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Game Update v1.6583


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#161 abhorrence

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Posted 14 August 2010 - 03:50

So follow the chain: to have a PvP Ladder worth the name
1. we want to deter the farming of levelers for rating

Why? You receive about 10 pvp for hitting someone with the base 1000 pvp reset. Which also reduces the pvp rating of the person attacked making them less and less of a target.

2. so you need some risk in hitting levelers, and they won't hit back, so you need levelers to use the BB
3. but levelers won't even waste money on the BB unless
a. they care about being attacked and
b. the BB will deter at least some attacks.
4. to satisfy 3,
a. PvP attacks must take XP
b. being on the bounty board must hurt the PvPer that the leveler puts there

Right now, I think 4b is lacking.


Over the last 2 years levelers have argued for and gotten, 3 TIMES, a reduction in exp lose on and off the bounty board. I argued and argued and argued for levelers, and warned and warned and warned that if you keep reducing the amount of exp that can be taken then it will reduce the punishment.

Short sighted levelers continued to argue against me. Their thinking was the initial attack they were hit with was taking too much exp.

Now years later after the exp lose has been nerfed 1-2-3 times you would like to come along and re-nerf it to only effect PvPers...


That's where the idea of a "hardcore opt-in" where opted-in -v- opted-in attacks were non-bountiable came from. All other attacks (in-v-out, out-v-in, out-v-out) would still be bountiable. And expand the level range for hardcore so people have as many targets as their stamina will let them 100-stam, but leave the range alone for any conflicts involving opt-outs to cut harrasment. But ONLY opt-ins could be on the PvP ladder, in this system.


You opt into PvP every time you log in.

#162 Woot

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Posted 14 August 2010 - 03:55

You should only get rating from real pvp, In my opinion, Bounty hunting is too safe to award rating. I feel that it's messing up the ladder - Some people are safely buying their way on top - I saw someone ranked in the top 10 last night without losing a single level, That's clearly farming - He got up there with absolutely no risks. Some people are suffering massive level loss just to get in the top 50.

The stamina limitation was about the only update which was fair and now it's gone.

#163 C4RPY

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Posted 14 August 2010 - 04:08


To be honest I care not about PvP rating, just want everyone to have a fair shot at getting there names on the weekly PvP ladder now for the rewards that are being offered.

I don't claim to be a massive PvP'er or Bounty Hunter but I do like to take part in all aspects of the game without being penalised for being a high level player.


1) if you didn't care you wouldn't buy pvp rating like I know you have


Before you go throwing accusations around get some substance behind you. I have not 'bought' PvP rating.

Besides, this is not about Me and you having an issue with Me for whatever childish reason that may be lady.

I am merely putting my opinions forward.

Just because I am not a sole PvP'er/Bounty Hunter because I Level, Titan hunt, Se hunt, play the Arena etc doesn't mean that my thoughts and opinions are less valuable than yours. Which you seem to think and come across that that is the case.

This game caters for all kinds of different play and players and I happen to be one of those players that likes to take part in all aspects of the game. It's very rare that I have my say on the forums but seens that this whole PvP ladder updates has come about due to moaning from you 'so called hardcore PvP'ers' and then when changes are made according to suggestions made previously then they don't suite you for whatever reason you bring up more whining to get things changed further again and again until it suits your style of play.

#164 fs_jinxxx

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Posted 14 August 2010 - 04:12

You should only get rating from real pvp, In my opinion, Bounty hunting is too safe to award rating. I feel that it's messing up the ladder - Some people are safely buying their way on top - I saw someone ranked in the top 10 last night without losing a single level, That's clearly farming - He got up there with absolutely no risks. Some people are suffering massive level loss just to get in the top 50.

The stamina limitation was about the only update which was fair and now it's gone.


I personally XP locked after my second BB visit. I'm in this to get the lay of the land, not end up having to redo half the game. I'm not sure if thats bad juju in the PvP community (if it is, you all have my apologies) but its quite feasible that other people would know they're getting themselves into a feeding frenzy and did the same thing.

In any case, I'd like anyone who has been fortunate to be bounty'd to take a peek at this:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=96217

It is related to the PvP updates, was suggested and supported in the previous thread, but somehow got lost in translation.

#165 fs_evfisher

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Posted 14 August 2010 - 04:17

This game caters for all kinds of different play and players and I happen to be one of those players that likes to take part in all aspects of the game. It's very rare that I have my say on the forums but seens that this whole PvP ladder updates has come about due to moaning from you 'so called hardcore PvP'ers' and then when changes are made according to suggestions made previously then they don't suite you for whatever reason you bring up more whining to get things changed further again and again until it suits your style of play.


My point exactly. :)

#166 abhorrence

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Posted 14 August 2010 - 04:24

Before you go throwing accusations around get some substance behind you. I have not 'bought' PvP rating.

You are denying you bought 1 hit bounties to raise your PvP rating and then admitted it to Stang?

#167 fs_gravely

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Posted 14 August 2010 - 04:24

1. If anything, it should be an FSP cost to opt out, not a cost to opt in. It likely shouldn't be either.

2. That would tend to make players wish to opt out without even thinking about it, unless they care about the ladder. The game has always been PvP engaged, so it should cost something to be able to opt out.

3. You still haven't made the board a detriment, just increased the interest of hitting other opt ins. It doesn't really matter to me either way, but you say you want it to be a deterrent.

Finally, the board should always be a part of the dominance equation, because no where else can a player be forced to compete with others of similar skill but dissimilar level.

#168 C4RPY

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Posted 14 August 2010 - 04:27



This game caters for all kinds of different play and players and I happen to be one of those players that likes to take part in all aspects of the game. It's very rare that I have my say on the forums but seens that this whole PvP ladder updates has come about due to moaning from you 'so called hardcore PvP'ers' and then when changes are made according to suggestions made previously then they don't suite you for whatever reason you bring up more whining to get things changed further again and again until it suits your style of play.


My point exactly. :)


:wink:


Before you go throwing accusations around get some substance behind you. I have not 'bought' PvP rating.

You are denying you bought 1 hit bounties to raise your PvP rating and then admitted it to Stang?


Think you'll find you are wrong... and like I said this is not the place to be discussing your issues with me.

I have not once bought 1 hit bounties. Happy to take that up with Stang. I think you'll find you mis heard or understood something Stang may have said.

#169 abhorrence

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Posted 14 August 2010 - 04:31

4. to satisfy 3,
a. PvP attacks must take XP
b. being on the bounty board must hurt the PvPer that the leveler puts there

Right now, I think 4b is lacking.


I have read your full post, again I point out that it was levelers that pushed for and received deceases in the amount of exp taken in a PvP attack.

I site the underlined part of your post so you may better understand exactly the point which I make. There was a way to more severely punish people for attacking you. This punishment was diminished at the hands of people arguing for less and less exp to be taken.

Let me also reiterate that there is already and opt in for PvP. You opt into PvP when you log on.

#170 fs_jinxxx

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Posted 14 August 2010 - 04:38


4. to satisfy 3,
a. PvP attacks must take XP
b. being on the bounty board must hurt the PvPer that the leveler puts there

Right now, I think 4b is lacking.


I have read your full post, again I point out that it was levelers that pushed for and received deceases in the amount of exp taken in a PvP attack.

I site the underlined part of your post so you may better understand exactly the point which I make. There was a way to more severely punish people for attacking you. This punishment was diminished at the hands of people arguing for less and less exp to be taken.

Let me also reiterate that there is already and opt in for PvP. You opt into PvP when you log on.


Maybe the underlining isn't the problem, it just might be the avvy. I know thats where I got lost :wink:

#171 abhorrence

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Posted 14 August 2010 - 04:59


To be honest I care not about PvP rating, just want everyone to have a fair shot at getting there names on the weekly PvP ladder now for the rewards that are being offered.

I don't claim to be a massive PvP'er or Bounty Hunter but I do like to take part in all aspects of the game without being penalised for being a high level player.


1) if you didn't care you wouldn't buy pvp rating like I know you have


Before you go throwing accusations around get some substance behind you. I have not 'bought' PvP rating.


I don't throw around accusations, I was online and watched it happen.

Besides, this is not about Me and you having an issue with Me for whatever childish reason that may be lady.


I also am not antagonizing you by using terms like "childish" and "lady"

I am merely putting my opinions forward.

Just because I am not a sole PvP'er/Bounty Hunter because I Level, Titan hunt, Se hunt, play the Arena etc doesn't mean that my thoughts and opinions are less valuable than yours. Which you seem to think and come across that that is the case.


I also never discounted your opinions as you state above. If you could show me where I said your opinion was childish or of lesser value then mine I would like to see it.

What I did do is refute your statement:

To be honest I care not about PvP rating, just want everyone to have a fair shot at getting there names on the weekly PvP ladder now for the rewards that are being offered.


It's pretty obvious that you worked to get your rating and your ranking.

Previous PvP Ladder

Ranking Player PvP Rating
1st shindrak 1,808
2nd C4RPY 1,732

Also that you have worked to get rating in the past since you have a Silver Dominance medal.

#172 abhorrence

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Posted 14 August 2010 - 05:09

But opt-in -v- opt-in attacks are not bountiable.


I feel all attacks should have the possibility of a bounty irregardless of anything else.

#173 C4RPY

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Posted 14 August 2010 - 05:10

Also that you have worked to get rating in the past since you have a Silver Dominance medal.


Yes worked, not bought one hit bounties.

I admit I did do a little point farming way back when I originally got bronze dominance but even then 90% of my PvP rating came from doing legit bounties. It was only the final few points that were farmed to push over to number 1 spot. I am not saying this is right or the way it should be done but the system in place at the time allowed us to do this, i wasn't breaking any rules or terms of the game.

Changes to the PvP system in the first place were suggested to try and stop such farming and isn't that what we are still trying to resolve aswell as making PvP more of a level playing field for all?

#174 C4RPY

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Posted 14 August 2010 - 05:13


Besides, this is not about Me and you having an issue with Me for whatever childish reason that may be lady.


I also am not antagonizing you by using terms like "childish" and "lady"


I apologise, just always seem to get flamed or discredited whenever I try and put an opinion forward on the forum and it just seems to be from the same group of players.

maybe I read too much into your replies.. again, I apologise if this was the case :)

#175 fs_gravely

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Posted 14 August 2010 - 05:15

I admit I did do a little point farming way back when I originally got bronze dominance but even then 90% of my PvP rating came from doing legit bounties. It was only the final few points that were farmed to push over to number 1 spot. I am not saying this is right or the way it should be done but the system in place at the time allowed us to do this, i wasn't breaking any rules or terms of the game.


Then you do care about rating.

My problem is that it seems like rating is the letter of "who's the best" yet we can all see by who has the most bounty clears, who steals the most gold in the gold sink thread, and various other exploits people are aware of, that the spirit of pvp is not reflected in that ladder. This is what has to change.

#176 C4RPY

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Posted 14 August 2010 - 05:28

I admit I did do a little point farming way back when I originally got bronze dominance but even then 90% of my PvP rating came from doing legit bounties. It was only the final few points that were farmed to push over to number 1 spot. I am not saying this is right or the way it should be done but the system in place at the time allowed us to do this, i wasn't breaking any rules or terms of the game.


Then you do care about rating.


No I don't. I gained my bronze dominance medal well over 12 months ago, back then, yes, I did care for my rating as I wanted to get the medal. but now, no.


My problem is that it seems like rating is the letter of "who's the best" yet we can all see by who has the most bounty clears, who steals the most gold in the gold sink thread, and various other exploits people are aware of, that the spirit of pvp is not reflected in that ladder. This is what has to change.


I agree, it does seem and come across that some of those player that have that higher PvP rating thinks that makes them better at PvP than someone with less rating. This isn't the case as we know and you clearly said above.

At the end of the day, it shouldn't matter to you, me or any other regular PvP'er what these players think about there high PvP rating meaning they are better than someone with less as those regular PvP'ers know that 'the spirit of PvP' is not reflected by a High PvP rating.

#177 abhorrence

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Posted 14 August 2010 - 05:32

At the end of the day, it shouldn't matter to you, me or any other regular PvP'er what these players think about there high PvP rating meaning they are better than someone with less as those regular PvP'ers know that 'the spirit of PvP' is not reflected by a High PvP rating.


I would agree completely .. right up until they added a reward for the rating. Not having a volume of PvP factor to the rating means that someone can gain a high rating over a series of easy events then hide with that rating until the reward comes in.

Could you tell me how many people will directly pvp you for your rating at your level C4rpy?

#178 C4RPY

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Posted 14 August 2010 - 05:40


At the end of the day, it shouldn't matter to you, me or any other regular PvP'er what these players think about there high PvP rating meaning they are better than someone with less as those regular PvP'ers know that 'the spirit of PvP' is not reflected by a High PvP rating.


I would agree completely .. right up until they added a reward for the rating. Not having a volume of PvP factor to the rating means that someone can gain a high rating over a series of easy events then hide with that rating until the reward comes in.

Could you tell me how many people will directly pvp you for your rating at your level C4rpy?


I don't know exactly as the 'Get PvP Target' option in 'find player' only brings up the first 25 results... and I have 25 results shown.. however, from looking down that list I notice there are a few targets not there that I know are in my range...

Oh hang on.. let me check the top 250 top rated - D'oh! That'll show me... in fact, you could have checked it yourself :P 8)

EDIT: I currently have 47 targets in my range for PvP, +/- 10 levels...

#179 abhorrence

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Posted 14 August 2010 - 05:43

I don't know exactly as the 'Get PvP Target' option in 'find player' only brings up the first 25 results... and I have 25 results shown.. however, from looking down that list I notice there are a few targets not there that I know are in my range...

Oh hang on.. let me check the top 250 top rated - D'oh! That'll show me... in fact, you could have checked it yourself :P 8)


We misunderstand each other again. Let me rephrase. Do you anticipate you will be attacked in PvP for your rating? Have you recently been attacked (Stang doesn't count) for pvp rating?

I am less concerned with the # of possible attackers and more wondering how many actual attackers you see.

#180 fs_regnier7

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Posted 14 August 2010 - 05:48

EDIT: I currently have 47 targets in my range for PvP, +/- 10 levels...



hrmm.... I think there needs to be an increase every 100 or 200 levels after 200 for the hitting range.

Every 100 would be +/- 45 for you and every 200 would be +/- 25.... either should leave you with a decent amount of targets.

Another step towards balancing things out for all a bit.


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