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Suggestion: PvP Ladder Changes (v2)


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Poll: Which of the options above do you feel would help improve the PvP Ladder? (359 member(s) have cast votes)

Which of the options above do you feel would help improve the PvP Ladder?

  1. Voted Remove PvP Rating transfer from the Bounty Board. (73 votes [20.33%])

    Percentage of vote: 20.33%

  2. Voted Limit transfer from an individual player to once every 24 hours (this should help prevent organised ratings transfers). (126 votes [35.10%])

    Percentage of vote: 35.10%

  3. Voted Bonus to PvP Rating Transfer for 100 stamina attacks. (134 votes [37.33%])

    Percentage of vote: 37.33%

  4. Voted No changes (26 votes [7.24%])

    Percentage of vote: 7.24%

Vote

#141 fs_gravely

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 05:32

@Gravely:

Let me get this straight.

You are suggesting that Multi's should not be terminated. As in permanently?

Why would you want that I wonder?

And you claim all the OTHER suggestions are bad...


I don't want it. I simply know of players who have used multis or been associated with multis that have NOT been terminated.

Ergo, one assumes the Cows prefer to keep those who fork out the cold hard cash around.

Ergo, a partial ban - IE from the ladder, similar to a forum ban - would at least prevent those players who believe a blank check solves all problems from peeing in the pool the rest of us swim in.

#142 fs_gravely

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 05:34

Grave.. let me get this straight bro.. you think the BB is fine with up and down the board transfers *they are the worse of the ladders problems* ... and that PVP Players should only be able to attack each other for rating every 24 hours? that would kill PvP.


Well, met, considering that as a level 550+ player, I get 10 rating from you from a 10 hit clear, that doesn't seem exactly painful, does it? Yes, you get beat. If you get beat, you deserve to lose rating. Not as much as if a level 200 beat you, but the ladder is supposed to reflect top dog, so there you have it.

As for rating attacks per 24 hours, why exactly would that kill PvP?

I have NEVER hit ANYONE solely for their rating....and so many others that I am friends with can say the same. It might kill the ladder farmers, but that's the point.

#143 Leos3000

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 05:42

please don't remove the bounty board pvp rating gain....


please do lol unless its in the PvP attack range... or just kill the PvP ladder and make it the BH ladder REDUX


Bud ur 2 obsessed with having the ladder only transfer points with people in your pvp range, this may be an ideal solution for you, but is unfair to a lot of the FS population.

Granted I see no domination in attacking people who have less then a 1% chance of ever beating you like a level 1000 vs someone below level 100. but just to give you an example of how skewed pvp is at higher levels. I have not taken any bounties other then 1 where the player was with in 50 levels of me anyway, hit every single person in range over the last few weeks and for the 1st time the other day finally even made it on the ladder.

I play this game for challenges and finding unique ways to get stuff done.

The 1 thing I have to laugh at is the envy/"called cheating" that other players get when friends work together in this game to achieve common goals. I hate to tell you guys, but its a lot easier to get things done when you work with friends/allies instead of the so called integrity of doing everything on your own. I really want to see someone buy enough gold on their own to pass xoulou right now.

and yes its SOOOO bad to help a friend get a higher rating :shock:

#144 fs_imetalusi

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 05:43

i think removing the pvp transfer from the bb is a terrible idea maybe limit it / but if u remove it then the pvp'rs can attack whoever with no fear of losing their ratings by being bountied / as it is now the bb is feared cuz u will lose ur rating / what u should do is make it a standard amount transferred for each attack / that way to climb the ladder u will need to hit more people instead of just hitting those with a high rating



matt lol I love ya bro.. BUT... that's is simply not true... *as it is now the BB is feared cuz u will lose rating* its not feared its a fact.. it actually incurrages hourly PvP Farming against those who bounty PvP attacks Especially those with a PvP rating *who are not PvP players* lol gotta love those POS.. I have a few at my level... they just lurk on the BB and look for easy targets like real PvP players a hundred levels down... I.E. Bounty Hunting Farmers.... at that point it becomes the BB PvP rating exchange... for those who MOSTLY who do not Earn It. Try the Ladder sometime and learn the hard way.

#145 fs_imetalusi

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 05:45

please don't remove the bounty board pvp rating gain....


please do lol unless its in the PvP attack range... or just kill the PvP ladder and make it the BH ladder REDUX


Bud ur 2 obsessed with having the ladder only transfer points with people in your pvp range, this may be an ideal solution for you, but is unfair to a lot of the FS population.

Granted I see no domination in attacking people who have less then a 1% chance of ever beating you like a level 1000 vs someone below level 100. but just to give you an example of how skewed pvp is at higher levels. I have not taken any bounties other then 1 where the player was with in 50 levels of me anyway, hit every single person in range over the last few weeks and for the 1st time the other day finally even made it on the ladder.

I play this game for challenges and finding unique ways to get stuff done.

The 1 thing I have to laugh at is the envy/"called cheating" that other players get when friends work together in this game to achieve common goals. I hate to tell you guys, but its a lot easier to get things done when you work with friends/allies instead of the so called integrity of doing everything on your own. I really want to see someone buy enough gold on their own to pass xoulou right now.

and yes its SOOOO bad to help a friend get a higher rating :shock:


Lmao! Leo! I see what your saying! But would you agree to a PvP Ladder with a level Range?

#146 fs_gravely

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 05:48

The 1 thing I have to laugh at is the envy/"called cheating" that other players get when friends work together in this game to achieve common goals. I hate to tell you guys, but its a lot easier to get things done when you work with friends/allies instead of the so called integrity of doing everything on your own. I really want to see someone buy enough gold on their own to pass xoulou right now.


Who cares about the gold hoarder medal. It's just a medal, which is exactly what dominance used to be.

None of you or your friends gave a rip about pvp rating until it was possible to make hundreds of thousands of FSP off it, and now you have the balls to claim that it's perfectly okay to conspire to abuse the system, because other people do it?

You should stick to leveling.

and yes its SOOOO bad to help a friend get a higher rating :shock:


Considering that given access to halfway comparable gear and the ability to hit you and your guildmates, I can name at least 100 people who deserve to be ahead of you, and the rest of the members of your guild that are on the ladder, yes, that is pretty fail. Everytime one of you EOC pvp lites get on top of the rankings, it makes an even bigger joke out of this failure of a system.

Harsh? Yes.

True? Definitely.

#147 LordOfRuin

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 05:49

@Gravely:

Let me get this straight.

You are suggesting that Multi's should not be terminated. As in permanently?

Why would you want that I wonder?

And you claim all the OTHER suggestions are bad...


I don't want it. I simply know of players who have used multis or been associated with multis that have NOT been terminated.

Ergo, one assumes the Cows prefer to keep those who fork out the cold hard cash around.

Ergo, a partial ban - IE from the ladder, similar to a forum ban - would at least prevent those players who believe a blank check solves all problems from peeing in the pool the rest of us swim in.


I take your point but the way I see it is this:

If the potential punishment of getting caught is reduced to temporary exclusion from a single part of the game, that is an invitation for all and sundry to start opening multiple accounts. Those with time and money win more. Those who don't lose more. This game is already skewed enough to ppl with lots of money and time (something that is not very easily corrected - for once I point *not* my finger at the Cows) - if multiple accounts are made less risky that is tantamount to handing them a win button. A LOT of ppl would stop playing. Reducing revenue streams in the long run as 1- fewer players means fewer donators, 2 - once all the players who don't like the new situation have got fed up and left the mutlis etc will have only themselves to play with (pun intended) and I doubt that would be much fun for them.

#148 Leos3000

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 05:51

[quote name="IMetalusI"][quote name="leos3000"]
please do lol unless its in the PvP attack range... or just kill the PvP ladder and make it the BH ladder REDUX[/quote]

Bud ur 2 obsessed with having the ladder only transfer points with people in your pvp range, this may be an ideal solution for you, but is unfair to a lot of the FS population.

Granted I see no domination in attacking people who have less then a 1% chance of ever beating you like a level 1000 vs someone below level 100. but just to give you an example of how skewed pvp is at higher levels. I have not taken any bounties other then 1 where the player was with in 50 levels of me anyway, hit every single person in range over the last few weeks and for the 1st time the other day finally even made it on the ladder.

I play this game for challenges and finding unique ways to get stuff done.

The 1 thing I have to laugh at is the envy/"called cheating" that other players get when friends work together in this game to achieve common goals. I hate to tell you guys, but its a lot easier to get things done when you work with friends/allies instead of the so called integrity of doing everything on your own. I really want to see someone buy enough gold on their own to pass xoulou right now.

and yes its SOOOO bad to help a friend get a higher rating :shock:[/quote]

Lmao! Leo! I see what your saying! But would you agree to a PvP Ladder with a level Range?[/quote]

Sure why not, then at the reset each range can throw on their best level 25 arena suit buff up and fight it out to see who is really dominate lol

#149 fs_gravely

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 05:51

I take your point but the way I see it is this:

If the potential punishment of getting caught is reduced to temporary exclusion from a single part of the game, that is an invitation for all and sundry to start opening multiple accounts. Those with time and money win more. Those who don't lose more. This game is already skewed enough to ppl with lots of money and time (something that is not very easily corrected - for once I point *not* my finger at the Cows) - if multiple accounts are made less risky that is tantamount to handing them a win button. A LOT of ppl would stop playing. Reducing revenue streams in the long run as 1- fewer players means fewer donators, 2 - once all the players who don't like the new situation have got fed up and left the mutlis etc will have only themselves to play with (pun intended) and I doubt that would be much fun for them.


Whoa, hoss.

Back up the truck.

I'm not wanting them to stop banning people for using multis.

I just know that for some rhyme or reason, they have chosen not to ban certain players. At the very least, those players shouldn't be eligible to climb the ladder. That is all I am saying, period.

#150 LordOfRuin

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 05:55

I take your point but the way I see it is this:

If the potential punishment of getting caught is reduced to temporary exclusion from a single part of the game, that is an invitation for all and sundry to start opening multiple accounts. Those with time and money win more. Those who don't lose more. This game is already skewed enough to ppl with lots of money and time (something that is not very easily corrected - for once I point *not* my finger at the Cows) - if multiple accounts are made less risky that is tantamount to handing them a win button. A LOT of ppl would stop playing. Reducing revenue streams in the long run as 1- fewer players means fewer donators, 2 - once all the players who don't like the new situation have got fed up and left the mutlis etc will have only themselves to play with (pun intended) and I doubt that would be much fun for them.


Whoa, hoss.

Back up the truck.

I'm not wanting them to stop banning people for using multis.

I just know that for some rhyme or reason, they have chosen not to ban certain players. At the very least, those players shouldn't be eligible to climb the ladder. That is all I am saying, period.


Fair enough - it would be nice if there was a better way of detecting and banning ALL multis... Better chance of finding rocking horse pooh though.

#151 Leos3000

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 05:56

The 1 thing I have to laugh at is the envy/"called cheating" that other players get when friends work together in this game to achieve common goals. I hate to tell you guys, but its a lot easier to get things done when you work with friends/allies instead of the so called integrity of doing everything on your own. I really want to see someone buy enough gold on their own to pass xoulou right now.


Who cares about the gold hoarder medal. It's just a medal, which is exactly what dominance used to be. was an example

None of you or your friends gave a rip about pvp rating until it was possible to make hundreds of thousands of FSP off it, and now you have the balls to claim that it's perfectly okay to conspire to abuse the system, because other people do it?

we were pvping before the rewards came out

You should stick to leveling.
I hate leveling and probably do it less then you do, only 4 times this year so know what your talking about before u blindly say something

and yes its SOOOO bad to help a friend get a higher rating :shock:


Considering that given access to halfway comparable gear and the ability to hit you and your guildmates, I can name at least 100 people who deserve to be ahead of you, and the rest of the members of your guild that are on the ladder, yes, that is pretty fail. Everytime one of you EOC pvp lites get on top of the rankings, it makes an even bigger joke out of this failure of a system.

Harsh? Yes.

True? Definitely.

LMAO Grave you have no idea about my abilities especially with pvp and gear so please refrain from ur lude comments



#152 fs_imetalusi

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 05:56

Grave.. let me get this straight bro.. you think the BB is fine with up and down the board transfers *they are the worse of the ladders problems* ... and that PVP Players should only be able to attack each other for rating every 24 hours? that would kill PvP.


Well, met, considering that as a level 550+ player, I get 10 rating from you from a 10 hit clear, that doesn't seem exactly painful, does it? Yes, you get beat. If you get beat, you deserve to lose rating. Not as much as if a level 200 beat you, but the ladder is supposed to reflect top dog, so there you have it.

As for rating attacks per 24 hours, why exactly would that kill PvP?

I have NEVER hit ANYONE solely for their rating....and so many others that I am friends with can say the same. It might kill the ladder farmers, but that's the point.


Then if you could only PvP every hour? What would be the point? what would that do for the BB? You realize there are players who spend thousands a day on stam just to PvP other PvP players... Grave you don't see the 24 logic bro? And The BB... I get that we should get something for winning a battle while Bounty Hunting... but to me it shouldn't be PvP as it wasn't earned *for big level differences* ... would you agree that a New Ladder that Reflected Just PvP for Level Ranges would be a better reflection of actual PvP?

make it like Top 50 as it is now but every 50 levels man I dont know lol gotta be better than the BH Ladder we have now

#153 fs_gravely

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 06:02

was an example


It was a bad one.

we were pvping before the rewards came out


For like a month?

I hate leveling and probably do it less then you do, only 4 times this year so know what your talking about before u blindly say something


Hm. You're level 1000, I'm level 550. If you hated leveling that much, well, yea.

and yes its SOOOO bad to help a friend get a higher rating :shock:


Considering that given access to halfway comparable gear and the ability to hit you and your guildmates, I can name at least 100 people who deserve to be ahead of you, and the rest of the members of your guild that are on the ladder, yes, that is pretty fail. Everytime one of you EOC pvp lites get on top of the rankings, it makes an even bigger joke out of this failure of a system.

Harsh? Yes.

True? Definitely.


LMAO Grave you have no idea about my abilities especially with pvp and gear so please refrain from ur lude comments


I don't, huh?

Well, see. Yea.

Most players with any pvp skill whatsoever don't think of themselves as needing to strip naked and hand their friends a handicap in order to 'be the best' at PvP.

If you're any good at all, then why do you and your friends feel the need to engage in such behavior?

It's rude. You're absolutely right.

But you willingly engage in breaking the system.

How is that not so much more rude to anyone who attempts to play the system fairly? Might as well just stick it in your bio that no one else should try, because you and players who are like you will engage in any activity necessary to win.

I thought long and hard before I posted anything like that - you just don't realize just how much you totally irritated the vast majority of the PvP community with behavior like what's gone on over the past few weeks.

#154 fs_gravely

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 06:09

Then if you could only PvP every hour? What would be the point? what would that do for the BB?


Please explain why only being able to gain or lose rating once per 24 hour period between myself and a given player in any way inhibits me from gold thefts, hourly hits, bounty activity, or any other facet of normal pvp.


You realize there are players who spend thousands a day on stam just to PvP other PvP players...


Uh....I'm one of them! :lol:

And The BB... I get that we should get something for winning a battle while Bounty Hunting... but to me it shouldn't be PvP as it wasn't earned *for big level differences* ... would you agree that a New Ladder that Reflected Just PvP for Level Ranges would be a better reflection of actual PvP?


The problem is, that idea works great - in theory. As has already been explained by many players, after you go above level 300-400, there simply are FAR fewer eligible targets to dance with, met, and you would utterly hamstring the ability of anyone to do anything in such a system that wasn't in the bigger level ranges.

#155 fs_imetalusi

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 06:25

Grave, Because fighting battles every hour is FUN!! LMAO! and you should gain a reward for that, I have been fighting one player for 3 dayz straight!! so far I have stayed buffed for 14 hours lol and have been defending like a dog lol simply put the rating I have earned is well deserved! He did get me for 600 PvP in 9 hours lol and that is all good and part of the fun and the challenge it what I think PvP is all about. Its the challenge of dominating a level range. V```V

Setting the Limit to 24hrs to prevent transfers of PvP Rating will not work, matter of fact it will help I can explain via PM.

Ok Grave on your next point, so you have 2 Targets at level 2000 Who is the Top PvP player at that level. Period. I don't care how many players they have to target lol simply because its the only way to make it fair and worthy of reward IMO... its the lower levels who will have to battle it out for the dominance of that level lol if they do that I'll be glad I'm not level 100 lol

I've said my peace in this Thread... till the Ladder Reflects, Player Verses Player as its defined by your attack range... God Bless those who Donate PvP Rating... as at least those targets cant be farmed via the BB but Only through PvP.

#156 OTL

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 06:34

I completely agree that remove the Rating from the board because it is not Bounty Board Ladder.. IT IS PVP LADDER

#157 fs_gravely

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 06:36

So, you work hard for your rating.

You think the level 1000 player should have a reward equal to yours, if only one or two other players in his or her range are even interested in PVP?

The amount of effort that would be required would be vastly different. Either once again, high level players would have a massive advantage in that they would be far less vulnerable than someone like you, or they wouldn't have any ability to access the same level of reward you do. It cannot work as a pure level system.

As for the 3 days straight battle, that's a great example of pvp at work.

So, true or false: Are members of your guild currently engaged in trading rating for this ladder?

If true, why do you espouse both a hardcore pvp mindset and allow that sort of behavior?

If false, we'll talk via PM.

#158 fs_gravely

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 06:38

I completely agree that remove the Rating from the board because it is not Bounty Board Ladder.. IT IS PVP LADDER


Last time I checked, you can take everything you can take in pvp on the board. You can also be bountied. And some of the best possible PvP encounters exist on the board, not hitting undefended offline targets.

Claiming that hitting players on the bounty board "is not" PvP is a gross misunderstanding.

The problem arises when high level players only accept bounties that are risk free in terms of both unloseable hits and agreements not to counter.

#159 KitiaraLi

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 06:40

uhm.... so we're going at this again.. well allright, let's dance then.

Removing rating from the board is the same as saying bounty hunting isn't PvP. Sorry, but it is. I spent quite a bit of time one this issue since the cows sadly and unintentionally broke the PvP system, and changed it into a profit system - mainly because I am one of those, who will easily be mistaken for a rating farmer. In my book, the solution s not to remove rating transfers from the board, the solution lies in HOW you get the rating.. and it is a simple one.

First keep the level penalty. The further away a target is lvl wise, the less rating should be taken. Target is more than x lvls away from you, you cannot gain more than 1 point per kill. BUT - you can only gain rating via 100 stam hits, nomatter the lvl difference!
The same should be implemented off the board as well - only 100 stams count! Those who prefer to 10 stam already get a little extra (Prestige).

This should to some degree prevent the worst abuse and alotta the rating feeding we have seen as of late, with ppl going nekkid and hitting their friends to move their rating towards 'em etc.

Either keep the lower lvls (the multis range) outta the rating system, or brake it up into ranges as suggested by so many others. Before doing so, do confer with a bunch of regular PvPers though, since the major gear hotspots are not each 100 lvl (as in a lvl 850 has by far better gear than a lvl 840).

Someone suggested in the past, and now again, that the higher the lvl - the larger your PvP range should be, to prevent the high lvls to run outta targets. Again the answer, to me, is simple. Having the ladder broken into ranges, you can hit everyone within that range nomatter the lvl. Having a range called for instance 136-210 means that anyone within this level range, can hit each other .. for rating!
Normal gold/xp hits should stay as is.

This would make it damned hard for the abusers/cheaters to get away with it, since there would be another PvPer or 2 within the range, who would gladly hit you for what you gained unfairly.

This also cuts out the 24hour cool down period - no need for that with the above implemented.

I also kinda think you're missing a vote option; Get rid of Gloat/Honor - or at least alter 'em greatly. The penalty for using either is simply not big enough, and the difference in what you gain from a gloat hit versus how much you keep with honor is just silly.. the gloater has all the advantages.

No one can deny that we changed this game and influenced it in such a way that NO ONE could compete with us.. so much so that they changed the rules. ~Abhorrence, chosen founder of Cerulean Sins


#160 fs_gravely

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 06:42

<3, kiti.

Your turn to try and beat some sense into this thread. I'm going to bed.


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