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PvP Ladder Suggestions (Take 3)


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#701 fs_gravely

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 22:08

Excuse me, but if remember correctly, you said " Being able to bounty every single hit simply opens the door for massive abuse."

What I said was "And explain to me how 8 x 100 stam hits on an offline player (no knowledge to be able to xp lock or get buffed or change equipment for stronger defense), who did nothing to no one, and had not much gold on hand is not abusive." That does not saying the PvP system is broken.


Please compare - you feel that losing 80% of a level is abuse, but that the potential to lose 40 full levels is not. Do you see how silly that looks?

I don't see anywhere in there that I said PvP is broken and to what level it is broken.


If I mix yellow and blue on the canvas, I still get green, even if I didn't start with it. Your ideas and suggestions indicate that you do feel PvP is very broken - certainly you envision a much harsher minimum response to pvp players. That's not a good or bad thing in and of itself, but that is what the sum of your statements can be taken to mean.

#702 Mister Doom

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 22:08

In regards to a cool down period, Grave's right, absolutely. It would add gravity to the decision, one. As in, do I really want to do this? Second, it would prevent abuse. As in attack, opt out. Attack, opt out. Which is something I can see happening. Not by any of my personal friends, but it's 100% sure some people would do that.


Unfortunately there is a fatal flaw in the opt-out 'completely' idea. People would still have to be able to be hit for gold. Possibly not taking damage to gear or exp loss. (I'm assuming they'd have no pvp rating after opting out anyways) Otherwise they would have to code is so pvp'ers and non pvp'ers could no longer even trade due the the gold protection issue..

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#703 avvakum

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 22:08

However seeing as they would also be able to opt out.. Erm, lol nm, yeah I could opt-out of the pvp discussions also.


No attention, no hero status of anti-pvper... survive? ;)

#704 Mister Doom

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 22:09

Please compare - you feel that losing 80% of a level is abuse, but that the potential to lose 40 full levels is not. Do you see how silly that looks?


The huge difference is one player chose to engage in pvp, the other did not, they were merely the unwilling victim. Hence the harsh punishment.

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#705 fs_gravely

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 22:10

Of course medals and such earned before the opt out would remain.


Actually, I don't think they should, but that's just me. Medals are just bragging rights, and why should you be able to brag and be completely pvp immune at the same time? Incidentally, I think that an opt out should also extend to the arena.

Doom, why would you want to have no part in it, but still expect to be able to tell other people how they should do it?


...bee, it's doom we're talking about here :lol:

#706 Mister Doom

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 22:11


No attention, no hero status of anti-pvper... survive? ;)


I know you like to cling to this perceived 'attention' you think I get, the truth of the matter is, I get more attention from you and a few others then I do from anywhere else. lol. I'm sure I would survive without my millions of adoring fans... :S

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#707 Mister Doom

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 22:13

Actually, I don't think they should, but that's just me. Medals are just bragging rights, and why should you be able to brag and be completely pvp immune at the same time? Incidentally, I think that an opt out should also extend to the arena.


Actually medals are icons to prove certain ingame achievements. Not sure on the pvp arena idea, its not nearly the same as anytime-anyplace pvp, as has been stated by many pvpers. I hate the thing personally but it doesn't affect rating, doesn't harm gear and you don't lose exp. No its completely different and shouldn't be affected.

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#708 fs_evfisher

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 22:17

Excuse me, but if remember correctly, you said " Being able to bounty every single hit simply opens the door for massive abuse."

What I said was "And explain to me how 8 x 100 stam hits on an offline player (no knowledge to be able to xp lock or get buffed or change equipment for stronger defense), who did nothing to no one, and had not much gold on hand is not abusive." That does not saying the PvP system is broken.


Please compare - you feel that losing 80% of a level is abuse, but that the potential to lose 40 full levels is not. Do you see how silly that looks?

I don't see anywhere in there that I said PvP is broken and to what level it is broken.


If I mix yellow and blue on the canvas, I still get green, even if I didn't start with it. Your ideas and suggestions indicate that you do feel PvP is very broken - certainly you envision a much harsher minimum response to pvp players. That's not a good or bad thing in and of itself, but that is what the sum of your statements can be taken to mean.


This whole entire thread is about broken parts of PvP Gravely. And, if as I have been told repeatedly by hard core PvPers is true, then you won't mind losing the levels, because you knew what the potential recourse could be. Otherwise, why would you attack in the first place?

Attack someone today, get placed on the bounty board. Attack the same someone tomorrow, get placed on the bounty board. The same for the next 6 days. And what do you have, 8 bounties, with 10x10 hits. Attack 8 someones in one day, and get bountied 8 times, and what do you get, 8 at 10x10. What is the difference? Is that saying the PvP is broken? Is that saying what I am proposing is silly?

#709 fs_gravely

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 22:18

Actually medals are icons to prove certain ingame achievements. Not sure on the pvp arena idea, its not nearly the same as anytime-anyplace pvp, as has been stated by many pvpers. I hate the thing personally but it doesn't affect rating, doesn't harm gear and you don't lose exp. No its completely different and shouldn't be affected.


Medals prove achievement, but that's just another form of bragging. If all you really cared about was the achievement, you'd internalize it. If you know, and it isn't for the purposes of bragging, what does it matter if a half inch square icon is on your profile or not?

As for the arena, it is different, but it is also still player versus player. If it was included, it would do two things - 1, protect the value of arena gear and 2, make people think twice before quickly grabbing the mantle of PvP immunity.

#710 Mister Doom

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 22:21

Medals prove achievement, but that's just another form of bragging. If all you really cared about was the achievement, you'd internalize it. If you know, and it isn't for the purposes of bragging, what does it matter if a half inch square icon is on your profile or not?


To be perfectly honest I don't use medals to brag, its more of an OCD thing.

As for the arena, it is different, but it is also still player versus player. If it was included, it would do two things - 1, protect the value of arena gear and 2, make people think twice before quickly grabbing the mantle of PvP immunity.


I kinda figured that was the reasoning, to cling to at least 'some' potential targets. I think the arena and general pvp are dissimilar enough to not be tarred with the same brush however and opting out of one should not affect the other. But thats just my opinion.

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#711 fs_gravely

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 22:23

This whole entire thread is about broken parts of PvP Gravely. And, if as I have been told repeatedly by hard core PvPers is true, then you won't mind losing the levels, because you knew what the potential recourse could be. Otherwise, why would you attack in the first place?


Round and round the merry go round.

Yes, the hard cores will probably still stick around. But the reason that HCS is trying to fix PvP in any way (rating, mostly, not the basic underpinnings you want changed) is to make it more inclusive. Your suggestions would make it very ex-clusive, which you don't seem to grasp.

Attack someone today, get placed on the bounty board. Attack the same someone tomorrow, get placed on the bounty board. The same for the next 6 days. And what do you have, 8 bounties, with 10x10 hits. Attack 8 someones in one day, and get bountied 8 times, and what do you get, 8 at 10x10. What is the difference? Is that saying the PvP is broken? Is that saying what I am proposing is silly?


Progressive loss is involved. If a player attacks another player, and that player loses 5 as a result, the individual in question has an opportunity to evaluate their options and decide if it is worth going forward. If a player attacks another player and is down 40 levels, that may well result in character death as the player loses interest and quits. No one wins in that situation, especially if the PvP player has friends to take the delevelers to task for every single bounty hit.

#712 Mister Doom

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 22:26

Progressive loss is involved. If a player attacks another player, and that player loses 5 as a result, the individual in question has an opportunity to evaluate their options and decide if it is worth going forward. If a player attacks another player and is down 40 levels, that may well result in character death as the player loses interest and quits. No one wins in that situation, especially if the PvP player has friends to take the delevelers to task for every single bounty hit.


Well then the answer is simple, you don't make consecutive attacks. And if you do and you lose 'that many' levels then you have already weighed your options, decided that your victim deserves the risk. A player that takes all this into consideration is highly unlikely to quit.

Also with Hoofs ideas on counterbounties this bolded part would be much less of an issue.

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#713 fs_gravely

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 22:26

To be perfectly honest I don't use medals to brag, its more of an OCD thing.


lol, okay.

I kinda figured that was the reasoning, to cling to at least 'some' potential targets. I think the arena and general pvp are dissimilar enough to not be tarred with the same brush however and opting out of one should not affect the other. But thats just my opinion.


As a player who willingly engages in all aspects of the game to a greater or lesser extent, I should have advantages to being open to all forms of the game. Arena access may well be that advantage. If you want out of the bad parts, you should have consequences for that. That may be distasteful to you, but the game has never been a non PvP game, and anyone who got to level 100 and then spent money on the game after that with the understanding it would or should change has no one but themselves to blame.

#714 avvakum

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 22:27



No attention, no hero status of anti-pvper... survive? ;)


I know you like to cling to this perceived 'attention' you think I get, the truth of the matter is, I get more attention from you and a few others then I do from anywhere else. lol. I'm sure I would survive without my millions of adoring fans... :S


lol so many players got the idea of leaving the guild I love so much and activity in the forums according to the movie.. and you don't? lol

#715 fs_gravely

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 22:28

Well then the answer is simple, you don't make consecutive attacks. And if you do and you lose 'that many' levels then you have already weighed your options, decided that your victim deserves the risk. A player that takes all this into consideration is highly unlikely to quit.


This won't get implemented, but if it ever did, I would laugh my face off the first time someone WK didn't like cleared a WK bounty. It would be absolutely hilarious.

Back to the bad old days of uncapped BB loss, I guess.

#716 Mister Doom

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 22:30

As a player who willingly engages in all aspects of the game to a greater or lesser extent, I should have advantages to being open to all forms of the game. Arena access may well be that advantage. If you want out of the bad parts, you should have consequences for that. That may be distasteful to you, but the game has never been a non PvP game, and anyone who got to level 100 and then spent money on the game after that with the understanding it would or should change has no one but themselves to blame.


The thing is opting out of pvp (the only damaging part of FS) is simply choosing not to play one small aspect, the opted out players will still be able to take part in numerous activities in FS, so they should also have this 'multi-taskers' advantage too.

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#717 fs_evfisher

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 22:30

This whole entire thread is about broken parts of PvP Gravely. And, if as I have been told repeatedly by hard core PvPers is true, then you won't mind losing the levels, because you knew what the potential recourse could be. Otherwise, why would you attack in the first place?


Round and round the merry go round.

Yes, the hard cores will probably still stick around. But the reason that HCS is trying to fix PvP in any way (rating, mostly, not the basic underpinnings you want changed) is to make it more inclusive. Your suggestions would make it very ex-clusive, which you don't seem to grasp.

Attack someone today, get placed on the bounty board. Attack the same someone tomorrow, get placed on the bounty board. The same for the next 6 days. And what do you have, 8 bounties, with 10x10 hits. Attack 8 someones in one day, and get bountied 8 times, and what do you get, 8 at 10x10. What is the difference? Is that saying the PvP is broken? Is that saying what I am proposing is silly?


Progressive loss is involved. If a player attacks another player, and that player loses 5 as a result, the individual in question has an opportunity to evaluate their options and decide if it is worth going forward. If a player attacks another player and is down 40 levels, that may well result in character death as the player loses interest and quits. No one wins in that situation, especially if the PvP player has friends to take the delevelers to task for every single bounty hit.


Again, you are quoting without quoting. How will what I have suggested, make it exclusive.

OK, progressive is involved in this also. No difference. You attacked, you knew you would get bountied, you knew you might lose 5, so you have the opportunity to evaluate your options and decide if it worth going forward. Then, if you decide it is worth it to lose 5 more, then attack again, and get bountied again. What you are saying, is it should be okay for you to attack someone 8 times, with 1 posting. Try going out and attacking 8 different players, and see if they feel like only 1 of them should post you. It's simply not washing Gravely. You want your cake, and you want to eat it also, and all I am saying, is if you want 8 cakes, then you should eat all 8 of them.

#718 Bunnybee

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 22:31

I think arena should be part of the opt out as well, I hadn't thought about that. No player vs. player should be NO player vs. player, period. Not mincing through and picking what satisfies your personal risk/profit margin.

I still feel like it would be fine for people to keep whatever medals they had gotten before the opt out. In addition, there might be some sort of stamp on your profile indicating you had opted out. That, plus a medal, would only look kind of odd. Like a crystal BH medal does with waaaay fewer than 10,000 bounty kills. The award loses it's sparkle. But you did at some point earn it. So keep it.

#719 Mister Doom

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 22:32

lol so many players got the idea of leaving the guild I love so much and activity in the forums according to the movie.. and you don't? lol


I have no idea what you are talking about, seriously. :?

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#720 Mister Doom

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 22:33

I think arena should be part of the opt out as well, I hadn't thought about that. No player vs. player should be NO player vs. player, period. Not mincing through and picking what satisfies your personal risk/profit margin.

I still feel like it would be fine for people to keep whatever medals they had gotten before the opt out. In addition, there might be some sort of stamp on your profile indicating you had opted out. That, plus a medal, would only look kind of odd. Like a crystal BH medal does with waaaay fewer than 10,000 bounty kills. The award loses it's sparkle. But you did at some point earn it. So keep it.


Perhaps, it is actually the only thing that would make the decision hard for a lot of people. Not me, I suck at the arena..

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