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Game Update v1.6583


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#441 fs_regnier7

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 01:45

Seeing that it already at my lvl, takes about 300 stamina to make up for a 100 stamina hit=10% XP loss.
That makes me wonder how much it takes to make up for a 10% loss, at the lvl 800+ .
If one PvPer decides to burn all stamina gained on PvP attacks,
that should make any lvl progress rather slow for the lvlers around him.

If PvP through the changes seriously increases at the higher lvls,
the relation between XP loss compared to stamina needed to regain the loss,
needs to be adjusted.



Problem with that, is it would cause the opposite imbalance on the baord, when it comes to deleveling said high level players.

I, and quite a few others, have suggested a penalty on players who are knocked down 5+ levels from their VL, by having them not able to take Xp. That way, you can get some reprieve whilst they spend loads of stam to get back and hit at you.

#442 fs_evfisher

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 01:47

The whole entire issue has been directed at putting purity back in the PvP system which is corrupt and abused as it is. Many suggestions have been made, many changes have been made, and the truth of it is, the PvP point ladder is exploitable and corrupt via many different avenues. If you do away with the PvP point system altogether, then you do not have something which could be exploited, thereby eliminating the corruption. AND, I might say, you level the playing field for all players across the board. Make it a tiered PvP ladder. The lower levels who have a lot of targets, but no stam, will be in one tier. Those middle levels who have more targets and more stam another level, those higher levels who have more stam and fewer targets, can hit their targets more frequently. What is wrong with that? Then, you have a Pure PvP ladder. With PvP ladder players getting their rewards. :) Then, there is no "farming" rating off the BB either. The BB doesn't count toward the PvP ladder, and the BB is back to bounty hunters going for their medals, and their rewards. The BB then becomes the area of retribution that levelers want it to be, if the AL/VL aspect is taken to where it was previously, and every off BB hit gets bountied. :) Then, you have everyone appeased. The more the PvP ladder seekers hit, the more the levelers bounty, the more the BHers have to do. :)


All players gain the same amount of stamina per hour with the exception of hourly gain, epics and structures. Whether you have 20k or 2k max stamina it doesn't change much, you just need to spend it. And although it can be said that most, if not all, high levels have max stamina gain it isn't possible to generalize similarly for lower levels.

And hourly hit is in order to prevent abuse. One hour delay minimum should stay no matter the level range.

I do however agree a tiered system would have some pros, though it would further promote players camping a certain level range without leveling (but at 599 I'm at the top of my range, while 600 I'm at the bottom). I doubt HCS wants to encourage players to not level in any way or form.


Seeing that it already at my lvl, takes about 300 stamina to make up for a 100 stamina hit=10% XP loss.
That makes me wonder how much it takes to make up for a 10% loss, at the lvl 800+ .
If one PvPer decides to burn all stamina gained on PvP attacks,
that should make any lvl progress rather slow for the lvlers around him.

If PvP through the changes seriously increases at the higher lvls,
the relation between XP loss compared to stamina needed to regain the loss,
needs to be adjusted.


Each of my levels takes approximately 20 Million Xp to complete. I can get a level with about 3.5 k stam, 1 hitting and using doubler 1200, and every other high level potion and buff you can think of. So, a 100 stam hit would take about 2 million xp off me, and would take about 350 stam to replace. If, as I say, I am 1 hitting.

#443 Khanate

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 01:54

Seeing that it already at my lvl, takes about 300 stamina to make up for a 100 stamina hit=10% XP loss.
That makes me wonder how much it takes to make up for a 10% loss, at the lvl 800+ .
If one PvPer decides to burn all stamina gained on PvP attacks,
that should make any lvl progress rather slow for the lvlers around him.

If PvP through the changes seriously increases at the higher lvls,
the relation between XP loss compared to stamina needed to regain the loss,
needs to be adjusted.


Exp losses was calculated for a level 200. Hard to make something like this works across a thousand levels.

#444 Pathfinder

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 02:00

Hoof Im a virgin(lol) poster but the dominance medal is not gonna be obtained by hardworkers this is clear to me now. Worked all weekend to end up 43. I thought you weren't giving win keys anymore.
Pvp points still not right. How about some protection for the hard work and donations. Yep guys i donate dont hate.

#445 Bleltch

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 02:29

Has anyone suggested removing pvp point transfer from the bounty board entirely? I mean bounty hunters already have a top rated list. The pvpers need one of their own.

And how about adding separate pvp ladders so the high and low level players dont have to compete with each other?

#446 fs_evfisher

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 02:35

Has anyone suggested removing pvp point transfer from the bounty board entirely? I mean bounty hunters already have a top rated list. The pvpers need one of their own.

And how about adding separate pvp ladders so the high and low level players dont have to compete with each other?



In my post, I suggested getting rid of PvP rate entirely, and basing the ladder on # of hits and stam usage in a tiered program of perhaps 3 tiers, and not letting the bounty clears count in the PvP ladder, since they already have their bounty list. :)

#447 Khanate

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 02:47

Has anyone suggested removing pvp point transfer from the bounty board entirely? I mean bounty hunters already have a top rated list. The pvpers need one of their own.

And how about adding separate pvp ladders so the high and low level players dont have to compete with each other?



In my post, I suggested getting rid of PvP rate entirely, and basing the ladder on # of hits and stam usage in a tiered program of perhaps 3 tiers, and not letting the bounty clears count in the PvP ladder, since they already have their bounty list. :)


I think a major reduction of the effect of the bounty board on rating would fix the problem and provide more benefits to the sytem. Having the board play a minor role would make it more dynamic, fact is most people don't retaliate directly and rating-wise there is no point in hitting back. If someone hits you for rating, you gain almost no rating from him. Without rating on the board it will simply turns into a hoarding game.

And as I said, I don't think HCS will go with a tiered system. It ensures that PvPers won't want to level past the top of a bracket and I don't think they will go with that.

#448 fs_evfisher

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 02:56

Has anyone suggested removing pvp point transfer from the bounty board entirely? I mean bounty hunters already have a top rated list. The pvpers need one of their own.

And how about adding separate pvp ladders so the high and low level players dont have to compete with each other?



In my post, I suggested getting rid of PvP rate entirely, and basing the ladder on # of hits and stam usage in a tiered program of perhaps 3 tiers, and not letting the bounty clears count in the PvP ladder, since they already have their bounty list. :)


I think a major reduction of the effect of the bounty board on rating would fix the problem and provide more benefits to the sytem. Having the board play a minor role would make it more dynamic, fact is most people don't retaliate directly and rating-wise there is no point in hitting back. If someone hits you for rating, you gain almost no rating from him. Without rating on the board it will simply turns into a hoarding game.

And as I said, I don't think HCS will go with a tiered system. It ensures that PvPers won't want to level past the top of a bracket and I don't think they will go with that.


From everything that I have read, the major problem with the purity of the PvP ladder is the exploitation and abuse by players of the ability to get rating off other players by either buying the hits, or preying on lower levels on the BB. That will continue to happen as long as there is a rating system. If you take away the rating system and base the ladder on # of hits and stam used, then there can't be the exploitation and abuse, as it will be based on clean numbers. Unless you can come up with an abuse or exploitation scenario, I see no problem with it. :)

As for players not leveling, that already happens in the PvP world. I have seen more and more players actively hitting others and requesting to be placed on the BB and then 100 stammed to delevel them, so they can be in comfortable convenient PvP "zones" so to speak.

#449 Bleltch

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 03:08

Has anyone suggested removing pvp point transfer from the bounty board entirely? I mean bounty hunters already have a top rated list. The pvpers need one of their own.

And how about adding separate pvp ladders so the high and low level players dont have to compete with each other?



In my post, I suggested getting rid of PvP rate entirely, and basing the ladder on # of hits and stam usage in a tiered program of perhaps 3 tiers, and not letting the bounty clears count in the PvP ladder, since they already have their bounty list. :)

I know. :P These are the 2 main things i'm pushing for. I think more tiers would be better though, maybe 1 for every 100 levels or so. :)

#450 fs_evfisher

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 03:11

Has anyone suggested removing pvp point transfer from the bounty board entirely? I mean bounty hunters already have a top rated list. The pvpers need one of their own.

And how about adding separate pvp ladders so the high and low level players dont have to compete with each other?



In my post, I suggested getting rid of PvP rate entirely, and basing the ladder on # of hits and stam usage in a tiered program of perhaps 3 tiers, and not letting the bounty clears count in the PvP ladder, since they already have their bounty list. :)

I know. :P These are the 2 main things i'm pushing for. I think more tiers would be better though, maybe 1 for every 100 levels or so. :)


I will leave that for the mathematicians to figure out. My premise is based on the purity issue, and eliminate the abuse and exploitation which seems to be causing such an uproar within the community. :)

#451 Trailman

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 03:12


Seeing that it already at my lvl, takes about 300 stamina to make up for a 100 stamina hit=10% XP loss.
That makes me wonder how much it takes to make up for a 10% loss, at the lvl 800+ .
If one PvPer decides to burn all stamina gained on PvP attacks,
that should make any lvl progress rather slow for the lvlers around him.

If PvP through the changes seriously increases at the higher lvls,
the relation between XP loss compared to stamina needed to regain the loss,
needs to be adjusted.


Exp losses was calculated for a level 200. Hard to make something like this works across a thousand levels.


Ok been a while and I think I need to poke my nose in again. XP loss is a formula that is the same for level 10 as EOC. The fact that it now takes us a great deal more to make a level up here (for me a little more then 6mil) is why the difference. There have been several good points brought up about the BB and giving it back to the hunters and again making it a place of retribution for levelers.

2 points that I am 100% behind are

#1 All Attacks off board we should be able to place a bounty on. Attacks off board are limited to 1 an hour so we should be able to place a bounty every hour for each attack.

#2 Put being able to attack a player off board back to the actual level so that if a leveler does get a group of friends together and takes 5 from someone then the PvP'er must again level to attack.

I must disagree with adjusting the amount of xp taken as that will hamper the retribution on the board. I want to know that when we take 5 from someone it will take them time to regain those levels. Giving levelers a break and a chance to get out of reach from the PvP'er.

I do not believe PvP rating should have anything to do with the BB so I agree with Ev's post on that. All it does is encourage farmers to play and that is not really good for the ladder. PvP should only be awarded for off board attacks.

Here is something I have seen brought up in general but not in depth.

PvP rating gain should be reduced by 5% for each point your rating is higher then your targets rounded down.

PvP rating gain should also be upped by 5% for each level you as the attacker are under the targets level rounded up. Both of these would have to have a cap of say 25% but both seem workable. This is off board no PvP rating should be transferred from bounties.

This will tend to pit PvP'ers against PvP'ers as they will have the rating and most levelers won't.

Those here that know me know I am a leveler and only PvP in defense of my guild members or friends that ask for help. I am also a merchant and anything that can be made with the PvP tokens will eventually end up in the ah and I will see it there and buy it if I want it.

This is not all the good ideas that have been brought up and I really do hope HCS reads and listens to what has been said here. There are many good suggestions and it would be a shame if they can not be worked into something that all can live with.

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#452 fs_evfisher

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 03:13

The whole entire issue has been directed at putting purity back in the PvP system which is corrupt and abused as it is. Many suggestions have been made, many changes have been made, and the truth of it is, the PvP point ladder is exploitable and corrupt via many different avenues. If you do away with the PvP point system altogether, then you do not have something which could be exploited, thereby eliminating the corruption. AND, I might say, you level the playing field for all players across the board. Make it a tiered PvP ladder. The lower levels who have a lot of targets, but no stam, will be in one tier. Those middle levels who have more targets and more stam another level, those higher levels who have more stam and fewer targets, can hit their targets more frequently. What is wrong with that? Then, you have a Pure PvP ladder. With PvP ladder players getting their rewards. :) Then, there is no "farming" rating off the BB either. The BB doesn't count toward the PvP ladder, and the BB is back to bounty hunters going for their medals, and their rewards. The BB then becomes the area of retribution that levelers want it to be, if the AL/VL aspect is taken to where it was previously, and every off BB hit gets bountied. :) Then, you have everyone appeased. The more the PvP ladder seekers hit, the more the levelers bounty, the more the BHers have to do. :)


This post Bleltch. :)

#453 Kildek

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 03:17

From everything that I have read, the major problem with the purity of the PvP ladder is the exploitation and abuse by players of the ability to get rating off other players by either buying the hits, or preying on lower levels on the BB. That will continue to happen as long as there is a rating system. If you take away the rating system and base the ladder on # of hits and stam used, then there can't be the exploitation and abuse, as it will be based on clean numbers. Unless you can come up with an abuse or exploitation scenario, I see no problem with it. :)


For those that go for PvP rating,
the drop in PvP rating of the target,
and hence the lack of PvP raiting to be gained,
creates an incentive to pick a new target.
If only 100 stamina hits are counted, there would be no reason to switch.
Thus the weak targets would get attacked even more.

#454 fs_evfisher

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 03:21


From everything that I have read, the major problem with the purity of the PvP ladder is the exploitation and abuse by players of the ability to get rating off other players by either buying the hits, or preying on lower levels on the BB. That will continue to happen as long as there is a rating system. If you take away the rating system and base the ladder on # of hits and stam used, then there can't be the exploitation and abuse, as it will be based on clean numbers. Unless you can come up with an abuse or exploitation scenario, I see no problem with it. :)


For those that go for PvP rating,
the drop in PvP rating of the target,
and hence the lack of PvP raiting to be gained,
creates an incentive to pick a new target.
If only 100 stamina hits are counted, there would be no reason to switch.
Thus the weak targets would get attacked even more.


That is why I am saying get rid of the rating system all together, and put in a tiered system, separated from the BB.

#455 Kildek

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 03:24


From everything that I have read, the major problem with the purity of the PvP ladder is the exploitation and abuse by players of the ability to get rating off other players by either buying the hits, or preying on lower levels on the BB. That will continue to happen as long as there is a rating system. If you take away the rating system and base the ladder on # of hits and stam used, then there can't be the exploitation and abuse, as it will be based on clean numbers. Unless you can come up with an abuse or exploitation scenario, I see no problem with it. :)


For those that go for PvP rating,
the drop in PvP rating of the target,
and hence the lack of PvP raiting to be gained,
creates an incentive to pick a new target.
If only 100 stamina hits are counted, there would be no reason to switch.
Thus the weak targets would get attacked even more.


That is why I am saying get rid of the rating system all together, and put in a tiered system, separated from the BB.


Then we can't have a PvP ladder at all.
The PvP ladder would fail to show, who goes for the weak targets,
and who is actually up for a challenge.

#456 fs_evfisher

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 03:29

Then we can't have a PvP ladder at all.
The PvP ladder would fail to show, who goes for the weak targets,
and who is actually up for a challenge.


That is not true Kildek. If you make it tiered with something like Bleltch suggested, every 100 levels or 200 levels, or however many levels, then for example, level 200-299 would be hitting level 200-299 players with what they have, not hitting level 99 players. As I stated in my post, make it so the lower level players who don't have the stam but have a lot of targets can have every one of their hits count, and make it so the middle level players who have more stam and more targets hit those levels and can't prey on the lower level players, and the same with the high level players, playing with each other.

If you really want a challenge Kildek, go hit some of those guys on the PvP ladder right now. They are higher level than you, and they have more PvP rating than you. There would be your challenge. :)

#457 Trailman

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 03:31

And get it off the bounty board that is where the farmers are.

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#458 Trailman

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 03:48

Guess we are both good at killing a topic in the Forum Ev 8)

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#459 fs_evfisher

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 03:51

Guess we are both good at killing a topic in the Forum Ev 8)


Yeah, this is the second time today for me. LOL :)

#460 kingtyrin

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 03:56

Sometimes less is more. Think of the poor cows who will read all the going around in circles done in this thread. . . . . . . . . (Not saying Im not guilty)


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