PvP Ladder - Level Brackets (Continued)
#61
fs_imetalusi
Posted 21 November 2010 - 03:03
Not to mention the obvious... it sucks to battle a player you are fighting once a day.. thats absurd. <---lol there goes the BIg FONT Again V^^^^V
#62
fs_gravely
Posted 21 November 2010 - 03:13
Why do you like the 24 hour rule Grave?
A couple reasons, met.
One, it encourages having more targets. More targets means you're dominant over more people.
Two, it makes it much harder for a small group of individuals to trade lots of rating back and forth, or for one player to "feed" another.
Three, for those of us who can't afford to spend large amounts of time on FS defending ourselves from would be PvP artists, it gives us a legitimate chance to fight back. I work 6o to 8o+ hours a week. If someone wanted to hourly me for rating, I would be pretty much unable to do anything to stop them, regardless of whether I'm better than them or not, as you and I both know that defending while offline is an iffy proposition at best.
#63
Posted 21 November 2010 - 03:19
Why do you like the 24 hour rule Grave?
A couple reasons, met.
One, it encourages having more targets. More targets means you're dominant over more people.
Two, it makes it much harder for a small group of individuals to trade lots of rating back and forth, or for one player to "feed" another.
Three, for those of us who can't afford to spend large amounts of time on FS defending ourselves from would be PvP artists, it gives us a legitimate chance to fight back. I work 6o to 8o+ hours a week. If someone wanted to hourly me for rating, I would be pretty much unable to do anything to stop them, regardless of whether I'm better than them or not, as you and I both know that defending while offline is an iffy proposition at best.
all good points ,but for those of us that have a decent amount of time to play FS it's a real drag.
you can only 100stam so many ppl before you stop getting rating from them ,and once you hit 1450+ rating it becomes alot harder to find targets to get rating from without using gloat.
( i don't like nor use Gloat ,and think it should be removed from the game or atleast lower the effect it has )
could always do bounties ,but that only gets you so far aswell...
#64
Posted 21 November 2010 - 03:19
#65
Posted 21 November 2010 - 03:21
I am going to have to agree here that 24 is not really a bad thing. With this rule it would take several days for someone to amass a lot of rating within small group as graves said. also i see the point on defending that graves made. i can see why many people dont and wont like it but as a whole i think it was a smart thing to implement
with Gloat it only takes 2-3 100stams to reach 1400+ so i have no idea what you mean by "several days for someone to amass a lot of rating"
#66
Posted 21 November 2010 - 03:22
Why do you like the 24 hour rule Grave?
A couple reasons, met.
One, it encourages having more targets. More targets means you're dominant over more people.
Two, it makes it much harder for a small group of individuals to trade lots of rating back and forth, or for one player to "feed" another.
Three, for those of us who can't afford to spend large amounts of time on FS defending ourselves from would be PvP artists, it gives us a legitimate chance to fight back. I work 6o to 8o+ hours a week. If someone wanted to hourly me for rating, I would be pretty much unable to do anything to stop them, regardless of whether I'm better than them or not, as you and I both know that defending while offline is an iffy proposition at best.
all good points ,but for those of us that have a decent amount of time to play FS it's a real drag.
you can only 100stam so many ppl before you stop getting rating from them ,and once you hit 1450+ rating it becomes alot harder to find targets to get rating from without using gloat.
( i don't like nor use Gloat ,and think it should be removed from the game or atleast lower the effect it has )
could always do bounties ,but that only gets you so far aswell...
Dominance is not meant to be in easy. you shouldn't get top rating from a couple hits or just hitting the same people over and over... the people at the top of the ladder should be there from haveing to beat many people over several days.. just my 2 cents
#67
Posted 21 November 2010 - 03:23
I am going to have to agree here that 24 is not really a bad thing. With this rule it would take several days for someone to amass a lot of rating within small group as graves said. also i see the point on defending that graves made. i can see why many people dont and wont like it but as a whole i think it was a smart thing to implement
with Gloat it only takes 2-3 100stams to reach 1400+ so i have no idea what you mean by "several days for someone to amass a lot of rating"
Ok i didnt count gloat into this as i dont use it dont like it and dont know how much is transferred with it. but if they can get that much that easy then think if they could hit the same people every hour for a day to "feed" off them
#68
Posted 21 November 2010 - 03:26
Dominance is not meant to be in easy. you shouldn't get top rating from a couple hits or just hitting the same people over and over... the people at the top of the ladder should be there from haveing to beat many people over several days.. just my 2 cents
Ok i didnt count gloat into this as i dont use it dont like it and dont know how much is transferred with it. but if they can get that much that easy then think if they could hit the same people every hour for a day to "feed" off them
obviously you didn't understand what i said.
once you reach 1450+ you have no choice ,but to keep hitting the same handful of targets as those are the only one you can still get rating from.
also once you take rating from them you can't keep attacking every hour to get rating anyway because as you get higher and higher up while they go down you keep getting less and less until you get none.
and as i said before i don't use gloat ,but i know how much you lose from it.
#69
fs_imetalusi
Posted 21 November 2010 - 03:35
Why do you like the 24 hour rule Grave?
A couple reasons, met.
One, it encourages having more targets. More targets means you're dominant over more people.
Two, it makes it much harder for a small group of individuals to trade lots of rating back and forth, or for one player to "feed" another.
Three, for those of us who can't afford to spend large amounts of time on FS defending ourselves from would be PvP artists, it gives us a legitimate chance to fight back. I work 6o to 8o+ hours a week. If someone wanted to hourly me for rating, I would be pretty much unable to do anything to stop them, regardless of whether I'm better than them or not, as you and I both know that defending while offline is an iffy proposition at best.
My Thoughts Grave,
1.) I disagree with the encourages having more targets. Most PvP players I know battle all those in range, if they even have any. I know I do.
2.) It doesn't make it harder to for a small group of individuals to trade, it makes it easier to filter PvP away from the initial target out of range down to the low levels like level 11 for example. And even PvP players that are legit have less of a chance to get that rating back if the one who hit you has a much lower rating, Even with Gloat, Thats the real problem with the 24 hour rule it puts the one with more rating at a disadvantage.
3.) I agree, that being active is def. an edge.. it is what it is.. no denying that. I once played for 8 hours once just to get back my rating... after being farmed from 1800+ to 1200+ hourly.. it was fun as hell lol, but honestly activity should be rewarded. I would argue that when I do play I want to play and not it a daily battle bro. I mean you have had head to head battles with players right? Going back and forth, changing gear sets like the BB but in a slow time warp lol. And with the FSP to made, and the Gear, and the logging in to see who need to get beat down for dropping from your rightful spot!
What are your thoughts on not resetting the ladder, but a constant battle for repping your range.
#70
fs_imetalusi
Posted 21 November 2010 - 03:43
Dominance is not meant to be in easy. you shouldn't get top rating from a couple hits or just hitting the same people over and over... the people at the top of the ladder should be there from haveing to beat many people over several days.. just my 2 cents
Who says staying on the ladder is easy now unless your a multie, and its impossible to get top rating from a few attacks bro.. and hitting the same people over and over is exactly what happens when those in your level range have filtered up to a certain ranking. even if its every 24 hours. that wount change it it will just make it slow motion lol.
Day 1 its everyone for them self, meaning massive attacks on 25 to 30 people a day.. then you gain rating and are a target from who have done the same... like a pyramid.. till ya get to the top...
#71
Posted 21 November 2010 - 03:48
Dominance is not meant to be in easy. you shouldn't get top rating from a couple hits or just hitting the same people over and over... the people at the top of the ladder should be there from haveing to beat many people over several days.. just my 2 cents
Who says staying on the ladder is easy now unless your a multie, and its impossible to get top rating from a few attacks bro.. and hitting the same people over and over is exactly what happens when those in your level range have filtered up to a certain ranking. even if its every 24 hours. that wount change it it will just make it slow motion lol.
Day 1 its everyone for them self, meaning massive attacks on 25 to 30 people a day.. then you gain rating and are a target from who have done the same... like a pyramid.. till ya get to the top...
+1
it's not easy staying on top ,and it really sucks to put alot effort into staying on top just be gloated right before the reset.
#72
Posted 21 November 2010 - 03:49
LoL was just brought to my attention how many posters talken smack have a 1000 and under PvP rating. Translation they havent PvP“d in Dayz... :shock: Thanks Lyn!
See:
Right now, the higher level player in the top 50 is level 471. Nothing else to say.
There is a reason for at least SOME of the poster's rating's being unchanged. PvP is effectively pointless for anyone over 500 or so. Hence a lot of players are simply not bothering (and *shock horror* spending some time on other facets of the game) to actively paticipate in PvP right now. It's broken for a lot of people. Why should we participate in something that is so biased against us?
I say suspend it until it is fixed.
PvP will continue if the ladder is suspended. Or so I infer from all the 'talken smack'. Alas I doubt we will ever find out...
#73
fs_imetalusi
Posted 21 November 2010 - 03:53
#74
fs_gravely
Posted 21 November 2010 - 04:18
My Thoughts Grave,
1.) I disagree with the encourages having more targets. Most PvP players I know battle all those in range, if they even have any. I know I do.
Keep in mind that I argue this in the context of suggestions I have made, ergo having a bracket that you would be able to hit any member of, which would increase the available number of targets in "range" as it were, as opposed to the one or two other competitors most people have in range as things stand.
2.) It doesn't make it harder to for a small group of individuals to trade, it makes it easier to filter PvP away from the initial target out of range down to the low levels like level 11 for example.
Alright, first off, I don't even want to hear about level 50 or under. Most of those players shouldn't be pvping to begin with, and I refuse to try and build a system that attempts to consider level 1000 players and level 10 players at the same time, because I don't believe that's even possible.
Simply put, if you're level 10 and have existed less than 90 days in the game, you aren't part of the dominance equation. That probably applies to anything under level 50, as well. You can say that sounds hard, but guess what - you have VERY little life experience with FS with one or two noteable exceptions, you don't know how half the mechanics work, and you have no meaningful ability to influence the larger PvP environment. You prey on n00bs and people with your same level of half skill and no ability to truly defend yourself.
And even PvP players that are legit have less of a chance to get that rating back if the one who hit you has a much lower rating, Even with Gloat, Thats the real problem with the 24 hour rule it puts the one with more rating at a disadvantage.
So what if for 24 hours, you had the chance to regain any rating you had lost to a given player, reduced to a bare minimum of 50% of what you lost - assuming that the player that stole your rating was consistently defeated by other players off the board?
3.) I agree, that being active is def. an edge.. it is what it is.. no denying that.
Right now it's much more than an edge, it's a completely gross and unfair advantage. Until you implement a system that gives the defender a reasonable expectation of being able to actually successfully defend, limitation of damage to a reasonable consequence is the only method of bringing things back into balance.
I once played for 8 hours once just to get back my rating... after being farmed from 1800+ to 1200+ hourly.. it was fun as hell lol, but honestly activity should be rewarded. I would argue that when I do play I want to play and not it a daily battle bro. I mean you have had head to head battles with players right? Going back and forth, changing gear sets like the BB but in a slow time warp lol. And with the FSP to made, and the Gear, and the logging in to see who need to get beat down for dropping from your rightful spot!
More activity in the new system I've suggested would be rewarded, but head to heads wouldn't rely solely on who could be more active, which I can only view as a plus.
What are your thoughts on not resetting the ladder, but a constant battle for repping your range.
First, you probably don't remember how an unreset ladder used to be. It was awful. People had 2500+ rating and kept it for months and were untouchable. It was bad, just in a different way.
Second, how would tokens be awarded? At random times? Why should players who game the system - and any system we design or the Cows invent WILL be gamed - be rewarded for successfully gaming the system only once? At least in the current environment they have to do it constantly, rather than resting on their ill-gotten gains. Finally, I don't think an unreset ladder is fair, because I know that some players would be able to prevent others from ever having an opportunity to get a foothold.
#75
Posted 21 November 2010 - 04:22
In my opinion no matter how much you tweak a basically flawed system, you will never get it right. You'll either end up not solving much at all or you will solve a lot of things but PvP rating wont be be an indication of PvP activity, skill, effort or whatever.. You will basically just move the problem around.
What I find really sad about all of this is that players have started separating PvP and bounty hunting, while in my opinion the most real and live PvP you can get in this game is on the board with both opponents online and somewhat close in level. Not much challenge in hitting an unsuspecting target off the board really..
So, how about a different suggestion?
Make a REAL PvP arena similar to how the BB works.
- Each player have 5 hits each and they switch on being attacker/defender.
- You choose a tourney within your level range (ranges can be 50-100 levels maybe?). Say, 8-10 players can enter each tourney and the game will randomly pick who is to fight who.
- Opponent and level remains anonymous until the tourney is over, you can only see stats and buffs.
- Deflect will be banned from the tournament.
- Remove rating from everywhere else in the game. If a player havent done a tourney within the last 6 hours their rating will decay by 10 every 6 hours.
- Minor or no XP loss.
Let the flaming begin.
*runs for her life*
#76
fs_gravely
Posted 21 November 2010 - 04:25
- Minor or no XP loss. and also, presumably, no ability to bounty.
This is where I have an issue, KJ.
#77
Posted 21 November 2010 - 04:27
Well, this will be a tourney where you choose to participate. You will hit just as much as your opponent.. Its something different from regular pvp all together.. but still not..- Minor or no XP loss. and also, presumably, no ability to bounty.
This is where I have an issue, KJ.
#78
fs_imetalusi
Posted 21 November 2010 - 04:39
My Thoughts Grave,
1.) I disagree with the encourages having more targets. Most PvP players I know battle all those in range, if they even have any. I know I do.
Keep in mind that I argue this in the context of suggestions I have made, ergo having a bracket that you would be able to hit any member of, which would increase the available number of targets in "range" as it were, as opposed to the one or two other competitors most people have in range as things stand.
Ahh I see... I was speaking from my suggestion earlier..2.) It doesn't make it harder to for a small group of individuals to trade, it makes it easier to filter PvP away from the initial target out of range down to the low levels like level 11 for example.
Alright, first off, I don't even want to hear about level 50 or under. Most of those players shouldn't be pvping to begin with, and I refuse to try and build a system that attempts to consider level 1000 players and level 10 players at the same time, because I don't believe that's even possible.
Simply put, if you're level 10 and have existed less than 90 days in the game, you aren't part of the dominance equation. That probably applies to anything under level 50, as well. You can say that sounds hard, but guess what - you have VERY little life experience with FS with one or two noteable exceptions, you don't know how half the mechanics work, and you have no meaningful ability to influence the larger PvP environment. You prey on n00bs and people with your same level of half skill and no ability to truly defend yourself.
Yea I was speaking how the game is now... but a 30 day probation would be nice I think 90 is way to much lol it doesnt that long to pick this game up.And even PvP players that are legit have less of a chance to get that rating back if the one who hit you has a much lower rating, Even with Gloat, Thats the real problem with the 24 hour rule it puts the one with more rating at a disadvantage.
So what if for 24 hours, you had the chance to regain any rating you had lost to a given player, reduced to a bare minimum of 50% of what you lost - assuming that the player that stole your rating was consistently defeated by other players off the board?
Still you cant get your rating back in one hit as your opponent takes more if you are higher rating. So its a disadvantage to be better lol?3.) I agree, that being active is def. an edge.. it is what it is.. no denying that.
Right now it's much more than an edge, it's a completely gross and unfair advantage. Until you implement a system that gives the defender a reasonable expectation of being able to actually successfully defend, limitation of damage to a reasonable consequence is the only method of bringing things back into balance.
Its not Gross and Unfair man its FUN... I cant believe you want to only battle ONCE every 24 hours?? Dam lol :shock:I once played for 8 hours once just to get back my rating... after being farmed from 1800+ to 1200+ hourly.. it was fun as hell lol, but honestly activity should be rewarded. I would argue that when I do play I want to play and not it a daily battle bro. I mean you have had head to head battles with players right? Going back and forth, changing gear sets like the BB but in a slow time warp lol. And with the FSP to made, and the Gear, and the logging in to see who need to get beat down for dropping from your rightful spot!
More activity in the new system I've suggested would be rewarded, but head to heads wouldn't rely solely on who could be more active, which I can only view as a plus.
ohhh so now the more active the better?... I need to read your forum suggestion lolWhat are your thoughts on not resetting the ladder, but a constant battle for repping your range.
First, you probably don't remember how an unreset ladder used to be. It was awful. People had 2500+ rating and kept it for months and were untouchable. It was bad, just in a different way.
Second, how would tokens be awarded? At random times? Why should players who game the system - and any system we design or the Cows invent WILL be gamed - be rewarded for successfully gaming the system only once? At least in the current environment they have to do it constantly, rather than resting on their ill-gotten gains. Finally, I don't think an unreset ladder is fair, because I know that some players would be able to prevent others from ever having an opportunity to get a foothold.
Dont remember it? I was on it.. for a short time lol and if they make level brackets it would be allot different. Tokens would be awarded as they are now except instead of top 50 it would be top 3 in each of the 20 proposed brackets. Remember only 5% of players would be represented in each level range. So the ill gotten gains will be minimal... and allot harder to get, and it wont push other pvp players out of there level range dominance.
#79
Posted 21 November 2010 - 04:47
#80
fs_imetalusi
Posted 21 November 2010 - 04:49
Question....how much more rating then someone do i have to have before I don't gain? On a bounty hit.. I'm curious... Oo
500 bro
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