Jump to content

Photo

Suggestion: PvP Ladder Changes (v2)


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
524 replies to this topic

Poll: Which of the options above do you feel would help improve the PvP Ladder? (359 member(s) have cast votes)

Which of the options above do you feel would help improve the PvP Ladder?

  1. Voted Remove PvP Rating transfer from the Bounty Board. (73 votes [20.33%])

    Percentage of vote: 20.33%

  2. Voted Limit transfer from an individual player to once every 24 hours (this should help prevent organised ratings transfers). (126 votes [35.10%])

    Percentage of vote: 35.10%

  3. Voted Bonus to PvP Rating Transfer for 100 stamina attacks. (134 votes [37.33%])

    Percentage of vote: 37.33%

  4. Voted No changes (26 votes [7.24%])

    Percentage of vote: 7.24%

Vote

#421 fs_avalbane

fs_avalbane
  • Guests

Posted 03 November 2010 - 19:47

ok here we go. revised a bit.

10 = 1
up to
100 =10

not affected by targets accumulated rating.
transfer removed from bounty board.
this will eliminate the need for higher levels to farm, and all the bickering will go away.


I don't necessarily like this too much. It seems as though you are rewarding those who attack more people/use more stamina per attack, in which case I see a PvP board full of lower level farmers, or higher level "max stamina packers."

IMO, transfer shouldn't be removed completely from the board as Bounty Hunting IS a form of PvP.

#422 Ikkaru

Ikkaru

    Member

  • New Members
  • PipPip
  • 178 posts

Posted 03 November 2010 - 19:48

ok here we go. revised a bit.

10 = 1
up to
100 =10

not affected by targets accumulated rating.
transfer removed from bounty board.
this will eliminate the need for higher levels to farm, and all the bickering will go away.


I don't necessarily like this too much. It seems as though you are rewarding those who attack more people/use more stamina per attack, in which case I see a PvP board full of lower level farmers, or higher level "max stamina packers."

IMO, transfer shouldn't be removed completely from the board as Bounty Hunting IS a form of PvP.



Way to take what he said out of context. He was referring to another idea posted

#423 paingwin

paingwin

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,075 posts

Posted 03 November 2010 - 19:49

ok here we go. revised a bit.

10 = 1
up to
100 =10

not affected by targets accumulated rating.
transfer removed from bounty board.
this will eliminate the need for higher levels to farm, and all the bickering will go away.


I don't necessarily like this too much. It seems as though you are rewarding those who attack more people/use more stamina per attack, in which case I see a PvP board full of lower level farmers, or higher level "max stamina packers."

IMO, transfer shouldn't be removed completely from the board as Bounty Hunting IS a form of PvP.


thats why i revised it a little later to say that on board transfer should be treated like prestige. 1 rating per hit. no matter the stam usage

#424 fs_avalbane

fs_avalbane
  • Guests

Posted 03 November 2010 - 19:53

Point to paingwin, return to your corners.

Ok here is my complete idea.

Everyone starts at 10 rating. No more resetting ladder. A 10 stam hit gets 1 rating and so fourth up to a 100 stam that gets 10 rating. The ladder stays in affect so we can track one another and so the dominance medal can still be achieved. Rating transfer stays on the board. Bounty hunters can still bounty hunt and get rating and the higher ups can still have more targets than the 5 in their range.
A moo bank will be 1000 rating, the ruby thing 1250 and the egg 1500. You get your rating to where you want and then sell your rating. You have 1200 rating and buy a moo bank you now have 200 rating.


I know exactly what he was talking about :roll: I still don't like it, tbh. In this case there is NO rating transfer between players, judging by what you're saying in your idea. PvP rating should be obtainable by "stealing" from other players. Looking at the above...it's just rating coming in without rating ever being lost.

#425 Ikkaru

Ikkaru

    Member

  • New Members
  • PipPip
  • 178 posts

Posted 03 November 2010 - 19:55

Ummm where in my idea did I say its not transferred? Lol....
That is why I said the transfer can stay on the board......
It is still transferred.....

#426 paingwin

paingwin

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,075 posts

Posted 03 November 2010 - 19:59

ok wait, back up.

10 = 1
up to
100 = 10

starting rating is 100, 1 rating transfer per bounty hit. off board transfers are the same for everyone. transfers are not directly related to targets accumulated rating. but the rating is transfered.

#427 fs_avalbane

fs_avalbane
  • Guests

Posted 03 November 2010 - 20:12

Sorry for misinterpreting the message.

For your idea though, don't you think I could just go out and hit everyone in range (3 days inactive or more) with 100 stam and completely dominate the ladder?

#428 paingwin

paingwin

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,075 posts

Posted 03 November 2010 - 20:14

Sorry for misinterpreting the message.

For your idea though, don't you think I could just go out and hit everyone in range (3 days inactive or more) with 100 stam and completely dominate the ladder?


well is just a basic idea right now. im sure it can be refined a lot more, but shouldnt the ladder BE dominated to the ones putting forth the stamina to make the hits?

#429 Ikkaru

Ikkaru

    Member

  • New Members
  • PipPip
  • 178 posts

Posted 03 November 2010 - 20:15

Sorry for misinterpreting the message.

For your idea though, don't you think I could just go out and hit everyone in range (3 days inactive or more) with 100 stam and completely dominate the ladder?



.... Your not understanding something. And once you sold some rating it goes away and you have to restart again. And good luck getting 1500 rating in a day when the max you can take is 10.

#430 paingwin

paingwin

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,075 posts

Posted 03 November 2010 - 20:16

ill go and put more thought into this idea, type it up and place it here later.

#431 fs_avalbane

fs_avalbane
  • Guests

Posted 03 November 2010 - 20:17

So basically, you're "sinking" rating away from the game?

#432 paingwin

paingwin

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,075 posts

Posted 03 November 2010 - 20:19

So basically, you're "sinking" rating away from the game?


yeah in a sense i guess so. you use your accumulated rating to buy the rewards. that seems to be the only reason the rating system is under the microscope right now anyway. i dont think removing the rewards should be the answer but a different system is definately needed

#433 Leos3000

Leos3000

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,031 posts

Posted 03 November 2010 - 20:42

ok going to try and combine some ideas and add some of my own for a system with as little loop poles as possible!.

New PVP system

If people want to be dominate at pvp, and be able to see who are then they should have to attack people who have higher then a 1% chance of beating them.

so PVP should be split into brackets

1st a Bracket for attack ranges

levels 1-99 keep the +/- 5 attack range
levels 100-199 increase to +/- 10
levels 200-299 increase to +/- 15
levels 300-399 increase to +/- 20
levels 400-499 increase to +/- 25
levels 500-599 increase to +/- 30
levels 600-699 increase to +/- 35
levels 700-799 increase to +/- 40
levels 800-899 increase to +/- 45
levels 900-999 increase to +/- 50
and so on for every 100 levels achieved you get an additional + 5 to your attack range.

*note when attacking someone below you they have to be able to attack you back
meaning a level 100 player can only attack down to level 95 or a level 500 player can only attack down to 475.

2nd Bracket should be for Bounty hits

I am going to stick with avalbane's brakets for levels

1st bracket 1-99
2nd bracket 100-299
3rd bracket 300-599
4th bracket 600-1200

these could possibly be adjusted once people get above 1200, but this should give plenty of time.

Next thing that needs to be addressed is how people can obtain PVP points

1st off the board hits

10 stamina hits - give 5 pvp points before honor and gloat as long as the target is less then 500 below your current rating (if you are more then 500 points below the person you hit, you would still get 5 points however)

100 Stamina hits- give 50 pvp points before honor and Gloat (with the same limitations as above)

2nd Bounty Board hits

The only way you gain rating is from completing a bounty of a person if you bounty board bracket.

10 stam- give 1 point per win, and you lose 1 per loss to be determined at the end with who wins the bounty.

100 stam- give 10 points with the same parameters as above.

The key to stop cheating for clears, is you are still able to take bounty's out of your level range, how ever you will not gain any pvp points, but here is the kicker the person bountied can and will still lose their pvp points (kinda like a gold sink, except for pvp points) and since they are reset every week or so this won't be a big issue except to stop cheating.

Next would be how PVP ladders would be set up.

here I will stick with Avalbane's numbers again

1st 18 tokens
2nd 14 tokens
3rd 10 toens
4th 6 tokens
5th 2 tokens
6th-10th 1 token

These numbers would apply to each ladder
as far as the dominance medal, I think that each person at the top of their respective ladder should be awarded credit towards the medal.

The Last thing I wanted to address is the time limit proposed initially for attacking

24hrs is too long in my opinion unless HCS you want people to only play the game once a day for a short period?

However a 6hr cool off period for pvp transfer will limit the amount of trading people can do in a weekly period. This can only apply to direct pvp attacks though, not the BB.

Also just throwing this out there, to possibly spur some interest
anytime someone gains pvp from and attack they should also be able to gain prestige. Currently you get Prestige for every bounty board attack, but only get prestige once every 3 days from pvp, I would say there is a lot more risk in pvp attacks (tie this into the 6 hrs limit of pvp transfer) this would encourage more people if only a few to pvp as there are more reasons to try it out, especially with the recent fix to prestige to where it will last more then 1 hour with more then 500 points.

#434 Khanate

Khanate

    Veteran

  • New Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,829 posts

Posted 03 November 2010 - 20:51

I could smell you guys reeking from a mile away with suggestions of increasing several folds the hit range.

Don't screw levelers because you want to alter significantly the PvP system.

#435 paingwin

paingwin

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,075 posts

Posted 03 November 2010 - 21:00

I could smell you guys reeking from a mile away with suggestions of increasing several folds the hit range.

Don't screw levelers because you want to alter significantly the PvP system.


no matter what changes are made to the pvp system, to levelers they are always going to be "the victim".

#436 paingwin

paingwin

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,075 posts

Posted 03 November 2010 - 21:28

ok here is my problem. some may view this as whining but im putting it in here anyway.

this morning, i did 14 100 stamina hits. thats 1400 stamina used. i gained 19 rating per hit. now that is 266 rating total. now 1 of those people bounties me. and a bounty hunter comes along, having not hit anyone in pvp, he takes 5 rating per hit. thats 50 rating exchanged for the same amount of stamina that got me 19. it took me 1400 stamina to gain what i got but it takes 500 for me to lose it to hunters that gain loads just sitting and waiting for someone that has rating to get bountied. rating should stay with those players that are actually out there doing the pvp hits. yes pvp is a risk thats taken but what is the point of using the stamina if someone can come along, use less stamina, and gain more? that is exactly why rating transfer should be minimized on the bounty board because people use the bounty board as a lazy mans way of gaining something that we pvp players work very hard to gain. i have nothing against bounty hunters to say the least, but they get so easily what others work very hard for. THAT is the problem with the pvp ladder. nothing else. the bounty board completely makes a mockery of pvp, by giving them alot of rating for a little bit of effort.

#437 RebornJedi

RebornJedi

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 5,449 posts

Posted 03 November 2010 - 22:51

bounties should take 1 pvp rating per hit

 


#438 fs_avalbane

fs_avalbane
  • Guests

Posted 04 November 2010 - 00:35

More changes have been made. All changes up to this point are in RED.


Judging by the sound of everyone's comments and feedback, I believe most, if not all, would agree that the higher levels have a big advantage over the lower levels on the ladder. Also, it seems as though a lot of people here would agree that dividing the PvP Ladder into separate brackets would be the best route. Looking at the current system, 230 PvP Ladder Tokens are rewarded each and every time the ladder resets.

If HCS were to break the PvP Ladder into separate brackets, it would have to be divided in such a way that everyone throughout the bracket had a legitimate chance of beating someone else in their bracket, regardless of level. In order to maintain the amount of Ladder Tokens coming into the game, and to keep the economy intact, HCS would also have to find a way to even out the token distribution throughout the separate brackets.

~~~Suggestion~~~
Separate Brackets Consisting of a "Top 5" instead of a "Top 50."

Brackets Divided by Level for each subsequent "Range," consisting of 4 brackets.

Instead of 230 tokens coming into the game at a time, decrease or increase the number to allocate the different brackets. Since I'm using the bracket model above, I would decrease the number from 230, to 200.

200 Tokens into the game per reset, divided into 4 different brackets would mean 50 tokens coming into the game per bracket.


~~Top 5~~
Each person finishing in the top of their brackets get's tokens following the model:
1 = 18
2 = 14
3 = 10
4 = 6
5 = 2
6-10 = 1


~~Obtaining PvP Rating~~

From the Bounty Board: If HCS were to take the route of dividing the PvP Ladder into brackets, instead of removing rating transfer completely from the board, make it so you can ONLY obtain rating from those players within your bracket. A player may still complete any other bounty from another bracket for the bounty reward, but the only losses would be gold and experience. For bounty hits, 1 PvP Rating point transfer per attack would be sufficient, yielding a 10 point overall transfer by the end of the bounty.

Note: PvP Rating should ONLY be transferred after the bounty is completed.
Note 2: Clearing bounties with 100 stamina attacks would yield a 10 point per hit transfer, ultimately adding up to a net total of 100 rating if a person clears with all 100 stamina hits.
Note 3: These numbers do NOT take into account the effects of Gloat, nor Honor.
Note 4 (Taken from leos3000): Taking bounties out of your bracket will NOT result in a transfer, but rather a "sink" of rating from the bountied person. In essence, a level 600 CAN take a bounty on a level 100. The 600 will gain NO rating from the bounty, but the 100 WILL lose rating regardless.


Regular Attacks: 10 Stamina attacks would yield a 5 Rating per hit transfer, while a 100 Stamina attack would yield a 50 Rating per hit transfer. Any stamina attack between would be set up using a Step Function rule, would round DOWN, instead of up. For example: 10 Stamina=5 Rating Transfer; 20 Stamina=10 Rating Transfer; 30 Stamina=15 Rating Transfer; and so on, while 17 Stamina=8 Rating Transfer; 64 Stamina=32 Rating Transfer, and so on.

Note: These numbers do NOT take into account the effects of Gloat, nor Honor.


~~Dominance Medal~~
As suggested by many people, each person at the top of their respected brackets would obtain a percentage towards their completion of the Dominance Medal.


~~Brackets~~
20-100; 101-300; 301-600; 601+

~~Mediation~~
Since the extremist levelers don't want an increase in PvP Range, but the extremist PvPers do want an increase in the PvP Range, all PvP Ranges will stay the same for the time being.
Another thing that has been up for debate is the allotted time in which a person can be attacked for rating. Some people scream that 24 hours is too long, and propose a 6-8 hour limit. Those who enjoy the 24 hour limit scream that the 6-8 hour limit would be too short. In essence, you can't satisfy everybody, so cut the 24 in half and have a 12 hour interval for attacking.


#439 Ikkaru

Ikkaru

    Member

  • New Members
  • PipPip
  • 178 posts

Posted 04 November 2010 - 00:58

This is an unrealistic suggestion simply because of how complex it is.

#440 Khanate

Khanate

    Veteran

  • New Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,829 posts

Posted 04 November 2010 - 01:42

ok here is my problem. some may view this as whining but im putting it in here anyway.

this morning, i did 14 100 stamina hits. thats 1400 stamina used. i gained 19 rating per hit. now that is 266 rating total. now 1 of those people bounties me. and a bounty hunter comes along, having not hit anyone in pvp, he takes 5 rating per hit. thats 50 rating exchanged for the same amount of stamina that got me 19. it took me 1400 stamina to gain what i got but it takes 500 for me to lose it to hunters that gain loads just sitting and waiting for someone that has rating to get bountied. rating should stay with those players that are actually out there doing the pvp hits. yes pvp is a risk thats taken but what is the point of using the stamina if someone can come along, use less stamina, and gain more? that is exactly why rating transfer should be minimized on the bounty board because people use the bounty board as a lazy mans way of gaining something that we pvp players work very hard to gain. i have nothing against bounty hunters to say the least, but they get so easily what others work very hard for. THAT is the problem with the pvp ladder. nothing else. the bounty board completely makes a mockery of pvp, by giving them alot of rating for a little bit of effort.


The problem is that the amount of PvP rating gained per hit on the board can hardly be diminished. What I had suggested originally was to BUMP UP the baseline PvP rating to 10000 and multiply by 10 the rating trade for off the board hit.

Some modifications were made to lower on the board hits already so I think a baseline PvP rating of 5000 and a multiplication of 5 on rating trades off the board would help a LOT with balance between on and off the board without ending up with every on the board hit being a '1'. This solution would keep the board in the fold, but would shift a lot of the focus on off the board PvP due to better return on investment.


Furthermore, a maximum of one rating trade a day between players off the board should be added to prevent trading and to reflect that hitting 8 times consecutively a player who is offline is hardly a measure of skills.


1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users

Font:
Arial | Calibri | Lucida Console | Verdana
 
Font Size:
9px | 10px | 11px | 12px | 10pt | 12pt
 
Color: