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Aggressive Criticism


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#21 fs_licker

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Posted 25 August 2010 - 18:44

But time is a real commodity. Virtual world or not. FSP is also virtual but it has a monetary value. If it doesn't why not sell me 1000 FSP for $10. I"M GIVING YOU REAL WORLD MONEY FOR VIRTUAL STUFF.. WHAT A GREAT DEAL RIGHT? :P

Quality work takes time, and don't assume people are enjoying their work so much you can decide not to pay them what they are worth.

It's exactly this kind of thinking that kills art in the end. When the artist can't make ends meet and end up doing some 'real job'.

#22 fs_licker

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Posted 25 August 2010 - 18:48

Besides abstract, nothing can really be made that isnt based on an existing idea, or a collection of existing ideas.


I disagree. I don't think that there is a avatar of a two headed rainbow dinosaur carrying a pitchfork at the moment. A combination of ideas can be original.

#23 lostviking

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Posted 25 August 2010 - 18:55

You've proven my point. We take existing ideas and change them into something new that we can see, just as you are doing. Since dinosaurs, rainbows, pitchforks, and having 2 heads arent things you made up, its the same thing.

#24 Sahardy

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Posted 25 August 2010 - 18:57

But time is a real commodity. Virtual world or not. FSP is also virtual but it has a monetary value. If it doesn't why not sell me 1000 FSP for $10. I"M GIVING YOU REAL WORLD MONEY FOR VIRTUAL STUFF.. WHAT A GREAT DEAL RIGHT? :P

Quality work takes time, and don't assume people are enjoying their work so much you can decide not to pay them what they are worth.

It's exactly this kind of thinking that kills art in the end. When the artist can't make ends meet and end up doing some 'real job'.



Actually.
This is quoted from Zeitgeist 2.(Not word for word, mind you.)
"When you make a painting, and you really like it. You want to give it someone as a gift. You don't want to sell it."

Art is emotion.

I'm going to argue against you, thinking that you HAVE to sell art for a reasonable price to be an artist. You are thinking as a business person, not an artist. You go on and on about. "Well, see here we have to allocate our time appropriately. See what is the best way to invest our resources." and so on and so forth. That's what makes artists different. I'm pretty sure all the respectable artists understand how much they're getting paid. Whatever their cost is, it's a small fee for their time. What they really get in return, is a happy customer--a happy person.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Art is either recreational or revolutionary." as my mother always said
All that of which you said has been done before. And you aren't starting a revolution.

Vincent Van Gogh and other artists similar to him around his time period started a revolution against high detailed paintings of war for a calmer picture.

Sahardy.gif
good photographyer. great drawer. but im most best at photoshop.

 


#25 Bunnybee

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Posted 25 August 2010 - 18:59

I'm seeing the point licker is trying to make getting turned back on him, which is kind of weird. My original thought, or one of them, was to say people shouldn't accuse other people of stealing or copying someone else's work. Not when that's what this all is, altered or not.

Ugh. Look, all I'm saying is not everybody wants or needs to create these things the same way. Getting better is something we should all strive for, and I know I am. Saying that doing it the way you are is the ultimate goal just seems wrong. It's very beautiful, and enhances some images and makes them more than what they were originally. I would like to master the art form, so I can look at something and have the option of doing it that way if I think it calls for it. Or not.

It's not fair to be telling anyone, "If it's not done exactly this way, it's wrong." Sometimes it's bad, I can't argue that, and I see some very patient and considerate comments out there in the forum clearly meant to help. I think where it's not warranted to rip on something is where it looks just fine, right size, clear, something new I haven't seen in FS before. (*Cheers for something new by the way!!!*)

You guys are so good, I think you forgot what it's like to not know anything at all. I haven't, lol. Getting something into a 200x200 size, while still keeping it's feel and integrity, it's nothing to sneeze at.

#26 lostviking

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Posted 25 August 2010 - 19:07

I'm not saying that is wrong, I'm just saying that you cant dismiss what we do because it doesnt fall under your definition of "original"

#27 Bunnybee

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Posted 25 August 2010 - 19:09

"It's exactly this kind of thinking that kills art in the end. When the artist can't make ends meet and end up doing some 'real job'."

Licker that is so funny...or not, depending how you look at it. :P I said I paint, and I do. You know where I make the most money though? Christmas. Window painting. Snowmen, and penguins, hastily hatched in pine trees covered in gesso "snow." (Hey a little bucket of that is cheaper than white acrylic, and imagine how much you go through for this kind of stuff.)

People walk by and ooh and aah over what I consider lucrative dribble. I'm happy to have the seasonal work, but I find myself wanting to tell them about my "real art." Not only wouldn't they care, they probably wouldn't even like it. :?

Guess that was kind of a side trip, but since we're talking about art, what the heck~

#28 Bunnybee

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Posted 25 August 2010 - 19:11

LV! I never dismissed your work personally, or the style of it in general, nothing like that! All I've done is compliment it. :( How can you say that? Any comments even remotely resembling that would be strictly against any such attitude.

#29 Sahardy

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Posted 25 August 2010 - 19:13

LV! I never dismissed your work personally, or the style of it in general, nothing like that! All I've done is compliment it. :( How can you say that? Any comments even remotely resembling that would be strictly against any sort of attitude like that.



He's talking about Licker saying we aren't original.
Like I say, time and time again.

It's all been done before, and if it hasn't. Everyone is going to try and copy you.

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good photographyer. great drawer. but im most best at photoshop.

 


#30 Bunnybee

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Posted 25 August 2010 - 19:22

Licker was not attacking anyone's originality for the sake of attacking though. If I understand correctly, he was only making a point that it's a little 'pot calling the kettle black' for someone who alters images to say that to someone who does not. (Or does very little.)

#31 lostviking

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Posted 25 August 2010 - 20:46

If that is the case he could have worded it much better.

#32 fs_fourbrezio

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Posted 25 August 2010 - 20:54

You can tell when someone is just doing it for a quick FSP (being lazy) and when they are working on their art in general. So please be more careful before you post your default "text slapper" remarks and try to help the artist become better!


THIS. IS. IT.

This is the root and solution to the whole discussion, and it was exactly what I tried to point out earlier.

@licker

Lost basically made the whole point. Personally, I aspire to be a freelance graphic designer. But I in no way care about money to FSP conversions. I got my start here, and I plan to better myself here and anywhere I can. But the FSP gives me an incentive to work harder, as if it was for real money. If someone is lazy, but steals possible customers effectively, then you can bet I'm going to say something about his/her work in front of as many people as possible. Lastly, if you knew really knew decent typography, you would realize that it has no bearing in this discussion.
-------------------------------------------------------
@bunny

We fully understand the points you and licker are trying to make. But we have to keep reiterating our points.

'pot calling the kettle black' for someone who alters images to say that to someone who does not. (Or does very little.)

That's just it, we either alter the images immensely, so that they are more appealing to the buyer or the one receiving the gift. It is just one art form, but it can be accomplished through many different styles. Someone who doesn't alter images does not express an art form IMO. They resize (sometimes), add text, done. It's more about knowing simple steps to take on your program of choice rather than expression.

But here's where were getting confused. Someone who does very little may still want to improve (someone who does nothing may want to improve as well, but it's unlikely) because they may accept critique on their piece. It's the agitating people who are flat out rude when they receive CnC on their work and don't want to improve that we hate. We enjoy what we do, if said person is just trying to make it further in the game then so be it. But if you want to post your work here as advertisement (testament to your fail) then prepare to have it commented on.

/thread

#33 CanTrustMe

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Posted 25 August 2010 - 21:01

Good discussion people, this way it stays out of other people's thread. Which comes back to my main point, no one gets hurt as long as everyone's polite and civil.

#34 fs_okomakiako

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Posted 25 August 2010 - 22:18

Just recently my former Computer graphics teacher in high school called me and asked me to hold a workshop to teach teachers how to use Photoshop. (And to think I just graduated from there lol)

But in order to teach them I wanted to make a well written series of tutorials with pictures and the whole shebang. (Or better yet a video, but i'm not a very good speaker)

If I am able to make these tutorials I'll be sure to host them somewhere and link them here in the forums for everybody to see and use. It may not help the more experienced artists here, but it's an introduction to Photoshop to anybody that hasn't used it before.

I still have college though so I don't know if I can make them in time for my workshop in RL. Which is kinda scary, if that happens i'll have to wing it and teach them on the spot. That would be a daunting challenge for an 18 year old who is teaching the people who taught him not only 3 months ago. =/
Either way, i'll try to compose something for anybody to use by mid-September. Regardless of if I finish it before my workshop

#35 Bunnybee

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Posted 25 August 2010 - 22:25

OKO!!!

*hughughug*

Hi sweetnessness. :mrgreen:

#36 fs_okomakiako

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Posted 25 August 2010 - 22:27

OKO!!!

*hughughug*

Hi sweetnessness. :mrgreen:


Howdy BB! ^^

Sorry I haven't said hello in a while, i've been busy with GGT and with College and RL. :mrgreen:

#37 Bunnybee

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Posted 25 August 2010 - 22:36

No worries, I'll just catch you where and when I can. Like here, just now, lol. :D

#38 fs_fourbrezio

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 01:00

That's awesome to hear Oko :D I would LOVE to be in that position so I could teach all the stupid art teachers at my school.

Oh and if you need any help composing tutorials just let me know. I can try to either find or make a few tutorials for ya, as a way of saying thanks for hosting the past GGT :)

Just drop me a PM


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