game currently, given the way the relic system works. I would like the number reduced so that there is one every 3 or 4 content releases. This would make those at end of content a little rarer, and limit the impact they have on topping up stats not covered by already established relics.
As for type, well, I think relics with 2 'bonus' stats on them like stamina gain should occur about 1% of the time, and those with only 1 'bonus' stat maybe 5% of the time. All of the rest (of the reduced number) would be 3 stat relics randomly rolled from the choice of attack, defence, armour, damage and HP (just in case HP ever becomes important in the game).
Relic Capture
With the new upkeep system it would be nice if the empowerment level of a relic didn't automatically drop to zero. Maybe a random roll between 1 and 'Current Empowerment', such that there is a 10% chance of capturing a fully empowered relic with its bonuses intact.
This could even be enhanced with a skill 'Relic Thief' which increased the chances of not losing levels!
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Well, there we go - it's another monster post from me but I think it sums up all of my thoughts on relics pretty well. There should be a cost, and there should be fewer relics!
#12
Posted 08 May 2010 - 13:26
There shouldn't be any Stam/XP gain with any Att/Dam/Def/Arm Stats
There shouldn't be any Att and Dam Relics, or any Def and Arm.
Maximum of 2 Stats so they would either be(Att and Def or Att and Arm or Dam and Def or Dam and Arm, Or Stam/XP Gain).
Enhancements are pretty useless on a Relic so they could go wherever.
Now about the Upkeep I'm all for the Relics resetting every 7 days(Gold Sink FTW) but I can guess not many will like it.
So as Doom says, the 1st relic free, and about the 2nd and so on.
10k Per Member per day:
So 124 Members = 1,240,000 a Day
The 3rd Relic, = 15k Per Member Per Day
So 124 members = 1,860,000
And just add 5k for each additional relic.
#13
fs_ithangor
Posted 08 May 2010 - 13:42
I d like relic stats to stay as they are, covering all stats and also the 20% max bonus to remain.
An upkeep cost should be imposed based on empower level and guild size.
Same here. I would like the bonuses to stay the same but they should come with an additional cost. Shar's suggestion of (100 x guild size x empower level) seems a little too high for me. If you mean this to be the hourly cost then we are talking about 124K every hour for a full guild with level 10 empower. There should be a cost, I am just not sure what would be "fair". There are plenty of guilds who could maybe afford the 124K per hour, but there are many many more who cant. We have quite a lot of full guilds, with low level members and their banks are pretty low.
Maybe it would need to tie in with the level of the Guild also or something?
Thats where the idea of the first fully empowered relic comes upkeep free from
I know, but this would essentially rule most guilds outside of about the Top50 from having more than 1 relic, which is not the way to go. There is just no way that most guilds could afford 124K an hour, thats 3M per day. I know the rewards from a fully empowered, multiple stat relic is probably worth that much, its just that many cannot afford it.
#14
Posted 08 May 2010 - 14:03
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“When you tear out a man's tongue, you are not proving him a liar, you're only telling the world that you fear what he might say.” -GRRM
#15
fs_robotussin
Posted 08 May 2010 - 14:07
I d like relic stats to stay as they are, covering all stats and also the 20% max bonus to remain.
An upkeep cost should be imposed based on empower level and guild size.
same here.
larger guilds should pay more, but i'm having a hard time seeing the need for some of the other drastic changes you offer.
#16
Posted 08 May 2010 - 14:24
The ideas I've always supported are and remain :
- 2 bonuses per relic
- less relics
By implementing these 2 ideas you'd increase the competition for existing relics. I believe competition will take care of the upkeep, if more guilds want less relics then relics are going to change hands more often which results in a gold sink (which relics aren't at the moment). By adding an upkeep you are ensuring that many guilds that would fight for these relics will stop as they won't be able to afford it.
The gold sink from relics should come from competition+empowerment, not knee-jerk massive fees. And defending 4-5-6 relics (which is what would be required with 2 stats per relic to get +20% to everything) instead of 2 thins out your defense, you are therefore certain to get relics stolen more often if there is competition for relics.
#17
Posted 08 May 2010 - 14:30
#18
Posted 08 May 2010 - 14:34
I know, but this would essentially rule most guilds outside of about the Top50 from having more than 1 relic, which is not the way to go. There is just no way that most guilds could afford 124K an hour, thats 3M per day. I know the rewards from a fully empowered, multiple stat relic is probably worth that much, its just that many cannot afford it.
Just how many outside the top 50 do you think actually fully empower relics ? - I'd say next to none do ? - I know when we take a relic, we'll MAYBE empower it up to 2 or 3 for a quick hunt bonus, but that's all.
Most guilds will only fully empower a relic if they're almost CERTAIN that it'll remain in their hands - otherwise why risk all that investment ?. And ergo, if they're certain it'll remain in their hands (either via sheer numbers defending it, or backdoor agreements not to take each others relics) then the upkeep fee should come into play and for the hefty associated price tag too.
Besides, where is the NECESSITY to hold more than one relic ? - relics are a luxury, not a game essential. Hell, my preference would be that ALL relics had an upkeep fee, but i'm willing to throw in with Shar's idea that the first one is free if it means the system is changed.
I challenge anyone to say that current relic system isn't massively overpowered and a privilige for a "select few" - mostly guilds with EOC players where relics are scattered all over the place with every bonus under the sun. How is that equitable ?
#19
Posted 08 May 2010 - 14:34
Small guilds with no online players/solo guilds could then make more use of relics?
#20
Posted 08 May 2010 - 14:38
I'm not a fan of upkeep myself tho but I admit it would be a good gold sink.
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