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Cows, please disable Shield Strike in PvP


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Poll: Disable Shield Strike in PVP? (46 member(s) have cast votes)

Disable Shield Strike in PVP?

  1. Voted Yes (20 votes [41.67%])

    Percentage of vote: 41.67%

  2. Voted No (28 votes [58.33%])

    Percentage of vote: 58.33%

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#21 kingtyrin

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Posted 26 June 2010 - 12:52

How come it's taken til now to make a thread :P

23:28 25/Jun/2010 KingTyrin has just initiated a conflict with the guild Black Sun. :wink:
Naw, Im kidding, Grave has been asking for the cows to bring balance to armor for a while now.

Also I saw King comparing buffs earlier, Just thought I'd add that getting a Con 250 is much easier/cheaper than getting a Sanct 250 ;)

A bigger testament to the lack of balance.

Also in Enhancements, Pierce and Critical only help those against Armor, that's not many/any(?) that help Armor(Without having a counter part).

Nullify and Reinforced armor are, but Critical hit doubles your damage stat instead of damage done(like in the arena) so nullify isnt really and adequate counter to it, and reinforced armor only increases your armor 25% when PS takes away 50%


Although I'd say the random 2% luck factor in Def, is the same as the Crit hit for Armor so I wouldn't really count that.

Everything must be taken into account and weighted, and I believe when you doso, armor is at an extreme disadvantage under the current system, and disabling SS from pvp or at least somehow just gvg, it would still be at a disadvantage, but not as grossly

#22 fs_gravely

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Posted 26 June 2010 - 20:51

lol, Tyrin :P Straw that broke the camels back :lol:

Anyways, EJ, I've made threads before. My most recent attempt before this thread to get some armor love was causing Dull Edge and Demoralize to operate in PVP, but Tyrin (and a lot of other GvG maniacs) don't like that idea, even though it would really help out versus pierce.

There needs to be some reasonable way to cause suicide suits to not be a one size fits all solution to GvG; currently, they are, as has been explained many times. In the 450 range where one in particular well known GvG leader sits, it's not possible to clear his offline suit with armor or defense. He requires no potion buffs and no gear changes, just Ditch, FS, Shield Strike, KE, and DC175. Given that, in fifty hits, his set will kill anything that can reach him, sooner or later.

It's kind of ridiculous, when you think about it.

#23 fs_gravely

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Posted 26 June 2010 - 21:01

Yeah I guess you're right, it seems a shame to have a great buff like this completely taken away from PvP though. Perhaps if, in pvp it worked similar to HF does on creatures (only affecting the hp after the armor is broken through). I don't know, just an idea.


For the record, doom, I fully support as many options for PvP as humanly possible. I wish SS was balanced within the PvP framework.

I would RATHER a new buff came out that gave us armor or defense BUFF options, especially one that specifically hurt suicide suits, but the Cows missed the boat on that one, as usual.

#24 Removed22342

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Posted 26 June 2010 - 23:26

Is this a big problem?

EDIT: didn't catch the GvG part, as you were

#25 fs_littlejom

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 01:21

It hasn't effected me yet, but simply defending with this buff would k.o. an armour setup, no one buff should be able to do that (along with the help of enhancements of course).

#26 fs_gravely

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 14:06

Monday morning bump.

See several no votes, but no discussion as to how/why Shield Strike is balanced within the current PvP framework... :?

#27 kingtyrin

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 14:11

See several no votes, but no discussion as to how/why Shield Strike is balanced within the current PvP framework... :?

Those votes certainly arnt from level 700+'s who dont pvp and are loving how much they are making off gvg/pvpers selling 20 stam for one fsp ;)
(sarcasm)

#28 FORN

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 17:05

i have been reading through it, and ill see what the coders say.

Continue disscussion :D

#29 fs_evilix

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Posted 29 June 2010 - 19:01

Nah..i say leave shield strike as it is..changing the game for everyone isn't cool cause someone wants to sit in high armor/hp and feel invincible towards lower levels..don't get me wrong..i take armor over defense any day..but,if someone doesn't like pvp the way it is then don't pvp..the buff isn't broken..and if a lower level chooses to purchase the buff from a lvl 700+ player to enhance his chance of winning a combat over a higher lvl then thats thier choice..Always a choice..but if SS is removed then thats just one more option that pvpr's don't have to enhance there combats..


Have an Evil Day..!!

#30 Kedyn

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Posted 29 June 2010 - 19:02

Reading through this thread.. Tyrin and Gravely have made a great point as to why SS should not be included in GVG at least.. PVP can be a different story (if it could be coded that way).

I voted yes because there shouldn't be 1 buff that can render one set completely useless versus another. I understand armor has its drawbacks compared to defense, but disabling SS can start the balancing between armor set ups and defense set ups.

I also agree that it would be nice to find a way to fight the suicide set ups that many guilds sleep in, but that's another discussion entirely..

Also, I'd like to see the reasons behind why people are voting "no" to this..

#31 fs_knc

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Posted 29 June 2010 - 19:12

i don't see a need for it to change. if RA or FS or LD kicks in, you're getting hit with 0 defense. i think KE is worse.

#32 fs_gravely

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Posted 30 June 2010 - 03:20

i don't see a need for it to change. if RA or FS or LD kicks in, you're getting hit with 0 defense. i think KE is worse.


You misunderstand how the buff is utilized. It's being cast on offline players that have nothing to lose by having shield strike activate - anyone who is going for the win in a GvG conflict is going to have defense scores beat anyway, so if I have 6000 attack to hit your 7000 defense suit with, it doesn't matter if your defense score is 7000 or 0 - on the other hand, it very much matters if you suddenly become, at random, capable of dealing eight times (or more) of your actual statistical damage.

#33 MaximusGR

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Posted 30 June 2010 - 05:55

i don't see a need for it to change. if RA or FS or LD kicks in, you're getting hit with 0 defense. i think KE is worse.


You misunderstand how the buff is utilized. It's being cast on offline players that have nothing to lose by having shield strike activate - anyone who is going for the win in a GvG conflict is going to have defense scores beat anyway, so if I have 6000 attack to hit your 7000 defense suit with, it doesn't matter if your defense score is 7000 or 0 - on the other hand, it very much matters if you suddenly become, at random, capable of dealing eight times (or more) of your actual statistical damage.


The way you argument though, if there is one buff that should be taken away it's Reflection..Ignoring armor completely and kicking in every time is much more unbalancing than doubling damage randomly ;)

#34 kingtyrin

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Posted 30 June 2010 - 06:02

The way you argument though, if there is one buff that should be taken away it's Reflection..Ignoring armor completely and kicking in every time is much more unbalancing than doubling damage randomly ;)

Reflection can easily be gotten around though, all you have to do is get lot more HP and lower your damage to just enough to be lethal. And yes, at my level, you can even get rid of your CH and PS enhancements(Provided you dont have the structures) to make you that much more safer against it, so Im guessing its possible at other levels while maintaining the armor to survive a hit. But getting the armor to survive any combination of PS/CH/SS and SA is very VERY hard.

#35 fs_knc

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Posted 30 June 2010 - 13:23

i don't see a need for it to change. if RA or FS or LD kicks in, you're getting hit with 0 defense. i think KE is worse.


You misunderstand how the buff is utilized. It's being cast on offline players that have nothing to lose by having shield strike activate - anyone who is going for the win in a GvG conflict is going to have defense scores beat anyway, so if I have 6000 attack to hit your 7000 defense suit with, it doesn't matter if your defense score is 7000 or 0 - on the other hand, it very much matters if you suddenly become, at random, capable of dealing eight times (or more) of your actual statistical damage.



this is why we can now pick buffs that we don't want to be cast on us.

#36 fs_gravely

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Posted 30 June 2010 - 13:29

You're still not getting it :?

You're in GvG Guild A. Your guild attacks random guild B, and gets 50/0. You log off for the night in a 3 set attack/defense suit. You only have about 35% of the maximum damage available at your level, because you want to make sure that between KE and DC, you can cover any theoretical defense suit.

Guild B starts targeting YOU to get their hits done. Your guildmates either cast or buy Shield strike to buff on you. You dont have a defense score because you're in a suicide suit. Eventually, offline, you'll stack a shatter, shield strike, pierce, or critical. Shield strike in that scenario does nothing BUT help you, and there's no reason you'd block it being cast on you.

#37 kingtyrin

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Posted 30 June 2010 - 13:37

this is why we can now pick buffs that we don't want to be cast on us.

Forget about the fact that it reduces your defense to 0, that is not whats on trial here. The fact that it makes armor near useless and suicide sets for offline nearly unbeatable in a set of 50 is. Since its my belief you havent read through the thread at all, let me throw out a highlight-

Let's have a fun example. You have 1500 damage.

I have 12000 armor. EIGHT TIMES your damage score.

Shield Strike + Critical hit already makes you do 6000 damage. a pierce reduces my armor to 6000. Congratulations, with no real penalty, you've done eight times your supposed maximum damage....

How can you possibly see this as fair?

#38 fs_knc

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Posted 30 June 2010 - 13:41

You're still not getting it :?

You're in GvG Guild A. Your guild attacks random guild B, and gets 50/0. You log off for the night in a 3 set attack/defense suit. You only have about 35% of the maximum damage available at your level, because you want to make sure that between KE and DC, you can cover any theoretical defense suit.

Guild B starts targeting YOU to get their hits done. Your guildmates either cast or buy Shield strike to buff on you. You dont have a defense score because you're in a suicide suit. Eventually, offline, you'll stack a shatter, shield strike, pierce, or critical. Shield strike in that scenario does nothing BUT help you, and there's no reason you'd block it being cast on you.


in one paragraph you're talking about being in a atk/def suit, and in another you're talking about having no def. you wonder why i'm confused.

if you're using SS as a defender. you would need a LD/FS to kick in anyway. you'd be better off going all out atk/dam with LD/FS, wouldn't you? unless somebody is in a crazy atk\armor suit, SS isn't going to matter. i fail to see any scenario where it would be overpowering.

#39 fs_knc

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Posted 30 June 2010 - 13:46



this is why we can now pick buffs that we don't want to be cast on us.

Forget about the fact that it reduces your defense to 0, that is not whats on trial here. The fact that it makes armor near useless and suicide sets for offline nearly unbeatable in a set of 50 is. Since its my belief you havent read through the thread at all, let me throw out a highlight-

Let's have a fun example. You have 1500 damage.

I have 12000 armor. EIGHT TIMES your damage score.

Shield Strike + Critical hit already makes you do 6000 damage. a pierce reduces my armor to 6000. Congratulations, with no real penalty, you've done eight times your supposed maximum damage....

How can you possibly see this as fair?


Seriously. what are the odds of SS kicking in + critical hit + PS? slim. less than the 2% chance that my 5 atk can get past your 20k defense. plus add in that we keep talking about defenders so we need FS/LD so we can cut that chance down even more. The game is incredibly offensive-minded.

i've read the thread. i don't see anything wrong.

#40 kingtyrin

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Posted 30 June 2010 - 13:56

Seriously. what are the odds of SS kicking in + critical hit + PS? slim. less than the 2% chance that my 5 atk can get past your 20k defense. plus add in that we keep talking about defenders so we need FS/LD so we can cut that chance down even more. The game is incredibly offensive-minded.

i've read the thread. i don't see anything wrong.

The odds are slim, but when do you see a defender use 1/8th the damage of the possible armor at any given level? With LD,FS,Dodge, first strike, and the 2% random miss, SS and PS going off together are very common, and at my level I know from experience my what should be insufficient damage often overcomes well over twice its armor between some combination of SS,PS and SA, let alone savagery and CH. The argument is there are too many ways to kill armor, and the removal of SS would be one of the easiest ways to bring a bit more balance to it.


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