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#81 BigGrim

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Posted 28 September 2010 - 09:39

Also, when will these old recipes be taken out so that new ones may come in? Or WILL they even BE taken out? lol, maybe you want the new stuff to trickle in slowwwly.

Edit: BigGrim....if you remove just ONE thing from the arena out of the old items...please let it be the Toril set items. These sometimes take a full day or 2 to fill. And now with the last update another one appeared, leaving 1 less slot for new stuff for another day or so. lol. Thanks for all your help. The new stuff is great, but overall, I think people will agree the arena is still going rather slowly.


I'll start cycling older items out once I have the Admin tool to make it easier.

#82 DaleJunior

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Posted 28 September 2010 - 09:57

Also, when will these old recipes be taken out so that new ones may come in? Or WILL they even BE taken out? lol, maybe you want the new stuff to trickle in slowwwly.

Edit: BigGrim....if you remove just ONE thing from the arena out of the old items...please let it be the Toril set items. These sometimes take a full day or 2 to fill. And now with the last update another one appeared, leaving 1 less slot for new stuff for another day or so. lol. Thanks for all your help. The new stuff is great, but overall, I think people will agree the arena is still going rather slowly.


I'll start cycling older items out once I have the Admin tool to make it easier.


*shakes fist@Hoofmaster*.. Give Him the Admin Tool!!!!!

#83 DaleJunior

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Posted 28 September 2010 - 11:16

You know, I was doing a little thinking about these new arena sets and about what it is going to take to get some of them made. I have a sinking feeling that the majority of these new sets are going to be out of reach of over 99% of the Fallen Sword players for quite some time. Let's just do some "creative math". lol.

5 out of the 6 sets are 4 items, so we'll use a 4 item set for the example. Each item in the set requires 2 each of 2 new arena components. When these items first come out they routinely fetch prices upwards of 200, 300 or 400 fsp. For this example, let's say that the price evens out at 200 fsp per component for the new level 710 set. So each item will cost you 800 fsp. I am not counting the fact that Inventor 2 might kick in, this is worst case scenario. An inventor who does not win the items in the arena is looking at 3200 fsp just for the components needed to "try" to invent a complete set.

Then there are the SE items required to make the sets as well. Since I don't know for sure what they are, i will base it on what I know. Most of the items I've seen so far use at least 2 SE items in each piece. That's 8 SE items required. I'll stay cheap and say 20 fsp each, that's another 160 fsp before the first "invent now" is clicked.

Now we must factor in the "Below Average" rate of invention. Granted, this is the beginning rate before buffs and Master Inventor. Let's say that with Master Inventor and Inv. 1 and 2 it goes up to "Average".

Cost so far: 3,360 fsp. If all 4 items are invented successfully and none of the major components are saved, that is the investment a person will have to make at those prices for a 4 piece set. To make a profit you're lookiin' at a 3,500 to 4,000 fsp set. That better be one helluva set!! Of course where the inventor hopes to make a killing is with the inventor 2, that's the only place profit lies in this scenario unless a person won all the components in the arena.

Let's suppose one of the items fails. Now it's another 800 fsp to buy the components again to try over so now we're looking at 4,000 fsps worth of investments. lol.

These numbers and this post is in no way meant to illustrate any displeasure or unhappiness with what's happening with the new arena items. I'm just having some fun, and It's just a little bit of a wake up call of what we're really lookin' at here. With all this in mind, I really don't think it would hurt much to speed up the flow of the new components. lol.

#84 shokolo

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Posted 28 September 2010 - 13:13

Dale

Thats what i was saying a few posts before
I fail to see how this benefits anyone but the arena pro players

And some off topic feedback for you cows

I am one of those who donates to the game, even the little i donate is more then i can afford, i do that simply because i think you need the donations to keep the game going.

But i must say, each time i donate i tell my self it will be the last time, this also cause me to doante in further increments since i do not feel i get any thing from it

The latest addition you made just enhance those feelings since i will not going to spend 100`s of $ for the sake of getting my self a new set.

A 170-300k gold entrey fee to arena turns in to a 500+ fsp item to buy, and as Dale mentioned , you need 4 of them , this will also wont make me pick up arena.

I do believe you guys need to think of the whole community when adding new sets, even if you do it via the arena , and allow another mean of getting those items. such as putting them in the caves at high cost to find ( 50-100k gold ) which will benefit the rest of the players buy having a constant gold sink and means to access those items .

Sadly, as much as i want to , i can not say i am enjoying your latest updates , and that will effect what i am willing to put into the game

[/off topic ]

#85 kingtyrin

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Posted 28 September 2010 - 13:28

Thats what i was saying a few posts before
I fail to see how this benefits anyone but the arena pro players

The whole point is people have been asking for arena updates. Constantly. No one said hunting needs to be made easier or any of that (Thank god) so why would more gear be found elsewhere? Much the same way classic LE events only benefit those who have the space to sit on the items long term, or Cave LEs only benefit those who can afford it, the Cows are trying to make one group happy, and in this case its the arena players. Lets face it, the arena was just depressing before this, definably was the slowest its been since they divided the pages up.

But did they do a good job? Too early to tell, but I would speculate that if the community wont pay the sought after prices, the prices will come down. They always do, arena prizes almost always end up selling for cheaper then their entry fees (Mainly excepting the inventables that came out most recently)Classic supply vs demand, and there will be no demand if the price is too high, as the supply only increases ;) Think about it.

More people will also try to get in there in win (really, its not hard, especially with as many guilds that have so much tagged gear for everyone) which will mean faster arenas and more gold being sunk. More gold being sunk is good for anyone who likes to buy cheap FSPs after their hunt because they are scarred of the dreaded find player search of today :lol:


And I dont think the "pros" are winning as much of this new stuff as you would think ;) Look at the FSbox, and look through the new stuff in the AH, many of the winners are not on the top 250 or even top 100, which lately has been a good portion of the active arena community.

I will say, they arnt even close to have given us what we wanted. Look through the "Current arena wishlist" thread, and there was tons of good ideas about changing the arena overall to make it more fun for all and attract more people, but the Cows likely went for the simplest thing possible.


Im sad they didnt add stamina as a prize :( There would never be a slow arena day again.

#86 DaleJunior

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Posted 28 September 2010 - 13:28

Notice I never said that it was a bad thing that thousands of fsps are going to be involved here. I just wanted to take a closer look at what's really going on. I suppose we will all see what happens once each of the new sets has been invented and learn their specific uses and specialties, and that will determine whether or not they will be sets that are in great demand or not. It's entirely possible that these sets will be must haves for the arena, or must haves for PvP, we don't know. But it sure is going to be fun trying to figure it out. And a few people in the game will get richer along the way. (not me, lol)

#87 shokolo

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Posted 28 September 2010 - 13:31

Thats what i was saying a few posts before
I fail to see how this benefits anyone but the arena pro players

The whole point is people have been asking for arena updates. Constantly. No one said hunting needs to be made easier or any of that (Thank god) .


I didnt say i want hunting to be easier, i wish that new items/gear will be more accesible for everyone

#88 Butter250

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Posted 28 September 2010 - 13:35

I just saw one of the new components in an arena that cost 25k to join? I thought they were going to raise the entry fees on those........

#89 kingtyrin

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Posted 28 September 2010 - 13:39

Thats what i was saying a few posts before
I fail to see how this benefits anyone but the arena pro players

The whole point is people have been asking for arena updates. Constantly. No one said hunting needs to be made easier or any of that (Thank god) .


I didnt say i want hunting to be easier, i wish that new items/gear will be more accesible for everyone

Everyone has equal chances in the arena, there is no favoritism. The RNG hates us all equally, just some days it doesnt seem so :lol:

Honestly, did you read that arena wishlist thread? If you pay really close attention, there is people with crystal medals that really dont have a clue. If they can throw on a set and enter enough until they win, you can too.

What would you like to see? An LE? Where its all luck and doesnt require that tiny bit of skill anyways and all the items get devalued massively quicker? There is no escapi9ng luck in this game between activation rates on buffs and creatures drop rates and the 2% and everything, but rewarding for straying away from it the furthest possible certainly doesnt sound like a bad idea to me.

#90 shokolo

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Posted 28 September 2010 - 13:46

I did follow the arena thread , which make me wonder how hard do i need to cry to get something.

But, i think the game will benefit more if more players have access to new sets without having to pay 5k points per set, i am not saying give it for free, but make it something reachable ( not by playing arena) without a credit card .

But meh.....who cares...right?

#91 fs_gravely

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Posted 28 September 2010 - 13:47

Entry fees need to be higher.

HP and items and set bonuses, Grim. Some of this gear has four stats per piece. That isn't very good.

#92 BigGrim

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Posted 28 September 2010 - 13:56

I didnt say i want hunting to be easier, i wish that new items/gear will be more accesible for everyone


I honestly believe that it is better to have come things exclusive as prizes for certain areas. Why would you join the arena to win these if you could just get them from the Caves. New items come out in the caves and have been exclusive there too.

As for cave pros, well, I have been listening to what is happening, (mostly the much maligned Turtles) and have listened to player feedback as to things to try. New heavy Att, Arm or Damage items were on the list which is something I could directly tackle. Thus I have. There were also code ideas. I've noted them and will see if any are possible. We will try it out and see what happens.

#93 BigGrim

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Posted 28 September 2010 - 13:58

Entry fees need to be higher.


Which ones?

HP and items and set bonuses, Grim. Some of this gear has four stats per piece. That isn't very good.


You count maybe 15 points per item as bad? We will only do 2 stat items on two item sets. So three stats ain't bad.

#94 fs_gravely

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Posted 28 September 2010 - 14:01

Entry fees need to be higher.


Which ones?


Stone Casks are definitely worth more than 25k. I'd like to see a minimum of 75k to 100k (half an FSP is fine if you're going to sell the damn reward for hundreds of FSP...) Recipes appear to be fine, but all components need to be looked at and tweaked as needed.

HP and items and set bonuses, Grim. Some of this gear has four stats per piece. That isn't very good.


You count maybe 15 points per item as bad? We will only do 2 stat items on two item sets. So three stats ain't bad.


Yes, here's why - it screws with hellforging. 3 stat items are not necessarily bad, but 4 is most definitely pushing it.

As for only doing 2 stats per item on 2 item sets, well that's part of the problem, lol....mix it up a little, grim.

#95 shokolo

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Posted 28 September 2010 - 14:02

I didnt say i want hunting to be easier, i wish that new items/gear will be more accesible for everyone


I honestly believe that it is better to have come things exclusive as prizes for certain areas. Why would you join the arena to win these if you could just get them from the Caves. New items come out in the caves and have been exclusive there too.

As for cave pros, well, I have been listening to what is happening, (mostly the much maligned Turtles) and have listened to player feedback as to things to try. New heavy Att, Arm or Damage items were on the list which is something I could directly tackle. Thus I have. There were also code ideas. I've noted them and will see if any are possible. We will try it out and see what happens.


BG,you need 20 quest items from the Arena to make the lvl 710 set,does that seems right to you?
And ok, you want some items to be accessible only at certain areas,well, i like to invent ( or used to) ,how about addind a third cave where you can only get the components from there?

I dont like arena,but i will go to the cave and roll my dice at getting components if you add that , but maybe there are not eniugh who cries about it?,or its not an important enough aspect for you guys to deal with?

#96 kingtyrin

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Posted 28 September 2010 - 14:09

I did follow the arena thread , which make me wonder how hard do i need to cry to get something.

There were arenas taking 3-4 days to fill. Players crying about it or not, you wouldnt consider this as a flawed aspect of the game if it simply isnt generating enough interest even within its loyal crowd? We are talking about 8 or 16 people needed and it would take that long to gather that. Each arena like that would slow down other things from coming out. Wouldnt you be a bit upset if whatever you wanted to do in FS took days to happen?

But, i think the game will benefit more if more players have access to new sets without having to pay 5k points per set, i am not saying give it for free, but make it something reachable ( not by playing arena) without a credit card .

Most times they release new gear in levels of existing content, people dont have to pay 5k or what not. We are still basing this all on speculative information. I doubt it will stay in 4 digits long. Its not like the writhing ward where we have to wait for an LE for new resources, we are talking SE things that are killed constantly, and arena components that as long as they are somewhat valuable will also be churning out constantly.

Wow, i know I was slow to type, but cmon you guys :P lol

But meh.....who cares...right?

Well, you do, and I have always respected your opinion, that is why Im taking the time to respond with how I see it. Who knows, maybe further explaining yourself will bring others to see it your way. In the meantime, I simply cant. the MP will have a bit more control ( a constant one, not just one that will turn right back around like the caves usually do) and people are trying to join all the older stuff so massively to get the newer stuff, its even making that stuff more affordable.

#97 Butter250

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Posted 28 September 2010 - 14:11

Maybe after the sets and components have been in circulation for 6 months they could come out with an LE event that would drop some of the quest items at an extremely low drop rate and I mean extremely low. This would require them to come up with LE's for all the new sets though. This could possibly be a way to still make some of the sets they retire out of the arena to still be available in limited quantities.

#98 fs_moxcyn

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Posted 28 September 2010 - 14:15

Iwaos Buckler

Level 100 Shield

Requires:
2 X Stone Cask
2 X Stone Figurine
1 X Lusika Shield
1 X Cockatrice Boots
1 X Cockatrice Armor

2 X GooberNoob Beak (
Stats:
Attack: 142
Defense: 73
Damage: 45

Chance of success: Below Average :shock:

#99 DaleJunior

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Posted 28 September 2010 - 14:37

I personally don't think it's such a bad thing that an uber high powered high level set takes a lot of components. Remember when the Brices and ormar's sets first came out? They both took a ton of arena items, and they were only 2 and 3 piece sets, these are 4 piece sets. You ought to have to work for them. It is going to take a few months for them to be "affordable" for the masses, but in the meantime, those who want to can make a few arena champs rich along the way. lol.

I actually don't mind the 4 piece sets, but grave is right, it does diminish the hell forging aspect of it. I still think that in these cases the fact that the items have 4 stats will not keep people from hell forging them just because of the extra stat, so it won't matter as much in these items. But in general, there shouldn't be a lot of 4 stat items. I like that 4th HP stat because after crafting and forging it's just enough to last 60 full rounds if you're just using one item out of the set. Makes you get more creative when deciding how many HP you need for a particular arena if you want to just use part of a set.

BG, I think it's exciting to play in the arena again. I still wish that there was something we could do even to have the gold arenas speed up more, but I'm not sure how that would work. And regarding all the various mechanics and tweaking certain moves, I'll leave that to more capable, technical minds than mine. I think that this has somewhat reinvigorated the arena and once items begin flowing and people begin inventing, the SE market will also see some life as well. One can only hope. Thanks for giving us some attention. :)

#100 Sakuliver

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Posted 28 September 2010 - 14:51

even though it's great that some interest is back now to the arena and it will remain a bit before some sets are around, it perfectly illustrates the structural problems in the arena. So even if it is fun to have the excitement of new sets, which is providing a nice gold sink for a bit, some coding time (I'd say a whole week 8) ) would do a lot more.
Just take one of the arenas for the new components, in most of them no moves are allowed, so what we see is the usual old picture of full Armor getting 1 damage and full Damage with nothing happening. It is still a pure lottery, though it seems that still the same select, very small group of people win 80% of the arenas....why? because they have become überrich already and can afford to stack all the most expensive newer additions to the game.


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