Jump to content

Photo

PvP Ladder - Level Brackets (Continued)


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
279 replies to this topic

#1 Hoofmaster

Hoofmaster

    Company Director

  • Administrators
  • PipPipPip
  • 8,357 posts
  • Badge
  • United Kingdom

Posted 19 November 2010 - 21:42

So... my main issues/questions/thoughts so far in regards to the PvP Ladder Brackets...

PvP Level Ranges

We've established that the ladder can be split into brackets, and overall this seems to be a popular idea. The question is, do we:

A) Open up PvP so any player can attack any other player, but only allow rating transfer within the bracket range and xp/gold loss within the standard PvP level ranges.

B) Only allow PvP within the bracket range and xp/gold loss within the standard PvP level ranges.

C) Allow players to specify the PvP attack types - ie. if it is for PvP Rating, xp/gold or both. The main idea behind this is more relevant to the bounty board (see the next

section), but would allow players to attack within the standard level ranges for only PvP Rating (ie. not causing xp/gold loss.). Players outwith the standard PvP attack range

would be unable to select the xp/gold loss option.

What to do with the bounty board?

This is a difficult one and could be changed in many different ways, here are my thoughts so far. (Note all the suggestions are assuming the implementation of the PvP Ladder brackets).

A) Remove PvP Rating completely from the bounty board.

B) Only allow PvP Rating transfer from bounty targets within your current bracket.

C) This one depends on the 'PvP attack types' in the previous section. The idea being that the bounties relate to the type of attack. For example if a player attacks another for PvP Rating only, then only PvP Rating can be taken on the Bounty Board.

Other potential issues that need thought

A) How should the players bracket be determined - personally I think it should be determined at the time the PvP Ladder is reset.

B) What should happen when a player increases or decreases their level outwith their current bracket? We can easily prevent them from gaining any rating outwith the bracket, however say they have gained a substantial PvP rating, then moves outwith the bracket, it would be unfair to making them unattackable. Therefore, I think that once the bracket is determined, you can then increase/decrease your level, but you are still classified as being in the bracket. Also I think we should have a list of all the players in your current bracket, ordered by their current PvP Rating.

Please let us know your thoughts on all the above and if you have any other suggestions that you feel will improve the PvP Ladder. Your feedback is important to us! :)

#2 Maehdros

Maehdros

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 4,329 posts
  • Canada

Posted 19 November 2010 - 21:49

Also hoof is the fact if someone attacks a player...with gloat..and gains say 150 rating.. it should also be a similar gain if a player returns fire..aka hits em back... and how about allowing xp/goldloss for anyone in the bracket? Ie: increasing range? then have all hits as bountyable for xp/gold and rating loss

#3 Hoofmaster

Hoofmaster

    Company Director

  • Administrators
  • PipPipPip
  • 8,357 posts
  • Badge
  • United Kingdom

Posted 19 November 2010 - 21:52

Also hoof is the fact if someone attacks a player...with gloat..and gains say 150 rating.. it should also be a similar gain if a player returns fire..aka hits em back... and how about allowing xp/goldloss for anyone in the bracket? Ie: increasing range? then have all hits as bountyable for xp/gold and rating loss


We might look at nerfing the Gloat skill a little :)

#4 Maehdros

Maehdros

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 4,329 posts
  • Canada

Posted 19 November 2010 - 21:54

Also hoof is the fact if someone attacks a player...with gloat..and gains say 150 rating.. it should also be a similar gain if a player returns fire..aka hits em back... and how about allowing xp/goldloss for anyone in the bracket? Ie: increasing range? then have all hits as bountyable for xp/gold and rating loss


We might look at nerfing the Gloat skill a little :)




gloat..yes...nerf..but the fact that someone had say 1700 rating... and gets blindsided offline,losing about 200 ratingfrom 1single hit..sure they can bounty..and take 5... but honestly..it'd be nice to hit back...and gain said rating BACK...not sure if imake sense... but essentially one hitting a few peeps...shouldnt gain someone dominance... but constantly stomping..SHOULD

#5 shdowdrgn

shdowdrgn

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 633 posts

Posted 19 November 2010 - 21:55

i like opening up or extending the attack range Hoof but i disagree with making hits that you choose what to take. it takes a lot of it and opens up more ways to exploit it. also it takes a lot of the *risk* out of it that is a big part of the point of PVP. you hit for gold/xp/rating and then you ether get hit back or posted on the BB and loose gold/xp/and rating.

#6 Anemie

Anemie

    Veteran

  • New Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 633 posts

Posted 19 November 2010 - 21:57

Not just gloat,but 1 time hit back...If someone hits you--you should have option to gain rating back..but you lose the right to bounty that person..


PvP Level Ranges:
(B) surely,even though ©looks interesting enough

What to do with the bounty board?:(B)--Option (A)-would cause a lot of complain after first few days..

#7 shdowdrgn

shdowdrgn

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 633 posts

Posted 19 November 2010 - 21:59

as for someone leveling out of range or something like that i say let em. if someone at the top of my level range hits me and i want to hit them back trust me i WILL whack em back lol as long as you leave it where we can

#8 Maehdros

Maehdros

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 4,329 posts
  • Canada

Posted 19 November 2010 - 22:03

Gravely
How to Fix the Ladder

1. Implement a PvP floor. If you're under level 25 and you haven't been in the game for at least a month, you can't have PvP rating. Period.

2. Level bands of the following: 50-75, 76-99, 100-149, 150-199, 200-250, 251-324, 325-399, 400-499, 500-649, 650-849, 850-1000.

This breaks at the following gears:

Epics face anything up to KAX.

KAX does not have to face fushi.

Fushi does not have to deal with skaldir.

Skaldir and Sekhs don't have to fight demon queen or bahmou.

Mar and the other midrange armor sets aren't paired off versus opticor and dark blade/broken fang.

400 gear et al does not have to face the trident, Spirit Tainted, or the 500 armor gear.

Nuryns, Shu Zi, and Balaurs aren't faced off versus Ormarrs, Machteld, and Marshman.

Agiads doesn't have to compete with Clotilde or other 850 gear.

3. If you appear on the bracket's ladder, you are eligible to be faced off by ANYONE also on the ladder. If you've been targeted and defeated by any individual in the last 24 hours, you have the ability to hit them back to regain your rating. If other players have already taken that rating away, you get a portion of it, to an absolute minimum of 50%. ALL ATTACKS REMAIN BOUNTYABLE. However, no one on the ladder can stam anyone out of their normal pvp range who is NOT on the ladder, and if a player is not present on the ladder they cannot hit anyone on the ladder outside their normal pvp range.

4. All ladders will be reduced to 25 players, as the total number of eligible ladder players would be over 275 at this time.

5. Rating is still lost on the board, at a minimum of 20 rating for 10 hits. If a player bounties someone, they lose the ability to regain any rating they lost. However, if a bounty hunter is within two brackets of you below level 400 or within 3 brackets of you above level 400, rating exchange occurs as it does prior to these updates.



#9 spidey101

spidey101

    Veteran

  • New Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,036 posts

Posted 19 November 2010 - 22:10

PvP Level Ranges

B) Only allow PvP within the bracket range and xp/gold loss within the standard PvP level ranges.

What to do with the bounty board?

B) Only allow PvP Rating transfer from bounty targets within your current bracket.

Other potential issues that need thought

A) How should the players bracket be determined - personally I think it should be determined at the time the PvP Ladder is reset.

B) What should happen when a player increases or decreases their level outwith their current bracket? We can easily prevent them from gaining any rating outwith the bracket, however say they have gained a substantial PvP rating, then moves outwith the bracket, it would be unfair to making them unattackable. Therefore, I think that once the bracket is determined, you can then increase/decrease your level, but you are still classified as being in the bracket. Also I think we should have a list of all the players in your current bracket, ordered by their current PvP Rating.



I agree with both of those.

#10 Yuvy222

Yuvy222

    New Member

  • New Members
  • Pip
  • 16 posts
  • Badge

Posted 19 November 2010 - 22:25

A) Open up PvP so any player can attack any other player, but only allow rating transfer within the bracket range and xp/gold loss within the standard PvP level ranges.

Oh heck yea. Id love to hit Anemie :twisted:

B) Only allow PvP within the bracket range and xp/gold loss within the standard PvP level ranges.

Sounds like a narrower version of A. Both sounds great :mrgreen:

What to do with the bounty board?
A) Remove PvP Rating completely from the bounty board.

B) Only allow PvP Rating transfer from bounty targets within your current bracket.

C) This one depends on the 'PvP attack types' in the previous section. The idea being that the bounties relate to the type of attack. For example if a player attacks another for PvP Rating only, then only PvP Rating can be taken on the Bounty Board.

A) Bounties are still pvp and should still gain some rating
B) A big YES
C) Gonna wait to see what others think about this :|

#11 aa0007

aa0007

    Veteran

  • New Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 4,379 posts
  • United States of America

Posted 19 November 2010 - 22:26

Gravely
How to Fix the Ladder

1. Implement a PvP floor. If you're under level 25 and you haven't been in the game for at least a month, you can't have PvP rating. Period.

2. Level bands of the following: 50-75, 76-99, 100-149, 150-199, 200-250, 251-324, 325-399, 400-499, 500-649, 650-849, 850-1000.

This breaks at the following gears:

Epics face anything up to KAX.

KAX does not have to face fushi.

Fushi does not have to deal with skaldir.

Skaldir and Sekhs don't have to fight demon queen or bahmou.

Mar and the other midrange armor sets aren't paired off versus opticor and dark blade/broken fang.

400 gear et al does not have to face the trident, Spirit Tainted, or the 500 armor gear.

Nuryns, Shu Zi, and Balaurs aren't faced off versus Ormarrs, Machteld, and Marshman.

Agiads doesn't have to compete with Clotilde or other 850 gear.

3. If you appear on the bracket's ladder, you are eligible to be faced off by ANYONE also on the ladder. If you've been targeted and defeated by any individual in the last 24 hours, you have the ability to hit them back to regain your rating. If other players have already taken that rating away, you get a portion of it, to an absolute minimum of 50%. ALL ATTACKS REMAIN BOUNTYABLE. However, no one on the ladder can stam anyone out of their normal pvp range who is NOT on the ladder, and if a player is not present on the ladder they cannot hit anyone on the ladder outside their normal pvp range.

4. All ladders will be reduced to 25 players, as the total number of eligible ladder players would be over 275 at this time.

5. Rating is still lost on the board, at a minimum of 20 rating for 10 hits. If a player bounties someone, they lose the ability to regain any rating they lost. However, if a bounty hunter is within two brackets of you below level 400 or within 3 brackets of you above level 400, rating exchange occurs as it does prior to these updates.


+1

#12 Yuvy222

Yuvy222

    New Member

  • New Members
  • Pip
  • 16 posts
  • Badge

Posted 19 November 2010 - 22:32

+1

Agreed
I really really think this idea would be very effective

#13 Leos3000

Leos3000

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,031 posts

Posted 19 November 2010 - 22:33

So... my main issues/questions/thoughts so far in regards to the PvP Ladder Brackets...

PvP Level Ranges

We've established that the ladder can be split into brackets, and overall this seems to be a popular idea. The question is, do we:

A) Open up PvP so any player can attack any other player, but only allow rating transfer within the bracket range and xp/gold loss within the standard PvP level ranges.

B) Only allow PvP within the bracket range and xp/gold loss within the standard PvP level ranges.

C) Allow players to specify the PvP attack types - ie. if it is for PvP Rating, xp/gold or both. The main idea behind this is more relevant to the bounty board (see the next

section), but would allow players to attack within the standard level ranges for only PvP Rating (ie. not causing xp/gold loss.). Players outwith the standard PvP attack range

would be unable to select the xp/gold loss option.

What to do with the bounty board?

This is a difficult one and could be changed in many different ways, here are my thoughts so far. (Note all the suggestions are assuming the implementation of the PvP Ladder brackets).

A) Remove PvP Rating completely from the bounty board.

B) Only allow PvP Rating transfer from bounty targets within your current bracket.

C) This one depends on the 'PvP attack types' in the previous section. The idea being that the bounties relate to the type of attack. For example if a player attacks another for PvP Rating only, then only PvP Rating can be taken on the Bounty Board.

Other potential issues that need thought

A) How should the players bracket be determined - personally I think it should be determined at the time the PvP Ladder is reset.

B) What should happen when a player increases or decreases their level outwith their current bracket? We can easily prevent them from gaining any rating outwith the bracket, however say they have gained a substantial PvP rating, then moves outwith the bracket, it would be unfair to making them unattackable. Therefore, I think that once the bracket is determined, you can then increase/decrease your level, but you are still classified as being in the bracket. Also I think we should have a list of all the players in your current bracket, ordered by their current PvP Rating.

Please let us know your thoughts on all the above and if you have any other suggestions that you feel will improve the PvP Ladder. Your feedback is important to us! :)


For the 1st section I like option C for overall game play as I think this will bring more people into pvp in general.

which would lead 2 two bounty boards essentially

1. Normal bounty's where everything is at stake
2. A pvp board that has people who are attacking for the challenge of beating another player and not trying to harm their character, i.e gold or xp loss

as far as determination of the bracket, both situations can lead to abuse so there is no winner for this, but would probably be better if what ever level your VL is that is the bracket you are in. (as trying to figure our which braket someone was in at the beginning of each reset who are on the brink of the brackets would be more difficult imo.)

#14 Maehdros

Maehdros

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 4,329 posts
  • Canada

Posted 19 November 2010 - 22:41

level 10...only a level hmmm 15 or lower can hit them....or on the BB a level 20.... now... level 700...690 -710 can take rating... and anyone from 1 - 852 can take rating? oO We need separate ladders..and amin level to participate on a ladder... I like the ideas coming out now,seems we are getting somewhere :)

#15 Leos3000

Leos3000

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,031 posts

Posted 19 November 2010 - 22:43

Also hoof is the fact if someone attacks a player...with gloat..and gains say 150 rating.. it should also be a similar gain if a player returns fire..aka hits em back... and how about allowing xp/goldloss for anyone in the bracket? Ie: increasing range? then have all hits as bountyable for xp/gold and rating loss


We might look at nerfing the Gloat skill a little :)


you wouldnt have to nerf the buff, but if you are able to attack people in your bracket for pvp there should be a little different system on how transfer occur

more of a standard transfer between players whether they had more or less points would be ideal.

A system where if you 10 stam a person (who is with in 500 pvp points of you) you get 10 points

You 100 stam them with a multiplier you get 40 points (gloat and honor can still apply as buffs for some variety)

and since bountys allow more hits they would be a fraction of this

Say 10 stam Bounty hit you get 3 points
100 stam you get 10 points

These amount of points would trasfer the same if you win or lose as well, because essentially if you are able to defend on the board better then the person attacking you you will end up with more points and thus be more dominant.

#16 Hoofmaster

Hoofmaster

    Company Director

  • Administrators
  • PipPipPip
  • 8,357 posts
  • Badge
  • United Kingdom

Posted 19 November 2010 - 22:47

Also hoof is the fact if someone attacks a player...with gloat..and gains say 150 rating.. it should also be a similar gain if a player returns fire..aka hits em back... and how about allowing xp/goldloss for anyone in the bracket? Ie: increasing range? then have all hits as bountyable for xp/gold and rating loss


We might look at nerfing the Gloat skill a little :)


you wouldnt have to nerf the buff, but if you are able to attack people in your bracket for pvp there should be a little different system on how transfer occur

more of a standard transfer between players whether they had more or less points would be ideal.


Set a maximum that can be transferred?

#17 Leos3000

Leos3000

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,031 posts

Posted 19 November 2010 - 22:55

not a maximum, but a standard transfer.

the current system greatly penalizes people who have a high rating compared to a person who has a low rating.

but to keep the rating from hitting the ceiling you can only gain it from people who are with in so many points (500 is the standard right now)

if you hit a person in your bracket who is with in 500 pvp points of what you currently have + or - you should get a set transfer, not 10 if your rating is higher then theirs or 100 because your rating is lower like it currently is.

#18 kingtyrin

kingtyrin

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,700 posts

Posted 19 November 2010 - 22:55

A) Open up PvP so any player can attack any other player, but only allow rating transfer within the bracket range and xp/gold loss within the standard PvP level ranges.

Im still trying to wrap my head around all the options, but if this was to be the path taken, you would have to seriously make spell breaker only work if you win the attack.

If you didnt, hypothetically, (I wouldnt do this, but it would be possible) for me to attack way high levels just to break their buffs for friends of mine to be able to attack easier, which really doesnt seem right. And if I have learned anything from internet gaming, if there is a way within the rule to gain the advantage people will do it. ALOT of people will do it. . . . .
(personally I think SB should work like that anyways)

C) Allow players to specify the PvP attack types - ie. if it is for PvP Rating, xp/gold or both. The main idea behind this is more relevant to the bounty board (see the next

section), but would allow players to attack within the standard level ranges for only PvP Rating (ie. not causing xp/gold loss.). Players outwith the standard PvP attack range

would be unable to select the xp/gold loss option.

If this was the path taken, you may have to reevaluate conserve's role in pvp. . . . perhaps Im thinking too far ahead. Im not sure I like this idea though personally, just doesnt sound like FS pvp to me.


Im with the nerfing gloat crowd, or as I have suggested before, have it hurt your stats so its really something to "Gloat" about being at a disadvantage. All the other buffs names make sense with what they do. Gloat, your just magically enhancing your perceived skill as a pvper without really exhibiting that skill. . . . . .

#19 kalish

kalish

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 360 posts

Posted 19 November 2010 - 22:57

I like LawDog's ladder option; how about this:

1) A player with 0 rating cannot gain (or lose) rating, and a player cannot gain rating from attacking a player with 0 rating.
2) Any player can voluntarily, via the preferences page, set their own rating to 0. At the next ladder reset, it resets to 1000 again. Perhaps you could even include an option to auto-set your own rating to 0 at each ladder reset.

Then you can expand the level range for rating-only PvP hits as far as the PvP community wants to, while allowing those not inclined to compete for the ladder a way to stay out of it.

Not allowing 0 rating players to gain rating makes sure they cannot be used for third-party rating transfers (i.e. losing to a 0 rating player on purpose).

Of course, current off-board PvP hits would continue as normal, with every player (0 rating or not) subject to them.

#20 aa0007

aa0007

    Veteran

  • New Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 4,379 posts
  • United States of America

Posted 19 November 2010 - 22:58

[quote name="Hoofmaster"]
We might look at nerfing the Gloat skill a little :)[/quote]

you wouldnt have to nerf the buff, but if you are able to attack people in your bracket for pvp there should be a little different system on how transfer occur

more of a standard transfer between players whether they had more or less points would be ideal.[/quote]

Set a maximum that can be transferred?[/quote]

Perhaps a standard amount is transferred, in every combat? say 10 rating for 10 stam attack, and 20 rating for 99 stam attack .. with 25 rating for 100 stam :D This way, people can't be completely raped of their pvp rating by 1 person in 1 hit. Ideally, gloat and honor would be removed too. But since this probably isn't gonna happen, a nerf is in order :D

As for bounties, you would only receive 1/10 of the amount of pvp rating that you would normally receive, rounded down. The first person to complete the bounty would receive all the pvp rating that was rounded down, as well as a bonus of perhaps 5 rating. Also, ideally, gloat and honor would be changed to not work on the BB :)


0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

Font:
Arial | Calibri | Lucida Console | Verdana
 
Font Size:
9px | 10px | 11px | 12px | 10pt | 12pt
 
Color: