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#1 Removed22342

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Posted 01 September 2010 - 12:26

... the doubler buff was a gold mine to have. :)

Anyway, I've lost track of gear < 200 but I hunt SE and seen the decline of value in sets like Baron and Cockatrice. Saw someone mentioning that you can 1-hit without buffs up to 150ish or whatever it was with the available gear of today, is this true? 140-150 not a place where you find out about buffs like DD and such anymore?

Does HCS even take this into consideration releasing new gear? I.e not trying to overcome harder realms by introducing 1-hit enablers removing the need to actually read up on buffs (not talking about the buy-them-all approach, but actually trying to find a balance between resources spent/earned and gained XP).

#2 fs_andypearce

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Posted 01 September 2010 - 12:31

... the doubler buff was a gold mine to have. :)

Anyway, I've lost track of gear < 200 but I hunt SE and seen the decline of value in sets like Baron and Cockatrice. Saw someone mentioning that you can 1-hit without buffs up to 150ish or whatever it was with the available gear of today, is this true? 140-150 not a place where you find out about buffs like DD and such anymore?

Does HCS even take this into consideration releasing new gear? I.e not trying to overcome harder realms by introducing 1-hit enablers removing the need to actually read up on buffs (not talking about the buy-them-all approach, but actually trying to find a balance between resources spent/earned and gained XP).


I remember when 140-150 was hard, I honestly think they should update they should update the creatures stats, because it's just too easy...

#3 fs_coyotik

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Posted 01 September 2010 - 12:47

Does HCS even take this into consideration releasing new gear? I.e not trying to overcome harder realms by introducing 1-hit enablers removing the need to actually read up on buffs (not talking about the buy-them-all approach, but actually trying to find a balance between resources spent/earned and gained XP).


Betcha they don't. 1hitting is a piece of cake on vast majority of levels now (and with guild-tagging, any medium-sized or bigger guilds don't really have a problem to put togehter funds to get one copy of the best levelling gear)

#4 Removed22342

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Posted 01 September 2010 - 14:11


Does HCS even take this into consideration releasing new gear? I.e not trying to overcome harder realms by introducing 1-hit enablers removing the need to actually read up on buffs (not talking about the buy-them-all approach, but actually trying to find a balance between resources spent/earned and gained XP).


Betcha they don't. 1hitting is a piece of cake on vast majority of levels now (and with guild-tagging, any medium-sized or bigger guilds don't really have a problem to put togehter funds to get one copy of the best levelling gear)


Even once you pass 186-187? The introduction of Inferno hammer made it possible to 1-hit but you still needed to buff up pretty heavy (from what I remember, before the relic update). Of course, you can choose to make it harder/more interesting on purpose, remember following a thread where someone was documenting how they used Plague up to 120+. :)

There are still places/people out there though without relics or big funds for potions/buffs ... maybe they're the ones getting the most outta the game atm, lol. Not sure where I was going with this but I really think the cows need to put a twist to leveling. At lower levels, design alternative routes which are harder to go through but maybe more rewarding _if_ you manage to get through it successfully and efficiently (shouldn't be 1-hittable even with all the pots in the world and relics, maybe some new fun creature enhancements etc).

#5 winemaker

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Posted 01 September 2010 - 14:20

then take away the 20% bonus from relics. that's what makes the game easy not the gear, i don't have all FF gear nor the best but i do get all the buffs i can and still 2 hit a lot of levels with out the relic. and if i did have the fully empowered relics i know i could 1 hit a lot more levels.

#6 fs_andypearce

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Posted 01 September 2010 - 14:28

then take away the 20% bonus from relics. that's what makes the game easy not the gear, i don't have all FF gear nor the best but i do get all the buffs i can and still 2 hit a lot of levels with out the relic. and if i did have the fully empowered relics i know i could 1 hit a lot more levels.


That's not really the issue in the lower levels, most low levels don't have access to one fully empowered, nevermind two.

#7 kingtyrin

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Posted 01 September 2010 - 14:33

Even once you pass 186-187? The introduction of Inferno hammer made it possible to 1-hit but you still needed to buff up pretty heavy (from what I remember, before the relic update).

I one hit my way back up to 210 whenever I lose levels with nothing but DD for damage buffs. Thats without a single LUP point in damage and no relic gain. . . . . . (I have a 10% bonus now, but Ive done it without it)

That's not really the issue in the lower levels, most low levels don't have access to one fully empowered, nevermind two.

Its possible to one hit without relics from 100-137ish with nothing but three items equipped (jav,kardic, and grasp) without relics lol

#8 fs_coyotik

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Posted 01 September 2010 - 14:40

1hitting is a piece of cake on vast majority of levels now (and with guild-tagging, any medium-sized or bigger guilds don't really have a problem to put togehter funds to get one copy of the best levelling gear)


Even once you pass 186-187?


Just had a look, no relic,
Oggy gloves, Kardic helm, Brettal, Fenaz, Pelacroz, Greshas, Sidel, Marpolo, Cu Sith.
All forged with DD on top and level 150 dmg buffs (excluding IF and ES):
Damage over 4800.

All hunky dory for 187-199.

On 200, a few more items come to play - lezhal, red death ring - dmg over 5000 - and with that, you'll probably manage everything till Steep Nojor comes into play.

I can't be bothered to try without epics - because, really, how many medium and bigger guilds cannot get them?

#9 kingtyrin

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Posted 01 September 2010 - 14:45

On 200, a few more items come to play - lezhal, red death ring - dmg over 5000 - and with that, you'll probably manage everything till Steep Nojor comes into play.

Like I said, you dont even need damage buffs(other then DD) or LUP in damage. Red death ring has less damage then Fenaz btw ;) And dont forget, there is always the red spine ammy if your having trouble at any level. . . . .

#10 Removed22342

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Posted 01 September 2010 - 14:49


Even once you pass 186-187? The introduction of Inferno hammer made it possible to 1-hit but you still needed to buff up pretty heavy (from what I remember, before the relic update).

I one hit my way back up to 210 whenever I lose levels with nothing but DD for damage buffs. Thats without a single LUP point in damage and no relic gain. . . . . . (I have a 10% bonus now, but Ive done it without it)

That's not really the issue in the lower levels, most low levels don't have access to one fully empowered, nevermind two.

Its possible to one hit without relics from 100-137ish with nothing but three items equipped (jav,kardic, and grasp) without relics lol


Why pump a range full with that much mega-supa'-high dam items?

#11 fs_coyotik

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Posted 01 September 2010 - 14:51

On 200, a few more items come to play - lezhal, red death ring - dmg over 5000 - and with that, you'll probably manage everything till Steep Nojor comes into play.

Like I said, you dont even need damage buffs(other then DD) or LUP in damage. Red death ring has less damage then Fenaz btw ;) And dont forget, there is always the red spine ammy if your having trouble at any level. . . . .


Hmm, I'm a noob :).

I remember the days when banshee and tarbida were just about within economical possibilities of our guild... and we got nojor just about when I grew out of it :)

#12 fs_coyotik

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Posted 01 September 2010 - 14:53

Why pump a range full with that much mega-supa'-high dam items?


Coz they don't play the game. So they don't know what and where is and isn't needed.

Or coz they don't care - maybe they think that easy 1hitting is what all the levellers want.

#13 kingtyrin

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Posted 01 September 2010 - 14:55

Why pump a range full with that much mega-supa'-high dam items?

Not a clue. I hate it, and excepting the Fushi set and takashi set, every new thing they release for my levels for a while now seems overly damage heavy :( The balance is way out of whack for pvp as well, armor is way behind everything else for both maximum stat thresholds and total stat points gained for all stats when achieving that maximum value :( Well, Im hoping the Augilts balances it a bit, still trying to get my hands on one lol

I had a thread I stopped paying attention to I need to keep updating that asked a similar question to the one you just asked-
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=96474

#14 DaleJunior

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Posted 01 September 2010 - 15:02

I remember when the Inferno Hammer was so expensive to make that I went out and hunted the Baron myself to get the 3 drops to make the Inferno Handle. And I remember when searching for and finding Steep and getting that oh so wonderful Gauntlet drop meant you had hit the semi jackpot. Ahh...the good ol' days.

#15 Spitfire666123

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Posted 01 September 2010 - 15:19

... the doubler buff was a gold mine to have. :)

Anyway, I've lost track of gear < 200 but I hunt SE and seen the decline of value in sets like Baron and Cockatrice. Saw someone mentioning that you can 1-hit without buffs up to 150ish or whatever it was with the available gear of today, is this true? 140-150 not a place where you find out about buffs like DD and such anymore?

Does HCS even take this into consideration releasing new gear? I.e not trying to overcome harder realms by introducing 1-hit enablers removing the need to actually read up on buffs (not talking about the buy-them-all approach, but actually trying to find a balance between resources spent/earned and gained XP).


I 1-hit 140-150, EASILY... with no epics, no 'new' gear... and no points in Damage from LUP


Even once you pass 186-187? The introduction of Inferno hammer made it possible to 1-hit but you still needed to buff up pretty heavy (from what I remember, before the relic update).

I one hit my way back up to 210 whenever I lose levels with nothing but DD for damage buffs. Thats without a single LUP point in damage and no relic gain. . . . . . (I have a 10% bonus now, but Ive done it without it)

That's not really the issue in the lower levels, most low levels don't have access to one fully empowered, nevermind two.

Its possible to one hit without relics from 100-137ish with nothing but three items equipped (jav,kardic, and grasp) without relics lol


i may have stumbled across a setup that will allow me to 1-hit 186... (not sure about 187 yet, havent checked stats)... and again... no epics, no 'new' gear... and no pts in damage LUP... =\ granted, i MAY need to run SSI the entire time to prevent death, lol

#16 Cathbadh

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Posted 01 September 2010 - 15:34

I remember when.. all this was just fields...

DodgeThissig04.jpg


#17 Admiral Memo

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Posted 01 September 2010 - 15:51

I can't be bothered to try without epics - because, really, how many medium and bigger guilds cannot get them?

Honest question: what size do you consider Ikoko Knights, with our 76 members? We've got 2 Inferno Hammers, 2 Air Javelins, and that's it, and we can't get any more due to lack of funding. We're making ends meet, but we have plateaued and haven't grown in a long while.

#18 fs_coyotik

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Posted 01 September 2010 - 18:14

I can't be bothered to try without epics - because, really, how many medium and bigger guilds cannot get them?

Honest question: what size do you consider Ikoko Knights, with our 76 members? We've got 2 Inferno Hammers, 2 Air Javelins, and that's it, and we can't get any more due to lack of funding. We're making ends meet, but we have plateaued and haven't grown in a long while.


Seeing that majority of those members are below 100 and about 40% of guild XP is retired members, I'd say that you will be medium soon :) - but I thikn that if the few higher-level members started working a little for the guild, you shouldn't have a problem putting funds together for a level 300 epic quite easily.

I remember when I was about level 130 how we spent some serious fund-raising efforts as a guild to get together a bunch of forged gear that, while not a set, still was a profitable way to 1hitkill 130-140... We introduced a policy that anybody on level 130 had to contribute 1FSP per each level they made till about 170. Later, as FSP price rose, we shifted this one-time-payment duty to higher levels and finally abolished it together - and there's just a gold tax now, stretching from peanuts at low levels up to 200k per level at some 800+ or so.

It's not easy at lower levels, but if you get all people to actively cooperate, if you convince them that those spending money will be able to make good decisions and spend for everyone's good, it is doable - and for that team work, the guild is then rewarded greatly.

BTW, earth hammer for level 300 would right now 1 FSP per guild member excluding the inactives. Is that a big problem?

And another "BTW" is money-wasting. What's your total guild upkeep? Ours is <80k.

#19 Admiral Memo

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Posted 01 September 2010 - 18:43

Seeing that majority of those members are below 100 and about 40% of guild XP is retired members, I'd say that you will be medium soon :) - but I think that if the few higher-level members started working a little for the guild, you shouldn't have a problem putting funds together for a level 300 epic quite easily.

*busts up laughing* If we "started working a little for the guild"? The higher-levels are already working our butts off just to break even.

It's not easy at lower levels, but if you get all people to actively cooperate, if you convince them that those spending money will be able to make good decisions and spend for everyone's good, it is doable - and for that team work, the guild is then rewarded greatly.

We're doing that and we're breaking even.

BTW, earth hammer for level 300 would right now 1 FSP per guild member excluding the inactives. Is that a big problem?

Alright... I'm getting conflicting information on this. You're saying we'd be able to buy an Earth Hammer for 60 FSPs? Then why do I have a good friend who used to be in our guild saying that she'd give us an Earth Hammer for 100 FSPs? Are you including crafting and forging or just a vanilla Earth Hammer?

And another "BTW" is money-wasting. What's your total guild upkeep? Ours is <80k.

68K per hour for us. I'm asking the other founders if we can save a little bit by demolishing our Crafter's Workshop, Inventor's Laboratory, and Health Shrine. I don't know if we're actively using them. It would only save us 2,353 gold per hour, though, but every little bit helps.

#20 fs_nthnclls

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Posted 01 September 2010 - 18:46

I remember when I couldn't afford the Golden Cockatrice set. :oops:


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