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Game Update v1.6583


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#501 Booger

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 23:46

I have seen multiple instances where people both do not tell the full and complete story - which includes actions they are either not proud of or are aware mitigates what happened to them - and where they blame a single incident of PvP for doing something they either were already considering anyway, or as justification for doing XYZ.


Like I said earlier, the guy that quit probably needs to take it less seriously and toughen up. He's a nice enough guy and has donated a fair bit to this game, so I'm not happy to see things end the way they did. Here's the eyewitness account of what happened. Sure it's all within the rules of the game, but it shows how certain guilds can get away with it because they know other people don't want to lose 5 levels:

xxx: YY apparently got hit by MMM like 5x in 1 day i think....he lost 1.3 mill gold in either 1 attack or over all. He went after their relic...and so MMM hit him again. he hit MMM back and that chicken **** put him on bb. (and levels were taken)

xxx then goes on to say: MMM also hit me 2x...i hit him back 1x and he puts me on BB...lost 5 levels to those ******** cowards!

yyy: I got hit by MMM as well, I just kept putting him on the board though, I know attacking back would mean losing 5

qqq: I learned my lesson from the xxx guild..your hands are tied w/ PvP dedicated guilds

This is, in the end, a game. No one can bully you over a game that you voluntarily log into. However, the way you're posting right now, and how your bio reads, is nothing but antagonistic. The "unofficial PVP event" you suggested - can you honestly say you weren't attempting to provoke a response?


True, nobody can make you login, but people who want to enjoy other aspects of the game shouldn't be put in that position.

People can think what they want of my bio. I've seen so many hypocritical bios that I felt like saying something about them.

I was looking into the viability of that unofficial PVP event until I found out that most of the prominent PVP guilds are allied.. makes it hard to turn the tables on the in-game bullies, I'm sure they wouldn't like the idea of 'levellers' having superior numbers over them in pvp for a change. Although a lot of people are interested in the idea of hitting one guild..

#502 fs_gravely

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 00:22

So did anything get mentioned about YYY attempting to hire mercs?

I guess that part got left out....

Look, some of what happened probably shouldn't have. I'm not equipped to judge, because I was neither involved nor in a position to do anything about it, but just from my own information and being online at the time (and knowing who the players are) I know that's not the full story.

See what I mean?

As for your bio, just because someone else is hypocritical, it doesn't follow that it's okay for yours to be aggressive and angsty and then not expect to get a response. Seriously, it's like jumping in the shower and complaining you got wet. :lol:

#503 Booger

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 01:15

So did anything get mentioned about YYY attempting to hire mercs?

I guess that part got left out....

Look, some of what happened probably shouldn't have. I'm not equipped to judge, because I was neither involved nor in a position to do anything about it, but just from my own information and being online at the time (and knowing who the players are) I know that's not the full story.

See what I mean?

As for your bio, just because someone else is hypocritical, it doesn't follow that it's okay for yours to be aggressive and angsty and then not expect to get a response. Seriously, it's like jumping in the shower and complaining you got wet. :lol:


I saw a FSbox post of YYY offering a reward for a delevel, I believe that may have been after he had been delevelled. I couldn't see anyone taking him up on the offer, but I guess it was the only option left that he could think of. It keeps coming back to the fact that with the current system, certain guilds can bully people in-game and there's nothing people like YYY can do about it, so he was frustrated and annoyed.

I got a PM from a so-called diplomat asking if I was after a response to my bio. The answer remains the same - I don't care either way. I'm simply expressing my opinion like they are :P

#504 avvakum

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 07:07

I got a PM from a so-called diplomat asking if I was after a response to my bio. The answer remains the same - I don't care either way. I'm simply expressing my opinion like they are :P


It's not an opinion, it's provoking other players and escalating conflict. As for idea, well, if you don't have enough people interested then it's not popular, pay the price for your selfish game plan.

#505 Booger

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 07:49


I got a PM from a so-called diplomat asking if I was after a response to my bio. The answer remains the same - I don't care either way. I'm simply expressing my opinion like they are :P


It's not an opinion, it's provoking other players and escalating conflict. As for idea, well, if you don't have enough people interested then it's not popular, pay the price for your selfish game plan.


LOL, what's selfish about it? I'm more annoyed at what these people have done to others, I don't take the game as seriously as some people.
Can these PVPers not take as good as they give if the numbers are reversed? I thought they enjoy PVP? Being chums with the other PVP guilds isn't exactly a recipe for PVP mayhem..

I've pretty much given up on the idea anyway - it might be some fun, but would be too much hassle to organise.

#506 avvakum

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 08:42


I got a PM from a so-called diplomat asking if I was after a response to my bio. The answer remains the same - I don't care either way. I'm simply expressing my opinion like they are :P


It's not an opinion, it's provoking other players and escalating conflict. As for idea, well, if you don't have enough people interested then it's not popular, pay the price for your selfish game plan.


LOL, what's selfish about it? Can these people not take as good as they give if the numbers are reversed? I thought they enjoy PVP?
I've pretty much given up on the idea anyway - it might be some fun, but would be too much hassle to organise.


How many players have you helped with delevelings for revenge? You've invested your stamina in top monthly medal, good for you, some other players spent their stamina and lost their levels helping other players with delevelings, so they have friends to help them, and you have what you have for your levels, unfortunately for you, your selfish game plan isn't that rewarding, not so many players ready to spend their stamina and lose their levels to help you, right?

#507 RebornJedi

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 08:46

not everyone is up for playing dirty with PvP oriented guilds..like starting a war they don't want to waste their time with..mercs is a way to get revenge for the attacks and hopefully leave it at that, yet it is looked down upon by 'hardcore' pvpers *shrugs*

guess the best way is to ignore attacks and move on..kinda lame lol

 


#508 Booger

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 09:41

How many players have you helped with delevelings for revenge? You've invested your stamina in top monthly medal, good for you, some other players spent their stamina and lost their levels helping other players with delevelings, so they have friends to help them, and you have what you have for your levels, unfortunately for you, your selfish game plan isn't that rewarding, not so many players ready to spend their stamina and lose their levels to help you, right?


I don't play FS to make friends, although I do make some along the way, certainly not through dirty PVP practises. Each to their own. The 'selfish' plan isn't for my benefit at all, it was an idea of an event that could be fun, especially for the people who have been picked on by certain guilds - and this doesn't include me at all. What's to say I wouldn't lose many levels myself?
You're making far too many negative assumptions. The saddest thing is that the so called PVPers get their back up at any mention of them not having their god given right of a numerical advantage.

Anyway, if you want to discuss it further I suggest you PM me as we're getting off topic.
The point I'm trying to make is that with the current rules we have, there's nothing a lot of people can do about people from certain guilds baiting them to hit back and then taking levels from them.. other than not hit back, but where's the fun in that? And some people don't realise they are going to lose levels for something petty until it happens.

#509 avvakum

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 11:01

not everyone is up for playing dirty with PvP oriented guilds..like starting a war they don't want to waste their time with..mercs is a way to get revenge for the attacks and hopefully leave it at that, yet it is looked down upon by 'hardcore' pvpers *shrugs*

guess the best way is to ignore attacks and move on..kinda lame lol


Dr. Watson: "I always felt sorry for Count Monte Cristo. What a waste of talent and money!" :P

Alternatively:

In 390 B.C., a Celtic army under a chieftain named Brennus defeated the Roman army in the battle of Allia; the ensuing occupation of Rome lasted seven months, until the Roman Senate bought off the Celts. The legacy of this humiliation was an enduring Roman hatred for the Celts that ultimately resulted in Roman destruction of Celtic civilization wherever the Romans found it. The Roman-Celtic wars of the 200 years following the battle of Allia determined the course of the Roman Empire. While the ""Celtic terror"" continued to infect northern Italy and menace Rome, the Romans gradually learned to counter the Celtic tactic of massed charges--the Romans lost many battles but in the fateful battle of Telamon (225 B.C.) destroyed a large Celtic army that threatened the peninsula. This victory presaged final Roman triumph... ... Roman became unstoppable from then, they went further to conquer everything on their way... just one huge bloody battle gave confidence to their forces... go for it, it's hard to steal gold with Pick Axes! :shock:

#510 Bleltch

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 11:15

Remember that pvp is part of the game, and being disrespectful to players based on how they play the game is uncalled for. Getting hit for gold and going on a big rant and name calling spree over it isn't the way to go. Hit back, or bounty, but not both. Once you open your trap and start insulting players things change, the respect you expect to get goes right out the window at that point.

#511 BalianRW

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 15:03

Remember that pvp is part of the game, and being disrespectful to players based on how they play the game is uncalled for. Getting hit for gold and going on a big rant and name calling spree over it isn't the way to go. Hit back, or bounty, but not both. Once you open your trap and start insulting players things change, the respect you expect to get goes right out the window at that point.


Just out of curiosity, why not both. Both are valid, legal aspects of the game just like PvP itself. Obviously if you do both, you should full well expect to get hit again and put on the bounty board yourself. Could kinda turn into a vicious cycle, but still it is just a game.

#512 Khanate

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 15:36

Could kinda turn into a viscous cycle, but still it is just a game.


Viscosity is always what I worry most when PvPing. :lol: :lol:

#513 BalianRW

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 15:43

:shock:
Oops, fixed.

#514 BadPenny

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 15:44

Just out of curiosity, why not both. Both are valid, legal aspects of the game just like PvP itself. Obviously if you do both, you should full well expect to get hit again and put on the bounty board yourself. Could kinda turn into a viscous cycle, but still it is just a game.


But so many take this game so seriously, even compare it to real life. And disrespectful behavior is just unconscionable imo... hit me back or bounty me, idc either way, but trash talk in my logs gets my hackles up, and that is not a good thing. Doing both seems like overkill to me, but if somebody I hit wants to play that way, I'm ready for the challenge.

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#515 sweetlou

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 16:15

Remember that pvp is part of the game, and being disrespectful to players based on how they play the game is uncalled for. Getting hit for gold and going on a big rant and name calling spree over it isn't the way to go. Hit back, or bounty, but not both. Once you open your trap and start insulting players things change, the respect you expect to get goes right out the window at that point.

Just out of curiosity, why not both. Both are valid, legal aspects of the game just like PvP itself. Obviously if you do both, you should full well expect to get hit again and put on the bounty board yourself. Could kinda turn into a viscous cycle, but still it is just a game.

It's called double dipping. There are many tactics in PvP. There is also a very human aspect to the way the PvP game is played. It's not about killing some defenseless mob for xp that won't hit back. There is an unwritten 'code' that most players follow that is based on respect. Respect is a word that is thrown around a lot in life, but not until someone has earned it and/or shown it do they really understand it. The absolute WORST thing a player can do is send a nasty complaint because they were attacked. Another is to put in their bio other hate-filled, offensive words and phrases. This is a game. Too many lose touch with that fact. Even if you despise PvP xp loss is not the end of the game. There has been a false sense of importance applied to xp.

Remember if a player attacks back then the original attacker has a bounty on them. Any attack should expect one of three things 1) An attack back 2) To be bountied(possibly/probably losing levels) 3) Nothing. What was the need for double retribution? By showing some respect, you also earn some. Hit back OR bounty, but not both is a PvP mantra so to speak. There are some steadfast unwritten rules, while others aren't so set in stone. Technically anything in the game's mechanics and within the dev's rules are fair game but so is the retribution to an action.

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#516 BalianRW

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 16:24

Remember that pvp is part of the game, and being disrespectful to players based on how they play the game is uncalled for. Getting hit for gold and going on a big rant and name calling spree over it isn't the way to go. Hit back, or bounty, but not both. Once you open your trap and start insulting players things change, the respect you expect to get goes right out the window at that point.

Just out of curiosity, why not both. Both are valid, legal aspects of the game just like PvP itself. Obviously if you do both, you should full well expect to get hit again and put on the bounty board yourself. Could kinda turn into a viscous cycle, but still it is just a game.

It's called double dipping. There are many tactics in PvP. There is also a very human aspect to the way the PvP game is played. It's not about killing some defenseless mob for xp that won't hit back. There is an unwritten 'code' that most players follow that is based on respect. Respect is a word that is thrown around a lot in life, but not until someone has earned it and/or shown it do they really understand it. The absolute WORST thing a player can do is send a nasty complaint because they were attacked. Another is to put in their bio other hate-filled, offensive words and phrases. This is a game. Too many lose touch with that fact. Even if you despise PvP xp loss is not the end of the game. There has been a false sense of importance applied to xp.

Remember if a player attacks back then the original attacker has a bounty on them. Any attack should expect one of three things 1) An attack back 2) To be bountied(possibly/probably losing levels) 3) Nothing. What was the need for double retribution? By showing some respect, you also earn some. Hit back OR bounty, but not both is a PvP mantra so to speak. There are some steadfast unwritten rules, while others aren't so set in stone. Technically anything in the game's mechanics and within the dev's rules are fair game but so is the retribution to an action.


In the same vein, wouldn't it also be considered double dipping if you hit someone that put you on the bounty board while you were still on the bounty board (i.e. can hit without fear of being bountied again). That is a very common practice amongst PvPers.

#517 Maehdros

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 16:50

While on the BB theres still the possiblity to lose 5, so most players take as many "free" swings as they can. A 100 stam takes 10% of a level...If I hit them 4 or 5 times.. thats half a level... There's the possibility of retribution ( of 5 levels) laying on the board, Just because most times it doesnt happen doesnt mean it CANT ;) All ones guild has to do is defend itself, and its members. Even allies defending one another.

#518 fs_alienize

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 17:27

The solution to that is fairly simple, just make all non-bounty board attacks bountiable, problem solved.

#519 sweetlou

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 17:45

In the same vein, wouldn't it also be considered double dipping if you hit someone that put you on the bounty board while you were still on the bounty board (i.e. can hit without fear of being bountied again). That is a very common practice amongst PvPers.

No, it explains why there is strategy involved. Double dipping is a sign of not knowing how PvP works. They think they are doubling retribution but they are not. Free smacks, as you explained, are used because the posted player has managed to stay on the BB. The timing of posting the attacker was simply bad and the attacker is letting the attacked know it. If the attacker is cleared from the BB and they attack again they will be bountyable again. The poster setting the reward too low is one reason the attacker has stayed up for an hour. There is no instant and automatic punishment. 1 hour between attacks is meant to help protect the attacked player. If a player is attacked while offline there is typically a reason, be it gold, xp or rating. Repercussions, and to what degree, are the responsibility of the attacked and his/her guild and/or allies. I'd be surprised frankly if guilds didn't have rules regarding how attacks are dealt with. Plenty of players seem to think it is easy to retaliate with the ultimate punishment, losing 5 levels. It is not always easy. Again strategy in playing the game.

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#520 fs_evfisher

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 18:06

In the same vein, wouldn't it also be considered double dipping if you hit someone that put you on the bounty board while you were still on the bounty board (i.e. can hit without fear of being bountied again). That is a very common practice amongst PvPers.

No, it explains why there is strategy involved. Double dipping is a sign of not knowing how PvP works. They think they are doubling retribution but they are not. Free smacks, as you explained, are used because the posted player has managed to stay on the BB. The timing of posting the attacker was simply bad and the attacker is letting the attacked know it. If the attacker is cleared from the BB and they attack again they will be bountyable again. The poster setting the reward too low is one reason the attacker has stayed up for an hour. There is no instant and automatic punishment. 1 hour between attacks is meant to help protect the attacked player. If a player is attacked while offline there is typically a reason, be it gold, xp or rating. Repercussions, and to what degree, are the responsibility of the attacked and his/her guild and/or allies. I'd be surprised frankly if guilds didn't have rules regarding how attacks are dealt with. Plenty of players seem to think it is easy to retaliate with the ultimate punishment, losing 5 levels. It is not always easy. Again strategy in playing the game.


And sometimes, it is because "they want to be deleveled they say", but they don't give it enough time for their bounty to be cleared before they strike again, making it impossible to rebounty them. So I get very suspicious of this type of hitting.


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