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Suggestion: PvP Ladder Changes (v2)


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Poll: Which of the options above do you feel would help improve the PvP Ladder? (359 member(s) have cast votes)

Which of the options above do you feel would help improve the PvP Ladder?

  1. Voted Remove PvP Rating transfer from the Bounty Board. (73 votes [20.33%])

    Percentage of vote: 20.33%

  2. Voted Limit transfer from an individual player to once every 24 hours (this should help prevent organised ratings transfers). (126 votes [35.10%])

    Percentage of vote: 35.10%

  3. Voted Bonus to PvP Rating Transfer for 100 stamina attacks. (134 votes [37.33%])

    Percentage of vote: 37.33%

  4. Voted No changes (26 votes [7.24%])

    Percentage of vote: 7.24%

Vote

#461 Cat Girl IRL

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 10:20

And thats perfectly fixed in my suggestion.


Isn't your suggestion essentially only to have a fixed amount of rating transfer per hit? Plus stam, board and level difference factor?



And theres everything thats needed to show whos really dominant and who is not.

#462 FORN

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Posted 10 November 2010 - 09:51

We have been keeping an eye on this, seeing what everyone thinks. some awsome ideas so far.
Sorry i cant speed up any of the time it takes to implament any ideas - im not a coder. :D

#463 Maehdros

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Posted 10 November 2010 - 11:12

Is there any way hoof could pop by and let us know what ideas seem reasonable or possible to be implemented? Is nice for the community to discuss ideas, but ultimately its hcs that implements them...feedback from the hoof is nice too ;)

#464 celendais

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Posted 10 November 2010 - 13:53

and please make sure suspended players are taken off the ladder. Right now at least 2 banned , prolly multis, on the ladder, thus 2 honest players not rewarded. Last ladder a few multis too, prolly rewarded . Token sink lol.


What can coders do? Well remove gloat and honor is a good start and should not be too hard work I guess.

#465 sweetlou

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Posted 10 November 2010 - 14:06

Sorry i cant speed up any of the time it takes to implament any ideas - im not a coder. :D

Periodic heads up are good!

[Signature removed]

 

“When you tear out a man's tongue, you are not proving him a liar, you're only telling the world that you fear what he might say.” -GRRM


#466 Khanate

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Posted 10 November 2010 - 15:30

And thats perfectly fixed in my suggestion.


Isn't your suggestion essentially only to have a fixed amount of rating transfer per hit? Plus stam, board and level difference factor?


And theres everything thats needed to show whos really dominant and who is not.


Fixed rating transfer doesn't do that. It prevents excessive transfer losses from single defeats, but nothing else. Farming on board would still be the best course of action from your numbers, or hitting any non-retaliating person. Whether the target is a seasoned PvPer or a noob doesn't factor into your system. It's a different system with a different set of equally problematic issues.

#467 fs_avalbane

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Posted 10 November 2010 - 16:09

What can coders do? Well remove gloat and honor is a good start and should not be too hard work I guess.


Not trying to be a "devil's advocate" here, and I do agree the game could have done without these 2 buffs, but they were just implemented not too long ago. I highly doubt that the Cows are willing to put something in game, only to completely remove it almost right after it entered the playing field.


Just a BUMPITY for the Moo-Cows :D

~~~Suggestion~~~
Separate Brackets Consisting of a "Top 5" instead of a "Top 50."

Brackets Divided by Level for each subsequent "Range," consisting of 4 brackets.

Instead of 230 tokens coming into the game at a time, decrease or increase the number to allocate the different brackets. Since I'm using the bracket model above, I would decrease the number from 230, to 200.

200 Tokens into the game per reset, divided into 4 different brackets would mean 50 tokens coming into the game per bracket.


~~Top 5~~
Each person finishing in the top of their brackets get's tokens following the model:
1 = 18
2 = 14
3 = 10
4 = 6
5 = 2
6-10 = 1


~~Obtaining PvP Rating~~
From the Bounty Board:
If HCS were to take the route of dividing the PvP Ladder into brackets, instead of removing rating transfer completely from the board, make it so you can ONLY obtain rating from those players within your bracket. A player may still complete any other bounty from another bracket for the bounty reward, but the only losses would be gold and experience. For bounty hits, 1 PvP Rating point transfer per attack would be sufficient, yielding a 10 point overall transfer by the end of the bounty.
Note: PvP Rating should ONLY be transferred after the bounty is completed.
Note 2: Clearing bounties with 100 stamina attacks would yield a 10 point per hit transfer, ultimately adding up to a net total of 100 rating if a person clears with all 100 stamina hits.
Note 3: These numbers do NOT take into account the effects of Gloat, nor Honor.
Note 4: These numbers are based on the base 1000 PvP Rating.


Regular Attacks: 10 Stamina attacks would yield a 5 Rating per hit transfer, while a 100 Stamina attack would yield a 50 Rating per hit transfer. Any stamina attack between would be set up using a Step Function rule, would round DOWN, instead of up. For example: 10 Stamina=5 Rating Transfer; 20 Stamina=10 Rating Transfer; 30 Stamina=15 Rating Transfer; and so on, while 17 Stamina=8 Rating Transfer; 64 Stamina=32 Rating Transfer, and so on.
Note: These numbers do NOT take into account the effects of Gloat, nor Honor.
Note 2: These numbers are based on the base 1000 PvP Rating.



~~Dominance Medal~~
As suggested by many people, each person at the top of their respected brackets would obtain a percentage towards their completion of the Dominance Medal.


~~Brackets~~
20-100; 101-300; 301-600; 601+


~~Mediation~~
Since the extremist levelers don't want an increase in PvP Range, but the extremist PvPers do want an increase in the PvP Range, all PvP Ranges will stay the same for the time being.
Another thing that has been up for debate is the allotted time in which a person can be attacked for rating. Some people scream that 24 hours is too long, and propose a 6-8 hour limit. Those who enjoy the 24 hour limit scream that the 6-8 hour limit would be too short. In essence, you can't satisfy everybody, so cut the 24 in half and have a 12 hour interval for attacking.


~~Feedback~~
The feedback I've received from some of the more “named” players in the game, both levelers AND PvPers. Some people want a system where any lower level can get rating from a higher level, while a higher level would only be limited to a select range of people lower level than him/her. Given the game dynamics and the overall “fairness” of the proposed fixes, this would NOT work at all, so, we are back to the proposition where a player can ONLY gain rating from bounties from people within his/her respected ranges.

Given more feedback, some of the others in the game believe that the payout should be scaled based on the level ranges. Higher level players get a better payout to compensate for the higher cost in PvP Tokens. Once again, a change that will NOT work. Payouts should be fixed, and the 1st place finisher should be paid the same amount across the board.


Summarized feedback from players given in BLUE. All changes made up to this point in RED.

#468 Maehdros

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Posted 10 November 2010 - 16:40

question about your suggestion...at what rating does one become forced to bounty hunt? Ie: when can one no longer gain from someone with in your new system,off the board?

As of now..to climb the ladder most have to hit those with rating on the board once they have roughly 1500 rating or so ( unless someone on the ladder is in their VL range)....... and unless the level range is expanded.. the board is still the only way to climb...even more so for players like myself....... not sure if i make sense..but I can hit everyone under the sun up here..and not gain anything lol. Since currently in the 700ish range...4 people i know PvP...a guildmate...and 2 ex guildies in wk, just trying to show that off the board hits need to be tweaked...unless the plan is to "force" players to bounty hunt.

#469 Cat Girl IRL

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Posted 10 November 2010 - 17:07

Fixed rating transfer doesn't do that. It prevents excessive transfer losses from single defeats, but nothing else. Farming on board would still be the best course of action from your numbers, or hitting any non-retaliating person. Whether the target is a seasoned PvPer or a noob doesn't factor into your system. It's a different system with a different set of equally problematic issues.




My suggestion shows dominance in the areas that is possible to show. <---(Skill of the pvper)
Skill of the pvper <---(Anyone can beat almost anyone with the gear and buffs, theres no such think as skill ov pvper.)
My system prevents excessive transfer losses from single defeats? <--- (Yes, and it also prevents excessive transfer gain from single defeats, making the purpose of dominance greater.)

PvP "Farming" on board. If u want to end that theres no other way than remove the rating gain on the board. Others if the player truly is dominant he will minimize the rating loss, by not get defeated by lowlies. You do realize how much far behind the pvp "Farmer" will be to pvper in rating with this system? The farmer picks sure targets, but he cant anymore gain so much rating from his multies or the low level targets that it would be worth the effort against true dominant pvper that is getting double rating from easy targets. The limits and final amounts of rating gotta be tweaked, but my way makes multis profitable no more. Safe low level kills profitable no more. Requires some determination and "SKILL" to get high on the ladder. If the player is high level and spends double the stamina to the "farm" than pvper then he has a chanche of beating him. Within this system there is a weak spot. Where there is really low level players there is superrior amount of targets. And trading hits wont be a problem. Solution to this problem aswell. If the player reaches the pvp ladder there will be 24 Hours time line to attack same person again. Also They cant harves great amount of rating and transfer it all with few hits in a single day, that is prevented like that. Also when player hits 3 person and one hits back, the victim wont collect all the fruits of hard work that the first guy went through.


I do realize what everyones bambering about with the bounty hunting rating farming, but is there reasonable solution? No unless its really removed from the board completely.



(Note that the numbers are just spit on the paper not exact of what I want them to be, just a example.)

#470 celendais

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Posted 11 November 2010 - 09:48

only collect ratings in your levle bracket or above. That way multis are much harder to organize. And no PVP rating for players that have not played 1 month or above a certain level.

And HCS MUST MONITOR THE MULTIS, IT TAKES 10 MINUTES TO SPOT THEM DAMNIT

#471 watagashi

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Posted 11 November 2010 - 18:11

I see the cows made a reply and like many of the ideas, since this thread is now 32 pages long how about a new one with a poll on some of those suggestions and feedback on things you are considering?

And yea i made another thread about the termed players still on ladder but got directed here so yea,,there are termed players on ladder will theyget tokens or be removed so a active and good standing player can have that space?

#472 Maehdros

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Posted 11 November 2010 - 19:16

the implementation of a limit on rating gain from "said" player..whether its so many times daily..daily..or once every 3 days..would be handy..since as is now.. many on the ladder have "friends" helping them climb... its hilarious to watch them get knocked down the ladder...then be backup there a day or two later..lmao.... yes..iam being sarcastic.. its a farce

#473 celendais

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Posted 11 November 2010 - 19:54

its a farse. in low levels its 200 -400 rating exchanged with a 100 stam +gloat . Only deflect and when ladder resets makes the difference. And more and more people -that have good rep in game- are using gloat and blatantly "farming late" as a consequence.

++ and the "fun bountys" : the 1-5 FSP on high level skilled players that fight like tigers are left untaken due to being afraid of rating loss...

#474 aa0007

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 04:32

I think, that as a start to fixing pvp and the ladder, there should be a few rules. This would also help newbies.

1. Any attacks made or received below level 25 are non bountyable, and do not transfer rating, gold, or xp. That means that even if a level 24 player attacks a level 29 player, neither player will lose anything apart from stamina, assuming the level 29 player attacks back.

2. You must be atleast level 25 to be on the ladder, makes sense with rule 1 :D

3. To be on the ladder, you must have atleast 1 month of gameplay under your belt.

#475 RebornJedi

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 12:20

I think, that as a start to fixing pvp and the ladder, there should be a few rules. This would also help newbies.

1. Any attacks made or received below level 25 are non bountyable, and do not transfer rating, gold, or xp. That means that even if a level 24 player attacks a level 29 player, neither player will lose anything apart from stamina, assuming the level 29 player attacks back.

2. You must be atleast level 25 to be on the ladder, makes sense with rule 1 :D

3. To be on the ladder, you must have atleast 1 month of gameplay under your belt.

+1

this will also help lessen the discouragement new players probably feel when they lose 1-10% of their level from one attack and they have no idea how to defend themselves right off the bat.

 


#476 fs_nthnclls

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 12:43

I think, that as a start to fixing pvp and the ladder, there should be a few rules. This would also help newbies.

1. Any attacks made or received below level 25 are non bountyable, and do not transfer rating, gold, or xp. That means that even if a level 24 player attacks a level 29 player, neither player will lose anything apart from stamina, assuming the level 29 player attacks back.

2. You must be atleast level 25 to be on the ladder, makes sense with rule 1 :D

3. To be on the ladder, you must have atleast 1 month of gameplay under your belt.


YES.

#477 fs_regnier7

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 12:48

I think, that as a start to fixing pvp and the ladder, there should be a few rules. This would also help newbies.

1. Any attacks made or received below level 25 are non bountyable, and do not transfer rating, gold, or xp. That means that even if a level 24 player attacks a level 29 player, neither player will lose anything apart from stamina, assuming the level 29 player attacks back.

2. You must be atleast level 25 to be on the ladder, makes sense with rule 1 :D

3. To be on the ladder, you must have atleast 1 month of gameplay under your belt.


YES.

The main issue I see with complete immunity is the piggybank abuse.... free safe place. Keeping gold loss apart of PvP down there is still a vast improvement since it removes most of the incentives to hit someone unless they're silly and get loads of gold or someone really likes pressing the attack button? lol

#478 Khanate

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 14:17

Why no gold and exp losses? No rating makes sense, but removing the other 2 is pointless...

#479 Anemie

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 14:26

Why no gold and exp losses? No rating makes sense, but removing the other 2 is pointless...

I would say "learning period"-we miss that in this game,and actually many players give up at the start because they don't know what to do...
In that period they should only be able to lose and take gold from PvP-And some game provided tips on how to play would be useful...
But that's just my opinion-

#480 Khanate

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 15:22

Maybe time-based for exp and gold protection, but certainly not level-based.


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