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#701 Tegger

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Posted 29 November 2010 - 22:22

might you quote me an instance anywhere similar to this that has occurred between then and now??The reason this has developed as it has is totally due to the lack of response from HCS on the matter.



Again, look at the OP (and my) guild tag. It was brought out as a topic in a general manner, to avoid the bickering that is going on now. Obviously that hasn't worked. If you're familiar with the way WK operates as a whole, we don't air our dirty laundry on the forums. This is why.

#702 KitiaraLi

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Posted 29 November 2010 - 22:22

I want to be able to PvP anyone I can, whenever I want, and for whatever reason without sending any messages. It's called playing Fallensword and has been allowed since I began playing. Currently, through my founder I am specifically instructed by an HCS admin not to attack anyone from a certain guild because it is deemed in defense of a relic after they ran to HCS, otherwise if I or any guildmate does attack someone in this guild we are under threat to be suspended or terminated. This is wrong!!!

Hoof, wake up and say something please! This rogue judgment does not follow the standards of the game that we have all been playing. I'm glad this topic is public for the community to disseminate as it truly effects everyone in the community.


omg. that certain guild is as free to grab any relic as any guild losing that relic is to use game mechanisms to deter them from doing so. Without knowing any hidden details : this instruction from HCS scares me. Lots.


This is not the first time it has happened we might add ... and as always we abide the rulings, or in these cases what seems like threats, being sent to us by this game admin. This time around we had an additional kicker added to it, when announcing not to hit, except for when the other guild was found on the board, or had gold/rating to take. Didn't take more than 1 bounty till we were told we could not hourly hit 'em, clear their bounties/stomp 'em on the board, gold hit, hit for rating as well as we are not allowed to GvG 'em. All while they're free to take the relics for their own amusement whenever they feel like it.
As someone so smoothly described it; It is an order to bend over, and await the insertion.

No one can deny that we changed this game and influenced it in such a way that NO ONE could compete with us.. so much so that they changed the rules. ~Abhorrence, chosen founder of Cerulean Sins


#703 fs_evfisher

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Posted 29 November 2010 - 22:23

I want to be able to PvP anyone I can, whenever I want, and for whatever reason without sending any messages. It's called playing Fallensword and has been allowed since I began playing. Currently, through my founder I am specifically instructed by an HCS admin not to attack anyone from a certain guild because it is deemed in defense of a relic after they ran to HCS, otherwise if I or any guildmate does attack someone in this guild we are under threat to be suspended or terminated. This is wrong!!!

Hoof, wake up and say something please! This rogue judgment does not follow the standards of the game that we have all been playing. I'm glad this topic is public for the community to disseminate as it truly effects everyone in the community.


omg. that certain guild is as free to grab any relic as any guild losing that relic is to use game mechanisms to deter them from doing so. Without knowing any hidden details : this instruction from HCS scares me. Lots.



That was not OWC. :)

#704 KitiaraLi

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Posted 29 November 2010 - 22:25

might you quote me an instance anywhere similar to this that has occurred between then and now??The reason this has developed as it has is totally due to the lack of response from HCS on the matter.


Not to sound like a wisegirl, but read the entire thread and you will see several WKs mentioning our current, and still ongoing struggle with this.

No one can deny that we changed this game and influenced it in such a way that NO ONE could compete with us.. so much so that they changed the rules. ~Abhorrence, chosen founder of Cerulean Sins


#705 fs_ogrvity

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Posted 29 November 2010 - 22:28

you were contacted well before the 9 captures of the relic? and it didn't stop?
and you say , oh why bother


Did you contact me? No. Jinks is the only one in your guild that I had ANY discussion with, and we had a very civil conversation about what we could do because we both agreed that everything that was happening benefited neither guild. I did receive 1 other offline message from your guild founder but that was after the war had began and he was offline after that, which is why Jinks contacted me about working towards a solution.[/quote

YOU was meant as the guild, you on and off


So you declared war without talking to ev (who was our guild founder at the time) or myself? How does that make any sense?

#706 celendais

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Posted 29 November 2010 - 22:28

ev: I did not say that.

Kit : omg omg omg. How can an admin rule that GVG is not allowed? only damage you can do to other guild would be spellbreaking their leveling buffs or damaging gear or I am missing something here as the big noob I am?? heck gvg protects a bit against xp-loss, its a good tactic for a leveling guild to defend against hourly attacks in a guild war situation ( part of game mechanism)....

#707 fs_dougmines

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Posted 29 November 2010 - 22:29

might you quote me an instance anywhere similar to this that has occurred between then and now??The reason this has developed as it has is totally due to the lack of response from HCS on the matter.


Not to sound like a wisegirl, but read the entire thread and you will see several WKs mentioning our current, and still ongoing struggle with this.


No fear of my thinking that from anyone there, many many friends among your number. I was unaware of what was occurring there, and according to what I have read, perhaps they simply need to develop a child friendly version of this game. It's seems adults and adult logic no longer applies.

#708 3JS

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Posted 29 November 2010 - 22:31

I just read all this garbage, and I have a few problems.

1. No one owns any relics in this game. Is there long standing relic holds? Absolutely. Do those guilds that hold them have a right to defend them? Yes they do. Should anyone, including HCS be able to tell them how to defend it? No way. As long as they are within the game rules, all is fair. Whether they decide to 100 stam you for taking it, or they decide to go to war with your guild - it's their perogative to do so. If they retaliate fiercely to every relic attack, maybe people will decide it's not worth it to try and take it. Good for the defending guild. It happens around the world every day. No one, and I mean NO ONE should be able to dictate how others play the game, as long as they are within the rules.

2. In my opinion, if you write a ticket complaining that someone is attacking you in retaliation for a part of the game that has been here since the beginning - you are the one that is wrong. If you want the relic, be prepared to fight for it. Bottom line.

If I am leveling, and I hold too much gold - I know for a fact that someone from TWP will gladly take it off of my hands. When it happens, and it has - it is MY FAULT. I know they will do it, and I still take the chance. No need in being angry with TWP, they are just doing what they do. It's the same principle here. You know that if you take certain relics, there will be a consequence. If you do it anyway, don't cry that someone is picking on you.

I find this situation ridiculous. HCS has stepped in and made players stop playing the game the way they want to. If that's the case, we need an opt out button. If you want someone else to make others stop playing their game, you should be forced to fill out a survey. One option - opt out of all PvP. This includes relics, GvG, bounty board, and everything that goes with it. Everyone else can then play the game they way they want and not have to worry about this silliness anymore.

By the way - banning celendais was even more ridiculous than this conversation. I guess I can expect my ban tomorrow, too.

#709 sweetlou

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Posted 29 November 2010 - 22:34

I want to be able to PvP anyone I can, whenever I want, and for whatever reason without sending any messages. It's called playing Fallensword and has been allowed since I began playing. Currently, through my founder I am specifically instructed by an HCS admin not to attack anyone from a certain guild because it is deemed in defense of a relic after they ran to HCS, otherwise if I or any guildmate does attack someone in this guild we are under threat to be suspended or terminated. This is wrong!!!

Hoof, wake up and say something please! This rogue judgment does not follow the standards of the game that we have all been playing. I'm glad this topic is public for the community to disseminate as it truly effects everyone in the community.


omg. that certain guild is as free to grab any relic as any guild losing that relic is to use game mechanisms to deter them from doing so. Without knowing any hidden details : this instruction from HCS scares me. Lots.



That was not OWC. :)

It is the same issue however. This thread was made to bring to light the new directive from an HCS admin and to get feedback from the community. All the bickering between guilds via PM or the forum regarding who did what when is as nonsensical as the new judgment that has been handed down by a dev. Let us play the game!

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“When you tear out a man's tongue, you are not proving him a liar, you're only telling the world that you fear what he might say.” -GRRM


#710 celendais

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Posted 29 November 2010 - 22:41

bottom line is still: if one admin is telling WK or whomever what is allowed or not allowed and that ruling is changing fundamental things that have been part of game from day 1 , then HCS must act at highest level to tell everyone that the rules of the game have been changed. And explain to us all the rationale behind that .CUrrent situation - with the disclaimer that "we" as community only have WK´s side of the story- is utterly nonsensical (?), arbitrary and unfair.

Just to give a restless relic story:
Guild XXX were pestering "our" relic for a few days. We upped our defenses, they tried to move in. Fair enough. But when they never empowered , used EW1500 and DC225 just to grab for 1 hour , I suggested 100 stams ( which is big step for a mainly leveling , mainly peacful and quiet guild of noobs lol). WHen guild XXX heard about this ,they decided to move away and now have solid control of other relic. No tickets, no disrespect no nothing.(EDIT some harsh messages might have been sent, sometimes my temper gets the best of me ) Just peeps playing a game.

#711 fs_dougmines

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Posted 29 November 2010 - 22:46

Maybe they should just do it like adults did in developing pools with various depths. Those who need to circumvent the rules that we have always been subjected to can always hang at the shallow end until they feel comfortable playing as we always have

#712 Removed22342

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Posted 29 November 2010 - 22:59

Just to give a restless relic story:
Guild XXX were pestering "our" relic for a few days. We upped our defenses, they tried to move in. Fair enough. But when they never empowered , used EW1500 and DC225 just to grab for 1 hour , I suggested 100 stams ( which is big step for a mainly leveling , mainly peacful and quiet guild of noobs lol). WHen guild XXX heard about this ,they decided to move away and now have solid control of other relic. No tickets, no disrespect no nothing. Just peeps playing a game.


As it should be, coming up with a tactic and (at least being prepared to) execute it. If the opponents feel it's too much to handle they'll hopefully look elsewhere. Instead it seems like admins are getting more and more involved for no obvious reasons.

#713 boeffie

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Posted 29 November 2010 - 23:38

As that key is still lost, posting the following for Stang:



StangValle says: Relics are free game to anybody in Fallen Sword. In some cases there is alot of guild resources tied into them such as the gold costs for empowering or the stamina used to return to a relic. Not to mention stam used to keep a lead defender buffed.

There are many options within game mechanics to defend a relic as mentioned above but also including direct PVP. There are also many options to defend against that PVP.
Players who are being hit for an act of aggression can place a bounty which in most cases will cause the attacker to lose more XP then they took. A ten stam clear on the bounty board is pretty much equal to 2 100 stam attacks off the bounty board. Players also have the option to lock their XP through the upgrades section for 25 fsp. That makes them immune from losing a large amount of XP through direct PVP.
These are all part of the game mechanics put into the game for reasons like the one being discussed in this topic. Players are allowed to 100 stam hourly if they choose to. Players are not allowed to threaten another player as that is deemed harrasment.
HCS needs to let us play by the game rules. There are options for players being PVP'ed in game already. If a guild decides to take a relic be prepared to fight for it since so much is put into trying to hold a relic. Be prepared for whatever way the defending guild decides to defend the relic. Be prepared to report any threats or offensive messages sent to your guild as that would be against TOS.

HCS, let us play within game rules. HCS, stop sending people threats of suspension or termination for playing within game rules. The people being hit have the options to defend themselves as listed above within game mechanics. I'm waiting for a response from the cows on this topic to decide if the Christmas offer is something I want or just a big lump of coal.

#714 fs_gravely

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Posted 29 November 2010 - 23:42

Absolutely on point. Totally agree with Stang.

#715 fs_dougmines

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Posted 29 November 2010 - 23:43

As that key is still lost, posting the following for Stang:



StangValle says: Relics are free game to anybody in Fallen Sword. In some cases there is alot of guild resources tied into them such as the gold costs for empowering or the stamina used to return to a relic. Not to mention stam used to keep a lead defender buffed.

There are many options within game mechanics to defend a relic as mentioned above but also including direct PVP. There are also many options to defend against that PVP.
Players who are being hit for an act of aggression can place a bounty which in most cases will cause the attacker to lose more XP then they took. A ten stam clear on the bounty board is pretty much equal to 2 100 stam attacks off the bounty board. Players also have the option to lock their XP through the upgrades section for 25 fsp. That makes them immune from losing a large amount of XP through direct PVP.
These are all part of the game mechanics put into the game for reasons like the one being discussed in this topic. Players are allowed to 100 stam hourly if they choose to. Players are not allowed to threaten another player as that is deemed harrasment.
HCS needs to let us play by the game rules. There are options for players being PVP'ed in game already. If a guild decides to take a relic be prepared to fight for it since so much is put into trying to hold a relic. Be prepared for whatever way the defending guild decides to defend the relic. Be prepared to report any threats or offensive messages sent to your guild as that would be against TOS.

HCS, let us play within game rules. HCS, stop sending people threats of suspension or termination for playing within game rules. The people being hit have the options to defend themselves as listed above within game mechanics. I'm waiting for a response from the cows on this topic to decide if the Christmas offer is something I want or just a big lump of coal.


+1 , couldn't have said it better

#716 sweetlou

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Posted 29 November 2010 - 23:45

As that key is still lost, posting the following for Stang:

I'm waiting for a response from the cows on this topic to decide if the Christmas offer is something I want or just a big lump of coal.

I think a lot of us are...

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“When you tear out a man's tongue, you are not proving him a liar, you're only telling the world that you fear what he might say.” -GRRM


#717 oucho

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 00:27

oucho wrote:
you were contacted well before the 9 captures of the relic? and it didn't stop?
and you say , oh why bother


Did you contact me? No. Jinks is the only one in your guild that I had ANY discussion with, and we had a very civil conversation about what we could do because we both agreed that everything that was happening benefited neither guild. I did receive 1 other offline message from your guild founder but that was after the war had began and he was offline after that, which is why Jinks contacted me about working towards a solution.[/quote

oucho; YOU was meant as the guild, you on and off


ogrvity;So you declared war without talking to ev (who was our guild founder at the time) or myself? How does that make any sense?

oucho; Left the names out, but you [the guild] new what was coming, but i see this is just another attempt to skirt the real issues. Your guilds policies, post in founders bio, taunting statements by members and repeated agression brought this down on you! Nothing else!!!!!

#718 Bunnybee

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 00:34

+ 1 for me too at StangValle's post.

#719 oucho

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 00:34

Haven't read all 50 pages, and was wondering if they have said anything that amounts to a hill of beans?

#720 fs_phyrstormz

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 00:37

Is this part true?

that HCS has said that "bounties reserved for XXX" is not allowed anymore?
?

Cause that would be big news to a in-game-practice that has been going on for ever.

( you can have different opinion on the bountys reserved thingee, its a bit complicated in my book but still it it seems odd if support suddenly forbids this, if this is the case they should announce a change in TOS or something like that)



just as a fyi, this is indeed correct

many people have their bio's removed for saying that


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