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#21 kingtyrin

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Posted 22 June 2010 - 21:56

Exactly.

What about a guild that that involved in a lot of conflicts all the time, then has a player leave. All of the sudden all of the conflicts that they are are involved in are almost automatic losses (since the player that just left is likely naked. How is that fair to the guild. So much attention is being given to fixing the problem where a guild kicks members in order to win a conflict that we have created a mechanism that is completely unfair to a guild that simply has a player leave.

What about the other side, those who have targets kicked out from under them to cause an automatic loss? How is that fair to the other guild to have thier targets removed? Under the current system, discretion in who recruit will solve your problem, the old system relied on honer which many guilds proved they had little of.

#22 Admiral Memo

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Posted 22 June 2010 - 22:32

What about a guild that that involved in a lot of conflicts all the time, then has a player leave? All of the sudden, all of the conflicts that they are are involved in are almost automatic losses (since the player that just left is likely naked).

If a player really respects his or her guild, and he or she is not a low-level player, then he or she should have enough backpack spaces for a personal offline set, and should never have to leave naked.

#23 BalianRW

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Posted 23 June 2010 - 00:05

What about the other side, those who have targets kicked out from under them to cause an automatic loss? How is that fair to the other guild to have thier targets removed? Under the current system, discretion in who recruit will solve your problem, the old system relied on honer which many guilds proved they had little of.


I agree with you here, but every update and suggestion I have seen is geared to fix this problem (including the most recent update) with little or no regard given to the consequences on the other side of the issue.


If they didn't win 50, odds are the other guild would have won anyway. If they did win 50, then the worst that can happen is a draw, which only a few people will spend stam to get.

We restrict who can initate a conflict to those who have advanced a few ranks. I don't expect those people will leave in mid-conflict, and if a new member who is in one of their conflicts decides to leave (generally, conflicts here "belong" to whever paid the FSP and initated it), I expect the veteran member will do what needs to be done. Or we'll lose, but so what? Losing a GvG is no big deal; rather, it's the risk of losing that makes it fun. Losing your kill streak is WAY more annoying.

But then, I mainly GvG because I enjoy it. I mainly do everything I do in the game because I enjoy it. :)


Yeah, but you've got to admit it would be MUCH easier to win or draw when you are hitting someone that is naked.

]If a player really respects his or her guild, and he or she is not a low-level player, then he or she should have enough backpack spaces for a personal offline set, and should never have to leave naked.


Agreed, but a great many people don't have an offline set. Plus if someone really respected their guild, why would they be leaving?

#24 kingtyrin

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Posted 23 June 2010 - 00:23


What about the other side, those who have targets kicked out from under them to cause an automatic loss? How is that fair to the other guild to have thier targets removed? Under the current system, discretion in who recruit will solve your problem, the old system relied on honer which many guilds proved they had little of.


I agree with you here, but every update and suggestion I have seen is geared to fix this problem (including the most recent update) with little or no regard given to the consequences on the other side of the issue.

The old system, if the only target(s) were kicked there was NO way for the opposing team to get a draw win, or even try. This way there is not only a chance for the other side, but a good one if they plan it right. As I had said, more discretion as to who you recruit will be key. And really, 24 hours without a guild isnt going to hurt anyone.



Yeah, but you've got to admit it would be MUCH easier to win or draw when you are hitting someone that is naked.

Yes, but you must admit its IMPOSSIBLE to win or draw when your only target is no longer in the guild. Big difference between much easier and impossible(Without recruiting,leveling, or deleveling in order to obtain reach of someones range, but then they could just kick more)

Agreed, but a great many people don't have an offline set. Plus if someone really respected their guild, why would they be leaving?

Who is truley at fault, the leader and guild, or the person that felt the reason to abandon that leader or guild? I know its a hard question to generalize since every time is so different on a case to case basis, but Ive never heard of any successful military in which the leaders did not have the loyalty of their troops. Moles, spys, defections, although downright dirty have been a common tactic since ancient times. (Read the book "Romance of Three Kingdoms" Its a historical fiction(based on historical events, but wasnt written down until something like 500-1000 years after it had happened, so of course oral history had trumped it up with legend and such) about the feudal wars in China during and after the Han dynasty. There is more tricks and schemes then actual fighting almost lol A wonderful read.)

Anyways, the summery of my argument is that current conditions are far better then they once were were kicking was a valid tactic, and I have yet heard any imo to be suggested that would be an adequate replacement. We should thank the cows for listening to us that it was broken. VERY broken, and they fixed it, likely in the simplest way for them to do so. If this punishes guild hoppers and guilds that house them, but my voice says so be it.

#25 Kayesha

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Posted 23 June 2010 - 00:59

Its also a descent inconvenience to guilds that are recruiting.


Actually I have found that it is better for recruiting. It weeds out the impatient, the rude and people I do not want in my guild. I have found this 24 hour waiting period to be a good time to get to know the people a little and have found that there are people I would have normally accepted because I only know the basics about them but after 24 hours realised they were not wanted.

Simply though, if someone wants to sabotage your GvG they can do it easily without leaving and do it a couple times. There will always be people who see a greener pasture elsewhere and those who want to explore their options. If you are a good guild you will also have loyal players that will stick with you until the day they stop playing. 24 hours is not going to hurt them nor is it going to do awesome damage to you. Tyically people pick thier targets in GvG ahead of time and just continue to attack those people. I think this is really being made a bigger issue then what it is.

I would also like to add I think the 24 hour wait period is a good thing and thank the Cows for dealing with the issues of the cheaters in this game.

#26 Admiral Memo

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Posted 23 June 2010 - 03:06

If a player really respects his or her guild, and he or she is not a low-level player, then he or she should have enough backpack spaces for a personal offline set, and should never have to leave naked.

Agreed, but a great many people don't have an offline set. Plus if someone really respected their guild, why would they be leaving?

Well, as I said, if they're not low-level players, they've typically invested time and money into the guild, and time and money has been invested on them, as well. If they are mature adults (or mature teenagers, at least), then they will respect the guild they're leaving, even if they no longer like it. One of those "don't burn your bridges behind you" type of things. As to why they'd leave if they still respect the guild, there are many reasons. One, they could have had a disagreement with one specific high-level person in a guild, but like the rest of the guild as a whole. Two, as happened in my guild a number of times, their interests changed. We had one player who was with us for over a year, perhaps years, who joined up at a low level and rose through the ranks steadily. She was a very high-level, high-ranked player when she left, and still respected and liked everyone in the guild. However, her interests had changed to Super Elite hunting, and we were a guild dedicated solely to leveling at that time. (We now also do some GvG, but that's beside the point.) So, she searched for greener pastures while still with us, and made her decision and reasons known to everyone. There were and are no hard feeling between any of us and her. Once she found the guild she liked, she made a final large donation, bid us farewell, and left. Three, as happened to us recently, they may want to start their own guilds. We now have a "brother" guild to ours, made up of some former members and some new recruits of theirs. We still communicate freely, and help each other generously. Leaving a guild is not necessarily a bad experience, and burning your bridges, even after a bad experience, is never wise. You never know when you might need their help again.

#27 kingtyrin

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Posted 23 June 2010 - 03:31

At my level, the easiest targets are often the people in epic

Bring it!
(soooo sorry for going off topic and taking you out of context but I couldnt help myself :lol: )

#28 kingtyrin

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Posted 23 June 2010 - 04:01

Uhmm, you're not at my level, I can't attack you in GvG.

Was a complete jjoke bro, I saw your text could be taken out of contex and though it was funny :P

But seriously, level 400+ players in level 100 epics like the KKH and the Ward, and resting in Reborn Elemental weapon, they are pretty easy to take out. Maybe someone in Skaldirs, Vortex and Seraphim would be a challenge, but I doubt it. Epics seem made for the hunt, not to resist GvG. Deapwater might be the exception, but according to the FSG there are only two of those in the game.

Yeah, the Epics offline really put you at a downfall, except most are so damage heavy, at least they can out armor and out defense you(At the same time) so they still have a chance at the 2% with LD,Force shield,Dodge, first strike, and the 2% miss. Also, the defense ones like the RORD, in a proper defense set can be an effective defense with savagery. Overall, I completely agree, as alot of them break up decent sets, let alone their damage heavy stats


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