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PvP Ladder Thoughts... (Take 2)


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Poll: Do you like these ideas as a whole? (115 member(s) have cast votes)

Do you like these ideas as a whole?

  1. Voted Yes (76 votes [60.32%])

    Percentage of vote: 60.32%

  2. Voted No (50 votes [39.68%])

    Percentage of vote: 39.68%

Vote

#321 fs_chibibucky

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 05:53

The only thing I am not sure of is number 3 and I am sure that HCS will do what is right in that regard



that is actually the only one that bothers me too and the real reason im voting no as it stands. im good with the other 3 but having an uneven PvP ratings flow will be just like when the XP loss was decided by level.

ive been on the board and had players force me into a suicide set and a level 102 get a hit in trying to get rating. im not into the ratings thing right now at least until it all this is straightened out but if i was i would hate to lose a lot of points i worked hard for because of a low level and a cheap shot. im not voting no even though i like the rest of this threads ideas. it seems unfair like the XP loss used to be.

#322 fs_gravely

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 06:13

ive been on the board and had players force me into a suicide set and a level 102 get a hit in trying to get rating. im not into the ratings thing right now at least until it all this is straightened out but if i was i would hate to lose a lot of points i worked hard for because of a low level and a cheap shot. im not voting no even though i like the rest of this threads ideas. it seems unfair like the XP loss used to be.


Chibi, lower levels won't gain extra rating from you - if they attack you, and they lose, you'll earn normal rating.

You just won't be able to farm a level 100 for 20 rating a pop.

#323 fs_anythingel

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 06:18

I believe by voting if you agree to most of what is proposed and then stating which proposal you are concerned about is much better than not voting at all. It gives HCS feedback on each proposed point that one is accepting and which ones there are still concerns about

#324 fs_eddyd

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 06:41

Current flaw with the Bounty Board: The Max Stam column on the Bounty Board does not represent the maximum stamina allowed to do the bounty it corresponds to, I'm pretty sure this column represents the maximum number of hits required for the bounty, which will always be 10. My guildmate was posted on the Bounty Board, and it said the max stam was 10, but he was 100 stammed during the bounty. I'm sure it's just a simple mistake, but it should be addressed accordingly.

#325 fs_commiedevo

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 06:42

Hi all,

To summise what is being discussed in the other thread - here is what we are currenly look at doing - note this isn't set in stone however - please continue to discuss it on this thread.

Suggested Changes to PvP Ladder

1) Make the ending time random to prevent last minute attempts to boost the PvP rating.

2) Change the bounty board back so that all PvP hits confer a rating adjustment rather than just the final completer of the bounty.

3) Apply a reduction in PvP rating transfer to bounties, dependant on how much higher the attacking player is above the bounty target.

4) Remove stamina limitations from bounties.

All these points are still up for discussion however - please discuss here :)

~ The Fallen Sword Team


1. Elegant solution. As long as its not always the same day but random time on that day. It should be a random day, random hour, random minute. No one will be able to predict it and beef up their rating specifically for the end.

2. Yes. IF AND ONLY IF all rating gained on the board is drastically reduced.

3. Yes. Its only fair. A level 700 attacking a level 200 isnt really working hard, while a level 200 clearing a level 700 is.

4. Thank god.


+++1

#326 fs_commiedevo

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 06:46

Soooooo about the VL and ability to take Xp thing....


1000% agreed.

Give levelers some much needed defense.


Easiest solution to this is to scrap VL altogether. Just force players to deassign level up and skill points the moment they are deleveled. No other page will load until this is done. Everything redirects to the "You have lost a level" screen.


+1

But as an addendum, I think it might be easier just to take a snapshot of point assignments each time a level is gained and auto-deassign the 2 points where they were last put. So, if when you turned level 301, you put 2 points in damage, if you are deleveled to 300, you have 2 less damage points. Saves time and it's simple.

#327 Removed22342

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 06:51

Suggested Changes to PvP Ladder

1) Make the ending time random to prevent last minute attempts to boost the PvP rating.


Yes.

2) Change the bounty board back so that all PvP hits confer a rating adjustment rather than just the final completer of the bounty.


Sure, haven't really followed the discussion but don't see why this would be bad.

3) Apply a reduction in PvP rating transfer to bounties, dependant on how much higher the attacking player is above the bounty target.


Yes! But since higher levels seems concerned, why not make off the board attacks take into account the number of available targets giving them a carrot to do some actual PvP:ing? I.e you have a lot you gain less per hit, you have few you gain more ... with a sensible maximum value in case there's only one other in range, lol. Maybe not so good but meh, would only work if you're able to keep some rating even after getting bountied anyway.

4) Remove stamina limitations from bounties.


Yes! Not sure what this has to do with the ladder but I voted yes in the other thread as well.

#328 KitiaraLi

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 07:17

1) Make the ending time random to prevent last minute attempts to boost the PvP rating.

I am still against this reset idea, and would prefer a decay. But this is at least better than what is right now.

2) Change the bounty board back so that all PvP hits confer a rating adjustment rather than just the final completer of the bounty.

Yes please, but fix the rating transfer. Earning 544 rating points with 265 hits on 19 bounties (b4 the 20hitters were removed), and then having 157 points removed by a 10 hit counter bounty is rigoddamnediculous.

3) Apply a reduction in PvP rating transfer to bounties, dependent on how much higher the attacking player is above the bounty target.

Hmm... sure.. this would greatly benefit those at lower lvls.

Wouldn't you say it was harder for a lower level to defeat a higher level due to the availability of items etc.?

Depends on how much lower. At lvl 400 or so, it is not impossible to combine gear and buffs to beat a lvl 900.

It don't see it as penalizing higher levels. Firstly it only affects the bounty board, as normally the +/- 20 level range would not be enough to confer a reduction. Secondly, it would be much easier for a level 300 player for example to defeat a bounty target that is level 100, hence a reduction in the PvP rating transfer would reflect the skill involved in the battle (hope this makes sense!) :)

It makes sense, but it is penalizing the higher lvls, since we have only a few targets to smack for rating, and with this implemented, we wouldn't get any from the board either. Oh, and we would loose it all on the first bounty placed for hitting off the board.

Just to be clear, the reduction should only be in effect for major differences in level right? Something like... 25% of the player's level for above level 100.

Indeed - we'll finalize the actual ranges and reductions later - we're just looking for discussion/opinions on the overall idea at the moment :)


This is in a sense taking away bounty hunting for anyone above lvl 800, if they're after rating. It oughta be enough that we already have to pay insane ticket prices to undertake bounties at lvl 400-500 where it seems the most action is.

And for the love of cows, do not make a reverse rating gain, where the lower lvls get more from the higher lvls! As written above, it would devastate the rating of any high lvl players to get cleared by a lvl 400ish.

4) Remove stamina limitations from bounties.

Yes yes yes yes yes!


I maintain my suggestion of removing the PvP ladder tokens relation to PvP rating! Rename it into PvP tokens, and make it 1 token per kill, on/off board - also including defensive kills. At the same time bounce up the prices for the pvp rewards.. make it similar to the loyalty rewards.
The rating already has a medal in the end of it, just widen the dominance medal to a top 10 to ease the tension on it.

Any player PvPing off the board will earn a rather small sum of PvP rating, and at this time, it will only take 1-2 bounties to strip it all away again, if the takers of the bounty has a lower pvp rating. This is not rewarding the PvPers, this is punishing the PvPers.

No one can deny that we changed this game and influenced it in such a way that NO ONE could compete with us.. so much so that they changed the rules. ~Abhorrence, chosen founder of Cerulean Sins


#329 fs_sollimaw

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 07:19

Easiest solution to this is to scrap VL altogether. Just force players to deassign level up and skill points the moment they are deleveled. No other page will load until this is done. Everything redirects to the "You have lost a level" screen.


+1

But as an addendum, I think it might be easier just to take a snapshot of point assignments each time a level is gained and auto-deassign the 2 points where they were last put. So, if when you turned level 301, you put 2 points in damage, if you are deleveled to 300, you have 2 less damage points. Saves time and it's simple.


Then you are forcing HCS to keep track of what people spend their level up points on at each and every level. Even though its just a few integers, the storage required for that is huge.

Forcing people to de-allocate immediately removes the need for clunky VL calculations, and it also has the added benefit of allowing people to choose which points to lose. Even bigger benefit is that they could reassign those points anywhere once they leveled up again. It would make more PvPers willing to lose levels just for the ability to shift a few points around. Heck, I even know a few levelers who have misclicked and put a point where they didnt want to. With this, just lose a level and you can fix that mistake easily.

#330 fs_thorgrun

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 07:21

Yes please, but fix the rating transfer. Earning 544 rating points with 265 hits on 19 bounties (b4 the 20hitters were removed), and then having 157 points removed by a 10 hit counter bounty is rigoddamnediculous.


LMAO true that >=P

#331 fs_pinkgoblin

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 07:31

You guys FORGOT to stop punishing bounty hunters with xp loss. :(

#332 Removed22342

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 07:34

Easiest solution to this is to scrap VL altogether. Just force players to deassign level up and skill points the moment they are deleveled. No other page will load until this is done. Everything redirects to the "You have lost a level" screen.


+1

But as an addendum, I think it might be easier just to take a snapshot of point assignments each time a level is gained and auto-deassign the 2 points where they were last put. So, if when you turned level 301, you put 2 points in damage, if you are deleveled to 300, you have 2 less damage points. Saves time and it's simple.


Then you are forcing HCS to keep track of what people spend their level up points on at each and every level. Even though its just a few integers, the storage required for that is huge.

Forcing people to de-allocate immediately removes the need for clunky VL calculations, and it also has the added benefit of allowing people to choose which points to lose. Even bigger benefit is that they could reassign those points anywhere once they leveled up again. It would make more PvPers willing to lose levels just for the ability to shift a few points around. Heck, I even know a few levelers who have misclicked and put a point where they didnt want to. With this, just lose a level and you can fix that mistake easily.


You would loose skill points too if you loose level up points.

#333 Removed22342

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 07:35

You guys FORGOT to stop punishing bounty hunters with xp loss. :(


That was the first thing they removed.

#334 fs_sollimaw

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 07:39

Easiest solution to this is to scrap VL altogether. Just force players to deassign level up and skill points the moment they are deleveled. No other page will load until this is done. Everything redirects to the "You have lost a level" screen.


You would loose skill points too if you loose level up points.



Yes you would and it says that. Thats not a terrible thing either. I know a few people who have put 150 points into imp by mistake. Lose a few levels, and problem solved.

#335 Removed22342

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 07:43

Easiest solution to this is to scrap VL altogether. Just force players to deassign level up and skill points the moment they are deleveled. No other page will load until this is done. Everything redirects to the "You have lost a level" screen.


You would loose skill points too if you loose level up points.



Yes you would and it says that. Thats not a terrible thing either. I know a few people who have put 150 points into imp by mistake. Lose a few levels, and problem solved.


Would make it pretty bad to PvP around skill levels, ability to cast buffs are restricted by VL today, how would that work?

#336 RebornJedi

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 07:45

Because the pvp ladder is basically a Bounty Hunter ladder, i think we should come up for ways to promote more pvp between players off the board. PvP as in Player versus Player as it should be a two way 'conversation'

giving the ability to attack for ONLY pvp rating off the board would be a good place to start...this way, when i attack someone they aren't taking the hit so personal. they might even attack my pvp rating back. also since xp loss now occurs both ways, i would like the ability to just attack for rating. i personally don't want nor think experience loss should occur with ALL types of pvp attacks..plus take out PvP prestige from the attack to get rid of the potential of abuse



(would love to have what my signature says but ill leave that out of this....for now :twisted: mwhahahaha)

 


#337 Trailman

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 07:54

This is somewhat off topic but I am sure related to the changes. Anyone else notice that their xp in game has been reduced? My guild contributed xp is now higher them my character xp :shock:

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#338 Pratish85

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 07:59


1) Make the ending time random to prevent last minute attempts to boost the PvP rating.
Yes please, would help a lot, well that and knowing what the resources make:)

2) Change the bounty board back so that all PvP hits confer a rating adjustment rather than just the final completer of the bounty.
Yes, annoying when you gain nothing but a little gold.

3) Apply a reduction in PvP rating transfer to bounties, dependant on how much higher the attacking player is above the bounty target.
Yeah, don't see no problem since they are attacking a higher level.

4) Remove stamina limitations from bounties.
Yeah, would be nice to have free ability to attack.

+1

#339 RebornJedi

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 07:59

This is somewhat off topic but I am sure related to the changes. Anyone else notice that their xp in game has been reduced? My guild contributed xp is now higher them my character xp :shock:

you know you have a 'K' next to your xp amount, right? check out your Chief of Chiefs to see how close it is to your guilds xp

 


#340 Pratish85

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 08:00

Because the pvp ladder is basically a Bounty Hunter ladder, i think we should come up for ways to promote more pvp between players off the board. PvP as in Player versus Player as it should be a two way 'conversation'

giving the ability to attack for ONLY pvp rating off the board would be a good place to start...this way, when i attack someone they aren't taking the hit so personal. they might even attack my pvp rating back. also since xp loss now occurs both ways, i would like the ability to just attack for rating. i personally don't want nor think experience loss should occur with ALL types of pvp attacks..plus take out PvP prestige from the attack to get rid of the potential of abuse



(would love to have what my signature says but ill leave that out of this....for now :twisted: mwhahahaha)


Where is the risk in that?
PvP rating for dummies?


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