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PvP Ladder Thoughts... (Take 2)


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Poll: Do you like these ideas as a whole? (115 member(s) have cast votes)

Do you like these ideas as a whole?

  1. Voted Yes (76 votes [60.32%])

    Percentage of vote: 60.32%

  2. Voted No (50 votes [39.68%])

    Percentage of vote: 39.68%

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#341 RebornJedi

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 08:01

Because the pvp ladder is basically a Bounty Hunter ladder, i think we should come up for ways to promote more pvp between players off the board. PvP as in Player versus Player as it should be a two way 'conversation'

giving the ability to attack for ONLY pvp rating off the board would be a good place to start...this way, when i attack someone they aren't taking the hit so personal. they might even attack my pvp rating back. also since xp loss now occurs both ways, i would like the ability to just attack for rating. i personally don't want nor think experience loss should occur with ALL types of pvp attacks..plus take out PvP prestige from the attack to get rid of the potential of abuse



(would love to have what my signature says but ill leave that out of this....for now :twisted: mwhahahaha)


Where is the risk in that?
PvP rating for dummies?

did i ever say anything about not being able to bounty the attacks?
and what about informational books? lol :lol:

 


#342 Trailman

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 08:04

This is somewhat off topic but I am sure related to the changes. Anyone else notice that their xp in game has been reduced? My guild contributed xp is now higher them my character xp :shock:

you know you have a 'K' next to your xp amount, right? check out your Chief of Chiefs to see how close it is to your guilds xp


Nope did not notice that thanks lol :lol:

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#343 Removed22342

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 08:18

Because the pvp ladder is basically a Bounty Hunter ladder, i think we should come up for ways to promote more pvp between players off the board. PvP as in Player versus Player as it should be a two way 'conversation'

giving the ability to attack for ONLY pvp rating off the board would be a good place to start...this way, when i attack someone they aren't taking the hit so personal. they might even attack my pvp rating back. also since xp loss now occurs both ways, i would like the ability to just attack for rating. i personally don't want nor think experience loss should occur with ALL types of pvp attacks..plus take out PvP prestige from the attack to get rid of the potential of abuse



(would love to have what my signature says but ill leave that out of this....for now :twisted: mwhahahaha)


Since there's too many ways to transfer things between characters in this game it needs to be regulated somehow (by XP loss for example in this case, be it by loosing it through a hit or risking getting a bounty placed on them), I know people used to trade/buy prestige hits when they were higher than the target not to cause any XP loss. I'd say prestige is working as intended now since someone has to loose something for it to be gained. I'd think that needs to be kept in rating too since you now can trade it for items that potentially can be very valuable and you still earn a medal if you have enough of them.

I'd love more opportunities to PvP, I think the idea of a combat pit where you can challenge whomever for a 10 hit combat, sorta like the one that occurs on the board, would be loads of fun. Rating would have to be out of the picture though since it would make it too easy to boost a characters rating.

#344 fs_kn0wpayne

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 09:09

PvP Ladder is misleading. This is obviously most Greatly advantageous to Bounty Hunters. These lol PvP tokens should be renamed BH tokens added to a weekly Bounty Hunters ladder, and another idea completely used for PvP!

PvP Ladder
10 Stam hit *outside of BB = No bounty, no gold gain. Small PvP gain, say 10 points max. and 1 PvP token.
50 Stam hit * = Can Bounty at 10 hits and 50 stam max. Moderate PvP gain, up to say 30 points. and 5 PvP tokens.
100 Stam hit * = Can Bounty at 10 hits (20 is excessive and takes way too long!), 100 Stam max clear, and Exceptional PvP gain up to say 50 pts. and 10 PvP tokens.

Rewards earned by who hits the most people in the allotted time. Period. Most Hits! Not farmed PvP, or tokens... Players killed outside of the BB!

Ladder rankings give top 10 rewards. 100, 50, 25, 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4... you get the idea!

Each level garners it's share of reward vs. risk making it fun again to PvP. And not HAVE to deal with serial bountiers at the lowest level.


This also ensures that not only the rich dominate the goodies (rewards) as in all other aspects of the game so far.

That said, why is there a Level max at all above yours to hit someone? Why if you're lvl 100 say, can't you hit a lvl 500? Hitting backwards is bullyish and kept for BB, forward is heroic, and bragging rights! Hey, if you can why not??

Just a couple thoughts, now... Hammer away at my ideas. hehe :>

#345 elmo2lars

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 09:14

So the issue is, that with all the changes we're basically back to square one, which is PvP rewards those that takes the least risks. Outside the no-risk PvP of the arena and GvG, bounty hunitng is the least risky form of PvP, as most times you won't be bountied back when clearing a bounty (I'm starting a movement to make counter-bountying the norm, join me at your own risk). This means that the top of the ladder, once again will primarily be made up of people who take low-risk bounties, as the rating system as it is is more about avoiding being hit, then actually hitting people. My suggestion therefore is this:

1. Keep the ladder as it is right now, but instead of a weekly reset, make a monthly one. (Just to keep things rolling). Also there will be no PvP-tokens rewarded on the ladder. The ladder is strictly for the dominance medal (which has no real meaning anyways).

2. Make a new ladder/list where the only things counted is the amount of PvP-rating EARNED every week. On this list you are only counting how much rating a player steals from others, and not how much they loose. By the end of the week award PvP-tokens to the top 50 on this list. Thereby rewarding those who are most active in PvP'ing and/or take the most risks. Note that the weeks winner of this list can end up having a very low rating as they might loos more rating then gained, but this will only effect the PvP-ladder.

3. (possiblee fututre adition): Add a medal for people who manage to end a week in top 10 of both ladders. This would be a true sign of great PvP'ing, being able to do well on both list, taking a lot of risks but protecting your rating at the same time. This could be added at any time after implementing 1 and 2, and 1 and 2 would work without it as well.


With this change I believe you would see an increase in overall PvP, less farming on non-PvP'ers (as the monthly reset leaves them with less rating to steal), less usage of the BB for rating farming (100 stamina used on 10 people, stealing their rating will usually net you more rating then 100 stam used on hitting one person 10 times.) Also as stated above the key-issue would be to put incentive into initiating attacks rather then avoiding being hit. I think a solution along these lines would help ensure this. Thanks for reading and I appreciate any comments ;)

#346 fs_spawn1979

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 09:15

The way I see this, you guys are trying to screw the game.
I'm seeing lots of changes to improve PvP, but I don't see nothing for those who simply don't want to be part of it.
I think you guys should arrange something for those who don't like PvP, like non pvp maps, get some non pvp server, ...
If this stays the way is going I'll stop playing, I had enough I don't appreciate that people keep attacking me for no reason ...
I don't even understand why you created Epic items to gain more stam per hour and now we can't even use them, this goes also for crystalline items, we need to wear and armor/defense gear for offline time.
Finally, I just think that this is unfair since I only see the PvP fans getting their way ...

#347 Pratish85

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 09:21

The way I see this, you guys are trying to screw the game.
I'm seeing lots of changes to improve PvP, but I don't see nothing for those who simply don't want to be part of it.
I think you guys should arrange something for those who don't like PvP, like non pvp maps, get some non pvp server, ...
If this stays the way is going I'll stop playing, I had enough I don't appreciate that people keep attacking me for no reason ...
I don't even understand why you created Epic items to gain more stam per hour and now we can't even use them, this goes also for crystalline items, we need to wear and armor/defense gear for offline time.
Finally, I just think that this is unfair since I only see the PvP fans getting their way ...


You just discovered it was a PvP Game?
May I suggest SS2?

#348 Dowster

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 09:27

Yeah, not being a part of pvp has never been an option in FS, it's never been proposed as being an option and it's never been considered as being proposed as being an option. So it's a little hard to understand why people keep complaining that it doesn't happen

Although a non pvp server might not be a bad idea, it would probably help to separate those who want to play an easy game from those who like a challenge, and would definitely cut down on a lot of arguments. At least that way it would be even more clear from the start exactly what you're getting into

#349 abhorrence

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 09:36

Nice changes but can you PLEASE .. PLEASE PLEASE... make some sort of adjustment for


VOLUME OF PVP

People that are gaining huge pvp numbers from 1 or 2 attacks, or 1 set of bounty clears are exploiting the system and it is not a indication of dominance, just an indication of a willingness to buy points.


Please consider

#350 Dowster

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 09:42

It's probably already here somewhere, but I can't see from scanning through the topic. How is pvp currently added for bounty clears - or more specifically when?

I did a few bouties yesterday, at least one against a lower level player and one against a higher level, both with higher ratings than myself. My own rating was 1000 when I started them, 1000 when I completed them, and 1000 when I logged off last night. This morning I logged on to find that my rating is 1172, so I cleared another bounty to see if I got anything on completion, and again 3 hours later there is no change to my rating. Do the pvp points only come out at night?

#351 abhorrence

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 09:46

It don't see it as penalizing higher levels. Firstly it only affects the bounty board, as normally the +/- 20 level range would not be enough to confer a reduction. Secondly, it would be much easier for a level 300 player for example to defeat a bounty target that is level 100, hence a reduction in the PvP rating transfer would reflect the skill involved in the battle (hope this makes sense!) :)


+-20 levels?!? is this a mistake or are you considering +-20 levels?

#352 abhorrence

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 09:49

It's probably already here somewhere, but I can't see from scanning through the topic. How is pvp currently added for bounty clears - or more specifically when?

I did a few bouties yesterday, at least one against a lower level player and one against a higher level, both with higher ratings than myself. My own rating was 1000 when I started them, 1000 when I completed them, and 1000 when I logged off last night. This morning I logged on to find that my rating is 1172, so I cleared another bounty to see if I got anything on completion, and again 3 hours later there is no change to my rating. Do the pvp points only come out at night?


The points are gained right after the bounty is cleared and by the winner only... but honestly I wouldn't get too fussed about it Dow until they get more things straightened out. It seems they might go back to gains and losses after every hit. (defending on a bounty gains you pvp when the attacker loses)

#353 Dowster

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 09:53

Ok thanks :)

The one I gained the reward on this morning must have been a no rating job then I think my target had a low 900 rating, so that must be why. Would definitely perfer it to be switched back to loss/gain per combat, hopefully it will go through as suggested

#354 Bubbajoe10

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 09:56

Hi all,

To summise what is being discussed in the other thread - here is what we are currenly look at doing - note this isn't set in stone however - please continue to discuss it on this thread.

Suggested Changes to PvP Ladder

1) Make the ending time random to prevent last minute attempts to boost the PvP rating.

2) Change the bounty board back so that all PvP hits confer a rating adjustment rather than just the final completer of the bounty.

3) Apply a reduction in PvP rating transfer to bounties, dependant on how much higher the attacking player is above the bounty target.

4) Remove stamina limitations from bounties.

All these points are still up for discussion however - please discuss here :)

~ The Fallen Sword Team


1)yes

2)no..this prevents pvp farming off the bounty board..stops the 1 or 2 hit bounty hunter

3)yes..good idea

4) no..if i hit you with 10..then a counter bounty on me should only be for 10..if i hit you for 100 then a counter bounty should be for 100...if i want to set up a bounty .. it should be known for what amount of stamina 10,50 or 100...let it be known that this is a de level.

#355 abhorrence

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 10:04

2)no..this prevents pvp farming off the bounty board..stops the 1 or 2 hit bounty hunter


Minimum bounty is a 10 hit now.

#356 sweetlou

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 10:28

Nice changes but can you PLEASE .. PLEASE PLEASE... make some sort of adjustment for


VOLUME OF PVP

People that are gaining huge pvp numbers from 1 or 2 attacks, or 1 set of bounty clears are exploiting the system and it is not a indication of dominance, just an indication of a willingness to buy points.


Please consider

With all the discussion about plain PvP and the BB, the rating transfer is the focus of how the PvP Ladder will be made the best it can be. I agree volume plays a big part how Dominance should be attained, and not just on the BB. As few targets as higher levels have there needs to be a stronger weight associated with direct PvP. It is where bountys originate. This would basically offset the advantages higher leveled players have with gear, points, buffs. I'm not saying do away with a 'win less' handicap for higher levels vs. lower ones on the BB but just make it a small % handicap per level band.

Also besides volume, STAM USAGE, needs to be taken into account. Please don't try to tell me a player using 100 stams at anytime isn't more dominant. I believe 100 stamming a player should have as much if not more weight as the buff gloat with regard to rating transfer.

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#357 kingtyrin

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 10:32

Also besides volume, STAM USAGE, needs to be taken into account. Please don't try to tell me a player using 100 stams at anytime isn't more dominant. I believe 100 stamming a player should have as much if not more weight as the buff gloat with regard to rating transfer.

+1

More stamina used to gain rating would deter 10 stam traders and farmers.

A bit off topic, but it would be nice if they tweaked gloat and honer so you lose more XP when you have them on :twisted: Buffs to determine how good you are at pvp is just silly, but it would seem its too late to nerf them, so an extra cost of xp would seem fitting ;)

#358 Pratish85

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 10:45



Also besides volume, STAM USAGE, needs to be taken into account. Please don't try to tell me a player using 100 stams at anytime isn't more dominant. I believe 100 stamming a player should have as much if not more weight as the buff gloat with regard to rating transfer.

+1

More stamina used to gain rating would deter 10 stam traders and farmers.

A bit off topic, but it would be nice if they tweaked gloat and honer so you lose more XP when you have them on :twisted: Buffs to determine how good you are at pvp is just silly, but it would seem its too late to nerf them, so an extra cost of xp would seem fitting ;)


++1

Make PvP rating relae to stam usage in a 1:1 ratio,
THAT IS GIVE 10X MORE RATING FOR A 100 STAM THAN A 10

#359 EJames2100

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 10:52

Another thing.

Whenever it is reset, a lot of people get constantly struck for PvP Rating by more than 1 Person.
Sure we could Bounty/Attack back, but why should we suffer constant attacks ?

Could we have the idea where some people start with 1000 PvP Rating and some with 500 ?
Those who want to be on the ladder and in the running start at 1000, and those who don't start at 500.
Option in Prefs.

Yet again, I don't want Option 3 been implemented without a similar situation against Lower lvls gaining off Higher lvls without Penalty.

#360 Dowster

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 10:54

Anything that stops easy pvp rating gain for people who like to play tag with their friends is a good thing, it makes good sense for more rating to be tied in with more associated loss and risk


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