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Cows, please disable Shield Strike in PvP


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Poll: Disable Shield Strike in PVP? (46 member(s) have cast votes)

Disable Shield Strike in PVP?

  1. Voted Yes (20 votes [41.67%])

    Percentage of vote: 41.67%

  2. Voted No (28 votes [58.33%])

    Percentage of vote: 58.33%

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#1 fs_gravely

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Posted 26 June 2010 - 02:52

In light of recent discussions with many players involved with GvG and PvP, I'd like to ask Hoofmaster to Disable Shield Strike in PvP.

Several players in the GvG community were unhappy with the idea that Dull Edge should operate in PvP; thinking about it, pierce isn't the main problem.

The problem is that pierce can stack with shield strike or critical hit. Critical hit is a 1 time thing that requires a 3% activation, at best. Nasty, but rather rare. Shield Strike on the other hand has been activating EXTREMELY often lately, and allows a player to essentially quadruple damage when combined with piercing strike in pvp. This is simply overpowered for PvP purposes and needs to change for game balance. Shield Strike is also mainly meant to assist leveling, as a reverse wither. It serves no purpose in PvP except to make it nearly impossible for armor suits to survive a hit.

#2 Mister Doom

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Posted 26 June 2010 - 02:57

Doesn't shatter armor already cripple armor suits though. I think there is plenty of things that cripple both Arm and Def sets. No point in making one so vastly superior to the other, or maybe I'm missing something?

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#3 fs_gravely

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Posted 26 June 2010 - 02:58

Doesn't shatter armor already cripple armor suits though. I think there is plenty of things that cripple both Arm and Def sets. No point in making one so vastly superior to the other, or maybe I'm missing something?


It's possible to load up HP and still theoretically survive a shatter situation; however, since shield strike operates based on damage, it doesn't care if you're smart enough to build both stats.

And if you're wondering, my best armor suit has nearly 2000 HP, fully buffed.

Additionally, there's no buff in the game that literally doubles your attack at random, regardless of other stats. Savagery CAN, if a player has a lot of defense, but then an armor suit can reasonably handle a set like that.

#4 kingtyrin

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Posted 26 June 2010 - 03:02

You havent voted yet Grave :P
Anyways Im all for this, as long as they wait until at least 23:28 26/Jun/2010(Server time) to do so :lol:

#5 fs_gravely

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Posted 26 June 2010 - 03:02

lol :mrgreen:

#6 kingtyrin

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Posted 26 June 2010 - 03:09

No point in making one so vastly superior to the other, or maybe I'm missing something?

KE,DC,Savagery (if your set is right as well) and the 2% kill Defense . =4
SS,SA,Reflection, PS,CH,and Savagery (if your set is right) kills armor. =6
I would say one is vastly superior, would you not agree?
(flinch and constitution for defense adds and sanctuary and terrorize for armor adds are about equal)

#7 fs_gravely

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Posted 26 June 2010 - 03:11

And the counter to piercing strike isn't available in pvp, and there isn't a spiking attack enhancement in existence :wink:

#8 fs_theoryman

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Posted 26 June 2010 - 03:11

It wouldn't bother me if they changed Shield Strike to be a PvE only buff. As I'm not part of this GvG community or PvP community, I know that my ideas would be "quoted questioned" to death so my reasoning/experiences on this topic I will keep to myself.

And Gravely, can you add a third choice of "It wouldn't bother me if they changed it" or something of that like, I'm only a somewhat yes I guess...

#9 fs_gravely

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Posted 26 June 2010 - 03:13

You don't have to vote if you don't care, theory =)

I'm sure this poll will most likely end up ignored by the cows, just like most other player threads, but I think the discussion is relevant.

#10 Mister Doom

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Posted 26 June 2010 - 03:33

SS can tumble a Def set also too though btw...

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#11 fs_gravely

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Posted 26 June 2010 - 03:45

Shield Strike affects damage, not attack.

If you're referring to the fact that SS has a penalty involved with it, SS is mainly used in PvP to cause attackers to lose during GvG or to clear bounties with much more armor than the attacker can generate damage. With regards to defense being lost versus attackers, if they haven't already covered the defense score they wouldn't be attacking in the first place; on bounties, generally speaking you're suiciding in the first place if you're relying on Shield Strike.

#12 MaximusGR

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Posted 26 June 2010 - 04:18

And the counter to piercing strike isn't available in pvp, and there isn't a spiking attack enhancement in existence :wink:


Duelist? :P

Also, SS cripples defense so if someone is careless enough to have it on in a high defense set to enhance his damage against armor, its not always working in favor of them

#13 asterxemil

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Posted 26 June 2010 - 04:19

Touché, Max, touché

#14 Mister Doom

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Posted 26 June 2010 - 04:29

Shield Strike affects damage, not attack.

If you're referring to the fact that SS has a penalty involved with it, SS is mainly used in PvP to cause attackers to lose during GvG or to clear bounties with much more armor than the attacker can generate damage. With regards to defense being lost versus attackers, if they haven't already covered the defense score they wouldn't be attacking in the first place; on bounties, generally speaking you're suiciding in the first place if you're relying on Shield Strike.


Not always, SS can be used to take down opponents on which you can't actually clear their Def value ;)

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#15 Maehdros

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Posted 26 June 2010 - 04:56

Shield strike can help armor sets tremendously.. especially attack/armor sets... when defending against armor in pvp..or hitting someone who is wearing armor... thing is... it works the same way for the other player if they get buffed with it lol. Its a 17.5% chance to kick? yikes...

#16 kingtyrin

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Posted 26 June 2010 - 05:01

And the counter to piercing strike isn't available in pvp, and there isn't a spiking attack enhancement in existence :wink:


Duelist? :P

He said spiking. Deulist is a constant, there is nothing that will randomly double your attack.

Also, SS cripples defense so if someone is careless enough to have it on in a high defense set to enhance his damage against armor, its not always working in favor of them

Not always, SS can be used to take down opponents on which you can't actually clear their Def value ;)

Speaking from a gvg point of view, relying on SS to take out your opponents defense is foolhardy at best. Speaking from both a GVG and PVP point of view, anyone who is relying on defense and doesnt want SS cast on them has a safeguard against it, by blocking it in their preferences.

#17 kingtyrin

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Posted 26 June 2010 - 05:23

there is no need to remove it from pvp

if it ain't broke don't fix it

But it is broke, at least in the sense that even without it, armor is anything but safe with all the other described ways to kill it. Trying to balance it out would be fixing the system

#18 fs_gravely

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Posted 26 June 2010 - 11:53

Not always, SS can be used to take down opponents on which you can't actually clear their Def value ;)


In GvG, if you're relying on that, SS won't activate at least 70% of the time (I say that because I've noticed SS going off MUCH more often lately). Even still, 70% of the time when you can't clear their defense is a deathwish if you're trying to win in GvG.

But, check it out, Doom. Back when we thought reckoning worked in PVP (and therefore could effect DC225) you posted this with regards to relics:

Having reckoning work on group pretty much makes mass defense of a relic pointless. Bad move if they even consider this imo.


It's the exact same concept. It's literally impossible to have a prayer of winning 50 combats versus a target that can hit you and has shield strike, shatter, empower, and damage buffs stacked.

Having shield strike work on defending suicide suits in PvP pretty much makes completing a GvG pointless. You slap 4 sets together to get massive KE, then you wait for some out of control witches' brew of piercing strike, reflection, shield strike, critical hit, shatter armor, and savagery to blow any concievable armor suit away.

On bounties, once again, it's about suicide. If you're using it to lower defense, I guarantee it won't work more than one time against a particular player; I have it turned off in prefs when I'm going offline in defense and have been bad.

And the counter to piercing strike isn't available in pvp, and there isn't a spiking attack enhancement in existence :wink:


Duelist? :P

Also, SS cripples defense so if someone is careless enough to have it on in a high defense set to enhance his damage against armor, its not always working in favor of them


Tyrin covered the spiking portion for me; the reason that's important is because, especially in GvG, it's all about value control.

Let's have a fun example. You have 1500 damage.

I have 12000 armor. EIGHT TIMES your damage score.

Shield Strike + Critical hit already makes you do 6000 damage. a pierce reduces my armor to 6000. Congratulations, with no real penalty, you've done eight times your supposed maximum damage....

Granted, a shield strike critical pierce is a rarity even now, and can rightly be considered a two percent; however, keep in mind that the instances where one can actually buff their armor scores up that high in comparison to target damage are vanishingly rare; I haven't managed it in months, since everyone and their pet rat tends to put their points in damage anyway. Even without a pierce/shield strike/crit, though, shatter and crit, shield strike and pierce, reflection off of a critical hit I generate stacked with a critical hit or a shield strike or a shatter, any of these combinations cause massive fluctuations in comparsion to anything a defense suit has to account for.

#19 EJames2100

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Posted 26 June 2010 - 12:39

How come it's taken til now to make a thread :P

Ya know, I didn't even think it worked in any PvP Aspect tbh, I thought it was only for levelling O.o

Also I saw King comparing buffs earlier, Just thought I'd add that getting a Con 250 is much easier/cheaper than getting a Sanct 250 ;)

Also in Enhancements, Pierce and Critical only help those against Armor, that's not many/any(?) that help Armor(Without having a counter part).
Although I'd say the random 2% luck factor in Def, is the same as the Crit hit for Armor so I wouldn't really count that.

#20 Mister Doom

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Posted 26 June 2010 - 12:48

Yeah I guess you're right, it seems a shame to have a great buff like this completely taken away from PvP though. Perhaps if, in pvp it worked similar to HF does on creatures (only affecting the hp after the armor is broken through). I don't know, just an idea.

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