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Suggestion: PvP Ladder Changes (v2)


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Poll: Which of the options above do you feel would help improve the PvP Ladder? (359 member(s) have cast votes)

Which of the options above do you feel would help improve the PvP Ladder?

  1. Voted Remove PvP Rating transfer from the Bounty Board. (73 votes [20.33%])

    Percentage of vote: 20.33%

  2. Voted Limit transfer from an individual player to once every 24 hours (this should help prevent organised ratings transfers). (126 votes [35.10%])

    Percentage of vote: 35.10%

  3. Voted Bonus to PvP Rating Transfer for 100 stamina attacks. (134 votes [37.33%])

    Percentage of vote: 37.33%

  4. Voted No changes (26 votes [7.24%])

    Percentage of vote: 7.24%

Vote

#121 Khanate

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 03:35


100 can attack upward to 125, but downward to 90 and still get rating.
200 can attack upward to 250, but downward to 180 and still get rating.
300 can attack upward to 375, but downward to 270 and still get rating.
400 can attack upward to 500, but downward to 360 and still get rating.
500 can attack upward to 625, but downward to 450 and still get rating.
600 can attack upward to 750, but downward to 540 and still get rating.
700 can attack upward to 875, but downward to 630 and still get rating.
800 can attack upward to 1000, but downward to 720 and still get rating.
900 can attack upward to 1125, but downward to 810 and still get rating.
1000 can attack upward to 1250, but downward to 900 and still get rating.

I figure this way, it's more of a reasonable range for getting rating. Therefore, with these approximate ranges, sets could actually compete against each other.


This, will not work in many ways. One of them being that it's majorly flawed.

Let's say I am level 600, so I can attack someone that is 750 and steal their rating, but they cannot hit me back 'cause I am 30 levels lower than what they can reach? Doesn't sound very fair to me.


This was meant for rating transfer ON the board 8)


If someone can take rating from you, you should be able to take it back if he gets on the board.

Furthermore those are really small ranges. A 35 level range at level 100? That is awfully constraining.

The goal is to simply not have joke fights like 500 against level 25 or 1000 against 100. There will always be advantages, the goal is not to only allow fights on an equal footing to have an effect on rating, it's to obtain a system that works.

#122 evilbry

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 03:37

Why can't pvp rating transfer be awarded upon successful completion of a bounty, like the offered reward? The awarded amount would be some formula based on the clearer and targets rating, while taking into account the level difference somehow. This would eliminate late farmers, and encourage more hitters (since the bb was originally a form of punishment).

What we have to be careful of is not removing realms of punishment.

example, level 800+ player has farmed/traded/whatever off the wrong person, who organises a delevel party. A friend of said 800+ player could potentially then clear faster than those in the delvel party thus limiting the damage.

XP would be lost sure, but removing copious amounts of rating from someone caught with their hand a bit deeper in the cookie jar than they should is an option that should still be available.


I do support the idea of rating only going to the person who completed the bounty. Simply thinking of ways it could be used against intents and purposes.

*edit* fixed some typos lol

#123 fs_avalbane

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 03:43

If someone can take rating from you, you should be able to take it back if he gets on the board.

Furthermore those are really small ranges. A 35 level range at level 100? That is awfully constraining.

The goal is to simply not have joke fights like 500 against level 25 or 1000 against 100. There will always be advantages, the goal is not to only allow fights on an equal footing to have an effect on rating, it's to obtain a system that works.


I see what you're saying, but using percentages for trying to find a decent range (as what most people do) is a little skewed as it is. Instead of percentages, why not use a uniform range? I don't know the set amount that would be the best for everyone, but something could be "discovered."


I do support the idea of rating only going to the person who completed the bounty. Simply thinking of ways it could be used against intents and purposes.


Agreed. Rating gained on individual hits is a bad way to go anyway.



EDIT: You complain about my given proposition because the ranges don't overlap and won't allow "Person A" who is level 750 to hit "Person B" who is level 500" for rating on the board, yet people are searching for a "fix" that will allow fair ranges to fix the 1000 vs 25 rating transfer. The question is though, if you fix it so a level 1000 can't take rating from the 25, would you also make it that a 25 can't take rating from 1000? Shouldn't that accomplishment be rewarded with something?

#124 evilbry

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 04:04

What about if rating from less than 100 stam hits are only given to the winning bounty hunter, while any 100 stam hit on the bounty board would take rating (as well as XP, gold and dignity).

#125 fs_sigmundr

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 04:06

PvP should be an accurate representation of how skilled you are at attacking other warriors within your range. I don't think bounty hunters should be penalized or rewarded, and by that I feel that instead of getting rid of Bounty Hunting PvP Transfer, you should instead only gain PvP Rating as a bounty hunter if you are attacking someone in your normal PvP range. I mean, why should it be any different for Bounty Hunters? If a level 10 Bounty Hunter is clearing a level 5 off the Bounty Board, then sure let them transfer PvP rating based off of whoever wins each fight. If a level 1000 Bounty Hunter is clearing a level 90, then the level 1000 should NOT be able to gain ANY PvP from beating the level 90.... BUT... BUT if the level 90 beats the level 1000 Bounty Hunter (somehow... lol) then the level 1000 SHOULD IN FACT LOSE PvP and the level 90 SHOULD GAIN that PvP Rating because a level 1000 should NEVER lose to a level 90.

This would encourage more fighting amongst the proper level ranges and also discourage high levels beating up low levels on the Bounty Board just to farm PvP Rating. I mean, come on guys... how much skill does it take to beat up someone 600 levels lower than you? If you don't know how to beat up the people in your range you are NOT A PvPer.

Yeah, let me repeat that. High level bounty hunter's PvP Rating should be at RISK when clearing a low level from the Bounty Board, but the low level's PvP Rating SHOULD NOT. It's like when I GvG a guild that sucks and I lose, I will lose a tremendous amount of GvG Rating but if I beat them I gain none.

Yeah... let the hating begin. *grins*

#126 fs_imetalusi

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 04:07

What about if rating from less than 100 stam hits are only given to the winning bounty hunter, while any 100 stam hit on the bounty board would take rating (as well as XP, gold and dignity).

What about if rating is only gained if they are in the PvP attack level range. If lets say you where to curb stomp me on the BB you wouldn't earn a drop of PvP 100 stam or not. What say you to that.

#127 celendais

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 04:08

1. remove Gloat and Honor. horrible buffs both of them.

2. No Rating at all until level 25 or until you played game for 1-2 months < might filter some multis away.

3. Imho clearing a bounty or defending on the board online takes much more skill and investments ( some peeps are so proud they zip all the powerpots and turn into monsters lol) than 100 stamming someone not buffed and offline. So this kind of PVP should give rating. Defending= double the ratio. Using cloak= deduction regardless of defense or clearing. edit: attacking off board should give double rating as it more much more risk involved

4 . Level cap on ratings earned on the board. +/- 20% of your own level,maybe less under level 100. Bonus for rating earned v s higher level players ( outside your VL). I e skilled 440 player succesfuly defend against level 800= x3 rating earned automatically. WIthin VL is too low range.

5. At current rate - and horrible long duration of ladder- the PVP tokens are entering game way too slow . Find other ways of them entering into game , a small trickle from more chests ( cant see any ways of using multis to find chests), a small trickle from the temple, a small trickle from reinstating the bounty board lottery. Since most of the pvp-tokens-invented-items are arena strong then heck yes a small trickle from arena too. Make this trickle tradable.

6. If only 100 stams give rating its gonna be hard . In my find player list I never see more than 1-2 people that have rating over 1000, my levels ranges are non-pvp-ers . Also would benefit guilds that take 5 for any 100 stammer , while the occasional pvp-er that is in leveling guilds will not have this deterrent.

#128 fs_imetalusi

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 04:11

PvP should be an accurate representation of how skilled you are at attacking other warriors within your range. I don't think bounty hunters should be penalized or rewarded, and by that I feel that instead of getting rid of Bounty Hunting PvP Transfer, you should instead only gain PvP Rating as a bounty hunter if you are attacking someone in your normal PvP range. I mean, why should it be any different for Bounty Hunters? If a level 10 Bounty Hunter is clearing a level 5 off the Bounty Board, then sure let them transfer PvP rating based off of whoever wins each fight. If a level 1000 Bounty Hunter is clearing a level 90, then the level 1000 should NOT be able to gain ANY PvP from beating the level 90.... BUT... BUT if the level 90 beats the level 1000 Bounty Hunter (somehow... lol) then the level 1000 SHOULD IN FACT LOSE PvP and the level 90 SHOULD GAIN that PvP Rating because a level 1000 should NEVER lose to a level 90.

This would encourage more fighting amongst the proper level ranges and also discourage high levels beating up low levels on the Bounty Board just to farm PvP Rating. I mean, come on guys... how much skill does it take to beat up someone 600 levels lower than you? If you don't know how to beat up the people in your range you are NOT A PvPer.

Yeah, let me repeat that. High level bounty hunter's PvP Rating should be at RISK when clearing a low level from the Bounty Board, but the low level's PvP Rating SHOULD NOT. It's like when I GvG a guild that sucks and I lose, I will lose a tremendous amount of GvG Rating but if I beat them I gain none.

Yeah... let the hating begin. *grins*


lol Nothen but love over here Alex V````V

#129 fs_imetalusi

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 04:16

5. a small trickle from reinstating the bounty board lottery.


yea why is it Those who dominate on the BB get nothing but Glory... its a hard business for those who Bounty Hunt... I think they should be rewarded maybe even tokens...

other aps I play have top weekly's for kills*Bounty Hunting*

#130 fs_gravely

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 04:33

All the suggestions so far have been bad.

Here's how the ladder SHOULD work.

At the very least, it should be impossible to remove 250 rating in one off the board hit with gloat active. That's too small a sample size for the amount of effort that gaining 250 rating legitimately requires.

At the same time, transfer between players should never occur more than once either direction every 24 hour period to prevent people from farming those who are on the ladder while they're offline and defenseless, or via trading agreements.

ADDITIONALLY, if you take 300 rating from me, I should have the opportunity to get ALL of it back. Right now, if you have 400 less rating than I do, and you smack me for 200+, when I hit you back I'll be lucky to get 100. The game needs to cache that information to allow players who actually care about their rating to have some infinitesmal chance of retaining it.

Also, the penalties for up and down transfer are fine on the board, to be quite honest. They are the least of the ladder's problems at this time. Perhaps honor needs to be available as a global buff - not just a level 800 player skill - but gloat, in all forms, needs to go. Now.

In short, limit transfer, make it possible to regain lost rating from random off the board hits, and kill gloat dead.

And when people get caught conspiring or multis, ban them from the ladder. If you get caught, even coincidentally, to be involved with trading rings or multi accounts or anything questionable, make them automatically lose all rating and not be able to ladder climb for 3 to 4 resets. That will stop a lot of this right quickly, and you cows won't have to lose your revenue streams :P

#131 fs_imetalusi

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 04:43

All the suggestions so far have been bad.

Here's how the ladder SHOULD work.

At the very least, it should be impossible to remove 250 rating in one off the board hit with gloat active. That's too small a sample size for the amount of effort that gaining 250 rating legitimately requires.

At the same time, transfer between players should never occur more than once either direction every 24 hour period to prevent people from farming those who are on the ladder while they're offline and defenseless, or via trading agreements.

ADDITIONALLY, if you take 300 rating from me, I should have the opportunity to get ALL of it back. Right now, if you have 400 less rating than I do, and you smack me for 200+, when I hit you back I'll be lucky to get 100. The game needs to cache that information to allow players who actually care about their rating to have some infinitesmal chance of retaining it.

Also, the penalties for up and down transfer are fine on the board, to be quite honest. They are the least of the ladder's problems at this time. Perhaps honor needs to be available as a global buff - not just a level 800 player skill - but gloat, in all forms, needs to go. Now.

In short, limit transfer, make it possible to regain lost rating from random off the board hits, and kill gloat dead.

And when people get caught conspiring or multis, ban them from the ladder. If you get caught, even coincidentally, to be involved with trading rings or multi accounts or anything questionable, make them automatically lose all rating and not be able to ladder climb for 3 to 4 resets. That will stop a lot of this right quickly, and you cows won't have to lose your revenue streams :P



Grave.. let me get this straight bro.. you think the BB is fine with up and down the board transfers *they are the worse of the ladders problems* ... and that PVP Players should only be able to attack each other for rating every 24 hours? that would kill PvP.

#132 celendais

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 04:48

why ban only from ladder? using multis= get termed , no?

#133 tikidreq

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 04:55

please don't remove the bounty board pvp rating gain....

#134 fs_imetalusi

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 04:59

please don't remove the bounty board pvp rating gain....


please do lol unless its in the PvP attack range... or just kill the PvP ladder and make it the BH ladder REDUX

#135 LordOfRuin

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 05:16

@Gravely:

Let me get this straight.

You are suggesting that Multi's should *not* be terminated? As in permanently?

Why would you want that I wonder?

And you claim all the OTHER suggestions are bad...

#136 aa0007

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 05:19

And when people get caught conspiring or multis, ban them from the ladder. If you get caught, even coincidentally, to be involved with trading rings or multi accounts or anything questionable, make them automatically lose all rating and not be able to ladder climb for 3 to 4 resets. That will stop a lot of this right quickly, and you cows won't have to lose your revenue streams :P



#137 fs_crestmage

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 05:20

I know PvP is apart of the game but when did it lose the other aspects of the game? What happened to the RPG part of exploring and leveling or working on other things then just being a nuisance to other players, Many of those who PvP harass and taunt trying to blackmail and force you to hit them back annoying you. Their excuse it is a PVP game. All you hear about is this is a PvP game and last i checked there is so much more then PvP to this game. Trust me if it was a solely PvP game most of the people playing would not be playing. Think you are putting to much effort into the PvP part ignoring the rest of the game and players. Tons of new sets but where are any of them fit for actually hunting of monsters giving you more damage per say so you can more easily one hit a monster? They are all PvP sets so you can more easily one hit another player. YAY! your making those who just like to beat and get a thrill out of hitting people enjoy the game. Making others not enjoy the game. Strike a balance in your efforts.



Remove PvP Rating transfer from the Bounty Board. <--Why remove it? Bounty board is a punishment. You get rewards from attacking so you should have penalties for punishment as well not make them free from any persecution what so ever. Many only use the bounty board to get PvP transfer leaving those alone who do not wish to PvP ,


Limit transfer from an individual player to once every 24 hours (this should help prevent organised ratings transfers) <-- Semi good idea and semi bad idea, A person only gives off PvP once a day so he is protected from losing any PvP all day after one hit. So he hits a good 50+ player taking their Rating or more and where does that leave any one else to get ratings from?


Bonus to PvP Rating Transfer for 100 stamina attacks <-- that has to be the dumbest idea of them all. You already have to many simpletons giving out 100 stam hits just to have a chance to steal 20k gold. What is the purpose for a 100 stam to steal that chicken scratch? Don't need more reasons for people to 100 stam each other.

#138 Cat Girl IRL

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 05:28

If you cut the rating loss from bounty board, those who will solely hit others for rating will lose their threat mostly. But if the player gets meanie and hits back with 100 stamina and gloat with lot lower rating then again the loss is maximal. The pvp rating should tell us if the player is good pvper or not, but at the moment it only tells whos going through bounties without being countered.

#139 matt2269f

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 05:30

i think removing the pvp transfer from the bb is a terrible idea maybe limit it / but if u remove it then the pvp'rs can attack whoever with no fear of losing their ratings by being bountied / as it is now the bb is feared cuz u will lose ur rating / what u should do is make it a standard amount transferred for each attack / that way to climb the ladder u will need to hit more people instead of just hitting those with a high rating

#140 celendais

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 05:31

award rating only for completion of bounty. Will scare away farmers, latecomers. Reward fast and skilled bountyhunters.

Gloat+100 stam off the board is way too powerful. I can see no reason for gloat buff at all.


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