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Victimize the Levelers: thieves and bullies rule!


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#861 sweetlou

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Posted 27 July 2010 - 09:36

Like I've said previously, it would be great to see xp gained from PvP. Players rightfully lose xp from a loss to a mob and another player, with the exception of players above your level... So, if you gain xp from killing mobs why not gain xp from killing players? It is experience. Players wouldn't as easily straddle a certain level range taking advantage of newer, less experienced players. I think it would create a marvelous new major dimension to the FS dynamics. The downside would be to nullify any attempts to prevent/slow trading of Prestige or PvP rating. The system is delicate. We will see what the devs do.


I've often wondered why PvP GAINS no XP - surely it should? As you say, it's experience - in fact, to my view of things, it's more valuable experience, it's obtained by defeating another "MIGHTY WARRIOR", not just some random mindless monster. I do believe that XP loss should not exist (except perhaps on the BB). This would make for a more "constructive" approach to PvP - there would be measurable gains to be had by beating other players (in addition to the possibility of gold and fame, of course), leaading to a possible alternative way to level without going after mobs. And it would do away with the the malicious, destructive aspect of PvP. All in all, I think that by combining abolition of XP loss and adding XP gain, PvP would become much, much more popular.

I believe you have totally taken my idea out of the context within which it was framed, namely to add it as a component of the current system. Instead you would like to abolish xp loss from PvP(off the BB) and add xp gain to it, a radical idea to say the least. Where would bountys be derived, from friendly PvP? Should the devs omit xp loss from losing to 'mindless' mobs as well? For that matter, why even have xp at all? There could be any number of ways to 'level' instead of using xp. This is the fundamental base by which this game is designed. Taking away any of these components and the game would be nothing but a broken shell of its former self.

It is my opinion that you detest PvP in this game. In fact I'm convinced of it and that doesn't make me think that you are anything but simply playing the wrong game... I don't want PvP to be watered down but engage in constructive ways to improve it. PvP is nothing new, neither is the 'sadistic thuggery' you are so fond of calling player's actions. It is why we have a Bounty Board system included in PvP! Because some players don't use it optimally isn't a reason to omit xp loss. Playing the victim isn't anything but playing on a common theme among players who despise PvP.

On a more positive note, I'm very happy with the new improvements to the PvP aspect of the game. A few tweaks that the devs are planning like a revamp of the PvP point and ladder system are encouraging. It reminds me of when the devs made 'mindless' mobs have enhancements that actually work. Players that didn't know how to play against the smarter mobs were upset at first but now there isn't a peep about it at all. I look forward to a day when PvP isn't so vilified by a few so-called victims.

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“When you tear out a man's tongue, you are not proving him a liar, you're only telling the world that you fear what he might say.” -GRRM


#862 sweetlou

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Posted 27 July 2010 - 09:39

Works fine in MANY other games.

Then play THOSE games. Stop trying to change the one we have.

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“When you tear out a man's tongue, you are not proving him a liar, you're only telling the world that you fear what he might say.” -GRRM


#863 RebornJedi

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Posted 27 July 2010 - 09:54

Works fine in MANY other games.

Then play THOSE games. Stop trying to change the one we have.

Yea!!!!
Quit trying to add your own ideas when we are trying to do that as well!! shame..*shakes head*

 


#864 KitiaraLi

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Posted 27 July 2010 - 10:16

Yea!!!!
Quit trying to add your own ideas when we are trying to do that as well!! shame..*shakes head*


Trying to improve a game is one thing, trying to drastically alter it is another. I get Luis' frustration, since the most vocal in this thread are known anti-pvpers, who really just want a win key, and no chance for anyone to spoil their glory.

On the vacation mode idea.. well.. I kinda don't mind it much, but it will need a lotta thinking through b4 getting implemented. I can find a bunch of loopholes in the idea as it is presented above.

No one can deny that we changed this game and influenced it in such a way that NO ONE could compete with us.. so much so that they changed the rules. ~Abhorrence, chosen founder of Cerulean Sins


#865 fs_coyotik

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Posted 27 July 2010 - 10:43

Works fine in MANY other games.

Then play THOSE games. Stop trying to change the one we have.


Who's we? PvPers? Anybody except VTPitbull?

Every player has the same right to suggest changes to the game. Everybody is free to bring arguments forth. No single group "owns" the game.

Sadly, most PvPers here seem to be too focused on preserving their turf to even consider what would the impact of the suggested changes on the game be, too intent on convincing the rest that THEY are the only ones allowed to define what PvP is, happy to label people as anti-PvPers just because they don't PvP anymore.

I miss Phool with his open mind.

#866 Snowy900

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Posted 27 July 2010 - 10:49

Works fine in MANY other games.

Then play THOSE games. Stop trying to change the one we have.


Who's we? PvPers? Anybody except VTPitbull?

Every player has the same right to suggest changes to the game. Everybody is free to bring arguments forth. No single group "owns" the game.

Sadly, most PvPers here seem to be too focused on preserving their turf to even consider what would the impact of the suggested changes on the game be, too intent on convincing the rest that THEY are the only ones allowed to define what PvP is, happy to label people as anti-PvPers just because they don't PvP anymore.

I miss Phool with his open mind.


its not pvpers trying to define the game, its levellers trying to change the game to their advantage

#867 fs_coyotik

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Posted 27 July 2010 - 11:22

its not pvpers trying to define the game, its levellers trying to change the game to their advantage


I have shown above how the game evolution changed to the advantage of PvPers - so I don't think that reverting at least some of these changes would be unfair. BTW, many suggestions that appeared there don't actually give any "advantage" to levellers.

Yes, some do. Total opt-out from PvP is a radical one that would harm the game - and most of those who are labelled here as anti-PvPers, don't want that. No XP loss from all attacks, that's unnecessary.
Allowing victims to steal their gold back in 24 hours? Would be fair, but anyone knowing the combat system sees that it would not work very well...

But things like having PvP-rating-only attacks that are not bountiable, how does that hurt the game as it is now? It doesn't take away the possibility to hit for gold and XP... I'm quite sure that this would be actually VERY good change. It would serve as a great stam sink, there would be truckloads of people competing...
And where would it hurt real PvPers? Nowhere, because the existing PvP ladder is about anything but not PvP. Do they want a ladder for hardcore muggers? Sure, let's give them one.

#868 vtpitbull

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Posted 27 July 2010 - 11:24

Works fine in MANY other games.

Then play THOSE games. Stop trying to change the one we have.


Shouldn't you stop trying to change things as well? Or are only people who choose to agree with you allowed to do that? :roll:

#869 EJames2100

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Posted 27 July 2010 - 11:26

I don't quite agree with non bountieable attacks as all PvP should have some element of risk.
But I do fail to see why PvP Rating only attacks(Still bountieable) would hurt the game ?

#870 Snowy900

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Posted 27 July 2010 - 11:36


its not pvpers trying to define the game, its levellers trying to change the game to their advantage



But things like having PvP-rating-only attacks that are not bountiable, how does that hurt the game as it is now? It doesn't take away the possibility to hit for gold and XP... I'm quite sure that this would be actually VERY good change. It would serve as a great stam sink, there would be truckloads of people competing...
And where would it hurt real PvPers? Nowhere, because the existing PvP ladder is about anything but not PvP. Do they want a ladder for hardcore muggers? Sure, let's give them one.



most pvpers dont hit for pvp rating, they hit for the fun and thrill of working out how to get through someones defence and the then the possibility of trying to defend themselves on the bountyboard.

pvpers hit knowing full well that they could end up losing 5 levels for the hit they carry out

#871 Khanate

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Posted 27 July 2010 - 11:37

I also disagree with non-bountyable attacks. So many gold hits will go unpunished and the bounty board will lose too much activity.

#872 Khanate

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Posted 27 July 2010 - 11:45

Playing the victim isn't anything but playing on a common theme among players who despise PvP.


I agree, and so is calling everyone on the other side "anti-pvp'ers" or anything of the sort.

#873 fs_regnier7

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Posted 27 July 2010 - 11:59

Playing the victim isn't anything but playing on a common theme among players who despise PvP.


I agree, and so is calling everyone on the other side "anti-pvp'ers" or anything of the sort.



Both sides hunker down and start throwing out the same sort of arguments after awhile in these arguments. Both have been ignoring valid suggestions to improve or alter PvP for the best. lol


Shhh, Khanate.... it's funny. :D

#874 Khanate

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Posted 27 July 2010 - 12:33

Playing the victim isn't anything but playing on a common theme among players who despise PvP.


I agree, and so is calling everyone on the other side "anti-pvp'ers" or anything of the sort.



Both sides hunker down and start throwing out the same sort of arguments after awhile in these arguments. Both have been ignoring valid suggestions to improve or alter PvP for the best. lol


Shhh, Khanate.... it's funny. :D


*flings poo*

#875 fs_regnier7

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Posted 27 July 2010 - 12:35

SO not kool!!1!

:(

#876 Khanate

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Posted 27 July 2010 - 12:37

SO not kool!!1!

:(


ur a poo hater!!!!

#877 fs_regnier7

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Posted 27 July 2010 - 12:41

SO not kool!!1!

:(


ur a poo hater!!!!



Yus, that I r. :|

#878 fs_coyotik

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Posted 27 July 2010 - 12:48

most pvpers dont hit for pvp rating, they hit for the fun and thrill of working out how to get through someones defence and the then the possibility of trying to defend themselves on the bountyboard.

pvpers hit knowing full well that they could end up losing 5 levels for the hit they carry out


Gee, thanks for letting me know.

I also disagree with non-bountyable attacks. So many gold hits will go unpunished and the bounty board will lose too much activity.


Anyone suggested nonbountyable GOLD hits here? I hope not, I most certainly didn't.

I would just want to see PvP-rating-only hits.

1) Let's have a thief ladder (ratio of gold stolen per hit per level, daily).
2) Let's fix VL to reintroduce the "protection by force", meaning that if somebody is 6+ levels below you, they cannot harm you anymore. I don't care if it's done the way RebornJedi suggested or what I suggested (to fulfil the original goal of VL, which was to not allow somebody to have advantage in stat points when intentionally deleveled).
3) Let's have a "friendly" PvP rating (nonbountyable "taps", attack range could be increased). There could be two ladders, in fact, showing hit percentage on offense and defense, or one ladder combined. This would have absolutely no impact on classic PvP - it would be a brand new area for everyone.

#879 fs_sollimaw

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Posted 27 July 2010 - 13:03

most pvpers dont hit for pvp rating, they hit for the fun and thrill of working out how to get through someones defence and the then the possibility of trying to defend themselves on the bountyboard.

pvpers hit knowing full well that they could end up losing 5 levels for the hit they carry out


Gee, thanks for letting me know.

I also disagree with non-bountyable attacks. So many gold hits will go unpunished and the bounty board will lose too much activity.


Anyone suggested nonbountyable GOLD hits here? I hope not, I most certainly didn't.

I would just want to see PvP-rating-only hits.

1) Let's have a thief ladder (ratio of gold stolen per hit per level, daily).
2) Let's fix VL to reintroduce the "protection by force", meaning that if somebody is 6+ levels below you, they cannot harm you anymore. I don't care if it's done the way RebornJedi suggested or what I suggested (to fulfil the original goal of VL, which was to not allow somebody to have advantage in stat points when intentionally deleveled).
3) Let's have a "friendly" PvP rating (nonbountyable "taps", attack range could be increased). There could be two ladders, in fact, showing hit percentage on offense and defense, or one ladder combined. This would have absolutely no impact on classic PvP - it would be a brand new area for everyone.


Easiest to implement solution to the VL problem is to force players to unassign the level up points the moment they lose a level. Allow no other action to be taken until those points are manually unassigned. Easy and allows those players to choose their poison so to speak. This would also have an advantage in that those players could reassign those points when they leveled back up.

Its a win for both sides.

#880 fs_coyotik

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Posted 27 July 2010 - 13:10

yep, that's a possibility, too. Again much simpler than VL itself :) - AND it would be an option for misclicks - just lose to a mob intentionally and reassign the last 2 points :)


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