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PvP Resource Change


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#61 DaleJunior

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Posted 25 August 2010 - 16:45

If this is the case, my friend, why have any rewards at all???


Because it would reward players who enjoy pvp and are good at it?

Do you do arena solely for profit, dale? Or is that a side benefit?


I do it because it's an addiction. There was a time when it was possible to profit from it, but I have not made a profit from the arena in a very very long time, I'm sorry to say. Just grinding out the wins now a couple per day because there's still a Crystal Medal off there somewhere in the distance. So to answer the question, anything I gain from it is a side benefit or a tool to use for other things. You said the PvP ladder shouldn't be about profit. Shouldn't your "reward" as a pvp'er simply be the "glory" and "honor" of being atop the ladder? Seems like that is what people are saying, but I might be misunderstanding.

#62 fs_theoryman

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Posted 25 August 2010 - 16:45

How about PvP rating can only be gained and not lost from the BB.

#63 kingtyrin

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Posted 25 August 2010 - 16:46

It is absurd to start binding things after people or guilds spend hundreds of FSP and thousands of stamina to get them. It is too late for these items. If you want bound rewards, make some new ones.

Yes, the thought of having a ladder that actually reflects those who are dominant at pvp like this was all supposed to be about is absurd compared to profit and investment :|
The items are not bound, just the resources, much to the pvpers chagrin.
If they level link the recipes to character level though, it will be the next best thing to binding the items to fight farming and multis. . . . .

#64 Tarnos

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Posted 25 August 2010 - 16:46

what about adding top 100 ladder? come on...it will help alot :) and its nice...at least more ppls have chance..because i see top 50 player with 1700 pvp rating...or more :/ its alot...he had to use alot of stamina to get 1700..and be top 50...and just for 1 token -.-

#65 fs_mrhappy69

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Posted 25 August 2010 - 16:46

We'll post tomorrow what we're planning to do to improve the ladder, however for now please keep your posts constructive and we'll take your feedback into account :)


ok well my suggestion is to make different ladders for your level that way more players have a shot at making first... and if you want you can combine all the ladders onto a bigger one that way the players with the most points in each ladder get bonus tokens... or something like that... make it something like each ladder is level 1-100 and then 101-200 and so on =] let me know what everyone thinks about this

#66 winemaker

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Posted 25 August 2010 - 16:46

so can we sent in a ticket to get our gold refunded after this change as the recipes are useless...u gave fsp back to players after changing the stats on the items so there should be no reason not to refund everyone who is sitting with useless recipes now...right?

#67 Spitfire666123

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Posted 25 August 2010 - 16:47

Ok seriously, HOW is this going to help the abuse... lol, if you ask me it will make it worse.
Because the only people who are realy interested in pvp now are the inventors and people that where pvping before.
I for one would be more than happy to pay some fsp to keep my rating, since these sets will be sold for 100's of fsp.
People who do not like to invent have no use for these resources, so they might also keep away from pvp now, so what big good change did you do here HCS?
You just killed pvp again, lol.


im labelled mostly as a 'PvPer'... and i havent done any serious PvPing since the Ladder was re-invented... as all im seeing is something that's even worse than before, and wont do anything like i used to until it gets better...

any Rating increases shown on my profile are from gold stealing, and my routine 10-stam hit rounds made to everybody i notice on my level ;)

#68 DaleJunior

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Posted 25 August 2010 - 16:48

It is absurd to start binding things after people or guilds spend hundreds of FSP and thousands of stamina to get them. It is too late for these items. If you want bound rewards, make some new ones.


YES!

#69 fs_gravely

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Posted 25 August 2010 - 16:48



There's a difference between the main goal being profit and an activity being profitable.

If I hit someone for 2 million gold I probably am profiting, but I assure you that is not why I hit them.


Well your main goal isn't profit, nor is a lot of people who still pvp even though they 'could' theoretically make a lot of profit from it. Theres no difference between then and now really..


Except the ladder is supposed to be fixed, which is the real point here (for some of us).

Rewards are secondary, a better PvP measurement system is the main goal for anyone who cares about PvP. You don't, so of course you don't like any proposal about binding. That's not good or bad, but don't claim that just because I'm not motivated solely by profit that I'm not being consistent.

#70 sjohn

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Posted 25 August 2010 - 16:48

well its for the better

#71 Maehdros

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Posted 25 August 2010 - 16:49

The items created should also be bound.In my opinion.

#72 fs_scarybug

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Posted 25 August 2010 - 16:52

this is do true we players who dont have alot of fsp and wanted to pvp to at least one moo bank to sell is all a disgrace to us now :evil: cud go back to titan hunting and sell items from titans instead of pvping i lost 3 levels trying to pvp and got to 24th and now i hear its (bounded) cud of saved alot of fsp and gold


It shouldn't be about profit.

It should be about who has skill and who participates in the PvP system.


In an ideal world that would be so, but in a game as profit-driven as this, the system is bound(no puns intended :lol: ) to be about profit more than about skill, if its rewards are powerful items. That sell for hundreds of fsps.

I might be a part of a minority in the PvP part of the community, but while I'd PvP without profit if bored, doing it for profit is a much better incentive for me.

(on a side note, if attack isn't a problem, nuryns would be a pretty damn sweet set to use at my level, a lot of extra armor and damage, compared to anything else)

#73 Tarnos

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Posted 25 August 2010 - 16:52

The items created should also be bound.In my opinion.

what about fsp spent on buying item? :/ i rather make one by myself doing pvp instead of wasting 300fsp for item...

#74 fs_gravely

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Posted 25 August 2010 - 16:53

I do it because it's an addiction. There was a time when it was possible to profit from it, but I have not made a profit from the arena in a very very long time, I'm sorry to say. Just grinding out the wins now a couple per day because there's still a Crystal Medal off there somewhere in the distance. So to answer the question, anything I gain from it is a side benefit or a tool to use for other things. You said the PvP ladder shouldn't be about profit. Shouldn't your "reward" as a pvp'er simply be the "glory" and "honor" of being atop the ladder? Seems like that is what people are saying, but I might be misunderstanding.


So you see where players who enjoy the activity for the sake of the activity might not want profit to be the overriding goal, good to see.

Dale, who said that PvPers asked for rewards of this magnitude? Most of us saw the stats and saw the abuse coming from the very beginning.

In point of fact, most PvP players that are active posters (and those I talk to in game) never asked for ANY type of rewards via the ladder.

#75 Mister Doom

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Posted 25 August 2010 - 16:53

Except the ladder is supposed to be fixed, which is the real point here (for some of us).

Rewards are secondary, a better PvP measurement system is the main goal for anyone who cares about PvP. You don't, so of course you don't like any proposal about binding. That's not good or bad, but don't claim that just because I'm not motivated solely by profit that I'm not being consistent.


I'm not, I'm simply stating that although your old component idea was never implemented there 'was' reasoning behind it. People are more likely to partake in aspects of FS if there is the possibility to turn a little profit, even if it is just a nice side-effect.

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#76 dowuones

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Posted 25 August 2010 - 16:54

I see a problem in having resourve bound and not the items. This will make item even more valuable, and so probably we will see more abuse.

#77 grimnok

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Posted 25 August 2010 - 16:54

It is absurd to start binding things after people or guilds spend hundreds of FSP and thousands of stamina to get them. It is too late for these items. If you want bound rewards, make some new ones.

Yes, the thought of having a ladder that actually reflects those who are dominant at pvp like this was all supposed to be about is absurd compared to profit :|
The items are not bound, just the resources, much to the pvpers chagrin.
If they level link the recipes to character level though, it will be the next best thing to binding the items to fight farming and multis. . . . .


Binding the resources as others have said is almost pointless, the same farming/multi'ing incentives are still there.

I've no issue with retooling the scoring/reward system to reflect 'real' pvp. But there have only been two ladders worth of 'fake' pvpers winning tokens. If you fix the scoring/reward system, in the long run, the 'real' pvp'ers will reap most of the resources, without binding them.

#78 fs_evfisher

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Posted 25 August 2010 - 16:54

As it stand right now, with rating tied into the BB, players who PvP, are losing their "hard earned rating" while on the BB, and those players are very upset about that. One of my mates got hit 3 times yesterday. He was being farmed. He had been inactive for 22 days. He bountied his attacker. He got very upset when he got 100 stam hits on his bounty, and watched as his points deteriorated, and threatened 100 stam retaliation hits. The same player had hit others in my guild also, and got very upset that he got bountied. Because he was farming the points. He was in the 500's.

I see plenty of higher levels on the BB all the time. So apparently, they have plenty of targets to hit.


Where to begin.

First, it's not "hard earned" rating if you're hitting semi inactives. Most players who get rocked on the board are low level players that hit the wrong semi inactive. I've been countered twice, with 8 hunters total, and lost under 100 rating. at least 5 of those hunters had several hundred levels on me.

It is possible to protect your rating on a board excursion now. You merely require this thing called SKILL.

As for being 100 stammed for 100 stammin someone, what exactly is the point? Some idiot rating farmer doesn't like that he got his butt whooped for being an idiot? So what? The point of making 100 stam hits more valuable was to increase reward for increased risk.

Guess what? That player didn't manage their risk very well.


They think it is "hard earned", I guarantee you. If they lose levels, then they have fresh meat targets to hit, that might or might not fight back, and they will lose even more rating if they do fight back. Where as, if you disinfranchise the rating from the BB, and make it so they lose levels, they can gain the rating from hitting actives (fresh meat), and not fear losing it on the BB. :)

#79 Glaucous

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Posted 25 August 2010 - 16:54

the multis will continue the only thing i see coming out of this binding of pvp rewards is the price of the sets sky rocketing because a select group of pvpers have the tokens to spend on the rewards. this is a terrible change to the pvp system. some of the people made it on the ladder honestly why make it so that they cant sell their rewards? this doesn't seem like much of a "fix" you want to fix this problem then manage mutis better.

#80 fs_gravely

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Posted 25 August 2010 - 16:55

I might be a part of a minority in the PvP part of the community, but while I'd PvP without profit if bored, doing it for profit is a much better incentive for me.

(on a side note, if attack isn't a problem, nuryns would be a pretty damn sweet set to use at my level, a lot of extra armor and damage, compared to anything else)


And there's nothing wrong with that, Bug, the question is how to balance profit and pleasure so that the system isn't being constantly and blatantly abused.

Doom, the preceding can also be taken as a response to you. I have no problems with rewards being profitable, it's just that right now they are far TOO profitable. Profit should never be the main goal of the ladder, and it definitely is right now.


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