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PvP Ladder Suggestions (Take 3)


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#741 fs_gravely

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 23:11

Now you're getting it... That is exactly what Hoof himself is proposing.


Okay, so the next time WK gets to bounty someone, that person is down 5 levels without any real chance of retribution.

With that change, you've essentially made it so that PvP guilds will now focus less on hourly hits, but get away scott free on the bounty boards. Lure people into hitting back, then stomp their nuts in on the board, and never get more than 10 stammed back. From a counter bounty perspective, you get 15 people to take the counter bounty and still take levels.

You have no idea how to 'fix' the system, and it's really quite amusing to see you try :lol:

#742 Bleltch

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 23:13

Yes? Someone had placed the target, if they choose 100 stam as the means of punishment then presto, your become the retribution. It even applies right now I guess. If most bounty placers are honest they aren't going to lose sleep if their attackers get 100 stammed.


Okay, so I 100 stam someone on the board for a guildmate. I take 2 levels, by myself.

I can only get 10 stam counter bountied? :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


Now you're getting it... That is exactly what Hoof himself is proposing.

That was from an earlier thread wasn't it? I think he tossed out that idea as it isn't included in the first post of this thread as far as i can see.

Hi all,

I've been reading over the feedback so far and here are my thoughts...

I think we should ditch the idea of the loyalty potion that protects from PvP. I wasn't overly sold on this idea in the first place to be honest.

Also I think there should be a minimum number of attacks on the bounty board - most likely 10, as this will help reduce any abuse of it for PvP Rating transfer in conjunction with the other suggestion change for only applying the transfer to the player that actually completes the bounty.

Please keep your feedback and suggestions coming. We are listening :)

- hoof

#743 Mister Doom

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 23:14

Now you're getting it... That is exactly what Hoof himself is proposing.


You have no idea how to 'fix' the system, and it's really quite amusing to see you try :lol:


Seriously Gravely, read, its not my proposal. Besides, I'm sure now that particular loophole has been pointed it out it wouldn't be too difficult to code it so BH's are only able to lose 1 level max from a counter-bounty..

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#744 EJames2100

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 23:14

True, that was phale.

As well as that, I suggest throwing the 10 Stam Counter Bounty away and make it so it would be the same as PvP and you could be bountied up to how much Stamina you used in the attacks.

#745 fs_evfisher

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 23:14

Now you're getting it... That is exactly what Hoof himself is proposing.


Okay, so the next time WK gets to bounty someone, that person is down 5 levels without any real chance of retribution.

With that change, you've essentially made it so that PvP guilds will now focus less on hourly hits, but get away scott free on the bounty boards. Lure people into hitting back, then stomp their nuts in on the board, and never get more than 10 stammed back. From a counter bounty perspective, you get 15 people to take the counter bounty and still take levels.

You have no idea how to 'fix' the system, and it's really quite amusing to see you try :lol:


You could always do the same thing the guild you mentioned did.

#746 Mister Doom

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 23:16

That was from an earlier thread wasn't it? I think he tossed out that idea as it isn't included in the first post of this thread as far as i can see.


You're reading it wrong, he's notifying you of ideas that have been scrapped from 'take 2' thats why it says "I think we should ditch the idea of the loyalty potion that protects from PvP." Not, "We have ditched all of the previous ideas and here are some new ones."

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#747 fs_gravely

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 23:17

:)

Ask Stags and Crixes1 about countering, sometime.

Last general reply post, ev, since you seem to have ignored the fact that retribution is already available in a vastly disproportionate form, and your suggestion would make truly unreasonable amounts of level damage possible.

And again, I have to say, if you are going to hit someone for whatever reason, you had better be able to pay the price. Not hide behind being on the BB already. I am simply saying, if you hit me, I want the option to use the BB for what it was intended. To use hoof's very own words, "retribution". Be that 1 time, or 8 times, or 20 times. Right now, a PvPer could hit a target as many times as they want, every hour on the hour for 24 hours, for 100 stam, and as long as that player has a bounty up on that PvPer, then he cannot be bountied again. That is the plain and simple truth of it.


And how many players are going to be online 24 hours? And be able to hit multiple players with 4800 stamina in that time frame (over twice their gain?) How many times are they deflected? Two percented? Beaten because the target came online, swapped to a suicide suit, got force shield, DC, and last ditch, and managed to get a piercing strike?

You make it sound like the ultimate evil and simultaneously the easiest thing to do in the world, neither one of which is true.

#748 fs_gravely

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 23:19

Oooh, couldn't resist.

You could always do the same thing the guild you mentioned did.


And isn't that true of anyone RIGHT NOW, in the current environment you're so unhappy with? :lol:

#749 fs_gravely

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 23:20

True, that was phale.

As well as that, I suggest throwing the 10 Stam Counter Bounty away and make it so it would be the same as PvP and you could be bountied up to how much Stamina you used in the attacks.


Honestly, EJ, I think that starts getting very complicated. Means the game will have to store information regarding who hit whom for how much, and maintain that for at LEAST 48 hours.

#750 fs_gravely

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 23:22

Seriously Gravely, read, its not my proposal. Besides, I'm sure now that particular loophole has been pointed it out it wouldn't be too difficult to code it so BH's are only able to lose 1 level max from a counter-bounty..


Hoof proposed the limitation to counter bounties. He had nothing to do with the second idea that makes that so problematic, the ability to bounty any attack.

Personally, counter bounties should be left alone - it's a rare counter that includes deleveling anyway.

#751 fs_evfisher

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 23:26

:)

Ask Stags and Crixes1 about countering, sometime.

Last general reply post, ev, since you seem to have ignored the fact that retribution is already available in a vastly disproportionate form, and your suggestion would make truly unreasonable amounts of level damage possible.

And again, I have to say, if you are going to hit someone for whatever reason, you had better be able to pay the price. Not hide behind being on the BB already. I am simply saying, if you hit me, I want the option to use the BB for what it was intended. To use hoof's very own words, "retribution". Be that 1 time, or 8 times, or 20 times. Right now, a PvPer could hit a target as many times as they want, every hour on the hour for 24 hours, for 100 stam, and as long as that player has a bounty up on that PvPer, then he cannot be bountied again. That is the plain and simple truth of it.


And how many players are going to be online 24 hours? And be able to hit multiple players with 4800 stamina in that time frame (over twice their gain?) How many times are they deflected? Two percented? Beaten because the target came online, swapped to a suicide suit, got force shield, DC, and last ditch, and managed to get a piercing strike?

You make it sound like the ultimate evil and simultaneously the easiest thing to do in the world, neither one of which is true.


Again Gravely, stags and crixes exercised their bountying options, and did not bring it to me. Perhaps if you had sent them a message saying you were going to 10 stam clear their bounty, then they might not have, I don't know, I don't play their game.

Again, PvPers know the price they might ultimately pay, when they decide to PvP.

And I know that scenario is an ultimate extreme scenario, but I have (on previous occasions) been on this game for 24 hours. And, 24 x100 stam hits is only 2400 stamina, not 4800, which, with the max stam gain equipment equipped at the right time, they would still gain stam. And most PvPers, know how to get around every setup available in the game.

#752 fs_gravely

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 23:30

And I know that scenario is an ultimate extreme scenario, but I have (on previous occasions) been on this game for 24 hours. And, 24 x100 stam hits is only 2400 stamina, not 4800, which, with the max stam gain equipment equipped at the right time, they would still gain stam. And most PvPers, know how to get around every setup available in the game.


Apologies, I misread your post, I thought you said targetS, not target. I was giving an example for multiple targets, which would be 4800.

As for PvPers getting 100 stam gain, I must admit I think I know of 3 with access to 100 stam gain, and all of them are high level and disinclined to hourly someone in their range for that length of time.

#753 fs_evfisher

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 23:33

And I know that scenario is an ultimate extreme scenario, but I have (on previous occasions) been on this game for 24 hours. And, 24 x100 stam hits is only 2400 stamina, not 4800, which, with the max stam gain equipment equipped at the right time, they would still gain stam. And most PvPers, know how to get around every setup available in the game.


Apologies, I misread your post, I thought you said targetS, not target. I was giving an example for multiple targets, which would be 4800.

As for PvPers getting 100 stam gain, I must admit I think I know of 3 with access to 100 stam gain, and all of them are high level and disinclined to hourly someone in their range for that length of time.


No problem on the misread, happens all the time. :)

I have many mates in my guild who have them, not even my high level, and they are also disinclined to hourly someone. LOL :)

#754 Khanate

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 23:37

Still no acknowledgement that exp losses need to go both ways? This is going nowhere and fast.

#755 fs_gravely

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 23:39

I have many mates in my guild who have them, not even my high level, and they are also disinclined to hourly someone. LOL :)


Considering the price of investment, and the fact that the consequences of hourly hitting someone and the marginal benefits of epic gear are DIRECTLY contradictory, that isn't really surprising :lol:

#756 fs_evfisher

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 23:41

Still no acknowledgement that exp losses need to go both ways? This is going nowhere and fast.


I think that has been supported many times already Khanate.

#757 fs_gravely

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 23:42

Still no acknowledgement that exp losses need to go both ways? This is going nowhere and fast.


I thought that got agreed to forever ago :D

#758 Maehdros

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 23:43

With that said, your still missing XP loss for attacking downwards or upwards. Make it fair.


I don't see an issue with implementing this, especially in the higher band of PvP when it goes to +/- 10 levels for the attack range.



Yep hoof knows :)

#759 Bleltch

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 23:43


I've proposed just making it harder to punish bounty hunters with counter-bounties. What's your objection to that? It would encourage more people to, for example, both level and bounty hunt.

Bounty hunting is pvp, and as such should have the same risk as any other pvp attack. And i say this as the games most prolific bounty hunter.


Seeing what guild you are in, I have to ask: are you actually the most prolific conter-bounty hunter?
I had to ask my guildmates if you were in on the deleveling counter-bounty partys your guild did to them.

I think it's a good bet i've been counter bountyed more than any other hunter. But i dont have any way to back that up. As for what you're going on about........ blahblah.

#760 fs_gravely

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 23:44

Well, we've seen some arguements the risk of bounty hunting should not be decreased: that that would undemine the "honor" of the bounty hunters. You can be counter-bountied multiple times on a bounty as it is now. So if you are arguing that being a bounty hunter ought to be made safer, you won't hear me disagree.


Way to take .01% of the conversation out of context to twist it to your own uses.


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