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#721 fs_nthnclls

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 00:38

Is this part true?

that HCS has said that "bounties reserved for XXX" is not allowed anymore?
?

Cause that would be big news to a in-game-practice that has been going on for ever.

( you can have different opinion on the bountys reserved thingee, its a bit complicated in my book but still it it seems odd if support suddenly forbids this, if this is the case they should announce a change in TOS or something like that)



just as a fyi, this is indeed correct

many people have their bio's removed for saying that


That's idiotic, and it shows a massive change in HCS policy that shouldn't be done randomly.

#722 Mzzery

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 00:38

I'll admit that I haven't read the entire thread, so I'll probably just say what others already have said, but here are my 2 cents:

If you attack someone, wether it be by taking a relic they have empowered, or by pvp, you should expect a reaction from them.

If you continue taking a relic they have empowered, or continue to pvp them, you should expect a bigger reaction.

It's the way things work in real life, and so it should be the way things work ingame as well, no?

If a guild doesn't want to get 100 stammed by another guild, they can chose to not upset that other guild by repeatedly taking empowered relics from that other guild.

ACTION = REACTION.

I fail to see what the problem is, to be honest.

I saw someone mention the word harrassment. Maybe my english isn't what it should be, but to me, harrassment would be if someone unprovoked went and took relics, 100 stammed, and so on, over and over.

Unprovoked.

To me, taking an empowered relic is a provocation.

Am I wrong? I doubt it.

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#723 oucho

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 00:39

Is this part true?

that HCS has said that "bounties reserved for XXX" is not allowed anymore?
?

Cause that would be big news to a in-game-practice that has been going on for ever.

( you can have different opinion on the bountys reserved thingee, its a bit complicated in my book but still it it seems odd if support suddenly forbids this, if this is the case they should announce a change in TOS or something like that)



just as a fyi, this is indeed correct

many people have their bio's removed for saying that



Yep, half a certain guilds was removed

#724 oucho

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 00:43

I'll admit that I haven't read the entire thread, so I'll probably just say what others already have said, but here are my 2 cents:

If you attack someone, wether it be by taking a relic they have empowered, or by pvp, you should expect a reaction from them.

If you continue taking a relic they have empowered, or continue to pvp them, you should expect a bigger reaction.

It's the way things work in real life, and so it should be the way things work ingame as well, no?

If a guild doesn't want to get 100 stammed by another guild, they can chose to not upset that other guild by repeatedly taking empowered relics from that other guild.

ACTION = REACTION.

I fail to see what the problem is, to be honest.

I saw someone mention the word harrassment. Maybe my english isn't what it should be, but to me, harrassment would be if someone unprovoked went and took relics, 100 stammed, and so on, over and over.

Unprovoked.

To me, taking an empowered relic is a provocation.

Am I wrong? I doubt it.


MZZERY are you saying you would cause mzzery to someone repeatedly taking your relic, lol.

#725 Mzzery

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 00:44

I'll admit that I haven't read the entire thread, so I'll probably just say what others already have said, but here are my 2 cents:

If you attack someone, wether it be by taking a relic they have empowered, or by pvp, you should expect a reaction from them.

If you continue taking a relic they have empowered, or continue to pvp them, you should expect a bigger reaction.

It's the way things work in real life, and so it should be the way things work ingame as well, no?

If a guild doesn't want to get 100 stammed by another guild, they can chose to not upset that other guild by repeatedly taking empowered relics from that other guild.

ACTION = REACTION.

I fail to see what the problem is, to be honest.

I saw someone mention the word harrassment. Maybe my english isn't what it should be, but to me, harrassment would be if someone unprovoked went and took relics, 100 stammed, and so on, over and over.

Unprovoked.

To me, taking an empowered relic is a provocation.

Am I wrong? I doubt it.


MZZERY are you saying you would cause mzzery to someone repeatedly taking your relic, lol.


I wouldn't rule that out ;)

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#726 celendais

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 00:46

Is this part true?

that HCS has said that "bounties reserved for XXX" is not allowed anymore?
?

Cause that would be big news to a in-game-practice that has been going on for ever.

( you can have different opinion on the bountys reserved thingee, its a bit complicated in my book but still it it seems odd if support suddenly forbids this, if this is the case they should announce a change in TOS or something like that)



just as a fyi, this is indeed correct

many people have their bio's removed for saying that


oh wow that is a game update nobody knew about. I can see some valid points as to why "bounties reserved" is not 100% a good idea and I could live with it being judged not allowed. But it boils to the same thing: don´t change game rules or long-time standing ways players have done things without letting us all know and without explaining things. It gets creepier and creepier....

#727 Mzzery

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 00:49

As that key is still lost, posting the following for Stang:



StangValle says: Relics are free game to anybody in Fallen Sword. In some cases there is alot of guild resources tied into them such as the gold costs for empowering or the stamina used to return to a relic. Not to mention stam used to keep a lead defender buffed.

There are many options within game mechanics to defend a relic as mentioned above but also including direct PVP. There are also many options to defend against that PVP.
Players who are being hit for an act of aggression can place a bounty which in most cases will cause the attacker to lose more XP then they took. A ten stam clear on the bounty board is pretty much equal to 2 100 stam attacks off the bounty board. Players also have the option to lock their XP through the upgrades section for 25 fsp. That makes them immune from losing a large amount of XP through direct PVP.
These are all part of the game mechanics put into the game for reasons like the one being discussed in this topic. Players are allowed to 100 stam hourly if they choose to. Players are not allowed to threaten another player as that is deemed harrasment.
HCS needs to let us play by the game rules. There are options for players being PVP'ed in game already. If a guild decides to take a relic be prepared to fight for it since so much is put into trying to hold a relic. Be prepared for whatever way the defending guild decides to defend the relic. Be prepared to report any threats or offensive messages sent to your guild as that would be against TOS.

HCS, let us play within game rules. HCS, stop sending people threats of suspension or termination for playing within game rules. The people being hit have the options to defend themselves as listed above within game mechanics. I'm waiting for a response from the cows on this topic to decide if the Christmas offer is something I want or just a big lump of coal.


+1

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#728 Splash

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 00:52

+1 to everything Stang said. Sums it up nicely.

#729 StarCraft

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 00:55

As that key is still lost, posting the following for Stang:



StangValle says: Relics are free game to anybody in Fallen Sword. In some cases there is alot of guild resources tied into them such as the gold costs for empowering or the stamina used to return to a relic. Not to mention stam used to keep a lead defender buffed.

There are many options within game mechanics to defend a relic as mentioned above but also including direct PVP. There are also many options to defend against that PVP.
Players who are being hit for an act of aggression can place a bounty which in most cases will cause the attacker to lose more XP then they took. A ten stam clear on the bounty board is pretty much equal to 2 100 stam attacks off the bounty board. Players also have the option to lock their XP through the upgrades section for 25 fsp. That makes them immune from losing a large amount of XP through direct PVP.
These are all part of the game mechanics put into the game for reasons like the one being discussed in this topic. Players are allowed to 100 stam hourly if they choose to. Players are not allowed to threaten another player as that is deemed harrasment.
HCS needs to let us play by the game rules. There are options for players being PVP'ed in game already. If a guild decides to take a relic be prepared to fight for it since so much is put into trying to hold a relic. Be prepared for whatever way the defending guild decides to defend the relic. Be prepared to report any threats or offensive messages sent to your guild as that would be against TOS.

HCS, let us play within game rules. HCS, stop sending people threats of suspension or termination for playing within game rules. The people being hit have the options to defend themselves as listed above within game mechanics. I'm waiting for a response from the cows on this topic to decide if the Christmas offer is something I want or just a big lump of coal.


+1

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#730 Maehdros

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 00:58

Here's hoping for at least some sort of comment or feedback on this thread and what it entails sometimes tomorrow from HCS.... 50 pages and counting... holy be jeezuz Oo

#731 vtpitbull

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 01:02

you were contacted well before the 9 captures of the relic? and it didn't stop?
and you say , oh why bother


Did you contact me? No. Jinks is the only one in your guild that I had ANY discussion with, and we had a very civil conversation about what we could do because we both agreed that everything that was happening benefited neither guild. I did receive 1 other offline message from your guild founder but that was after the war had began and he was offline after that, which is why Jinks contacted me about working towards a solution.


Ever stop to think that perhaps at the start of all of this you were not the founder?

#732 Katreena

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 01:04

As that key is still lost, posting the following for Stang:



StangValle says: Relics are free game to anybody in Fallen Sword. In some cases there is alot of guild resources tied into them such as the gold costs for empowering or the stamina used to return to a relic. Not to mention stam used to keep a lead defender buffed.

There are many options within game mechanics to defend a relic as mentioned above but also including direct PVP. There are also many options to defend against that PVP.
Players who are being hit for an act of aggression can place a bounty which in most cases will cause the attacker to lose more XP then they took. A ten stam clear on the bounty board is pretty much equal to 2 100 stam attacks off the bounty board. Players also have the option to lock their XP through the upgrades section for 25 fsp. That makes them immune from losing a large amount of XP through direct PVP.
These are all part of the game mechanics put into the game for reasons like the one being discussed in this topic. Players are allowed to 100 stam hourly if they choose to. Players are not allowed to threaten another player as that is deemed harrasment.
HCS needs to let us play by the game rules. There are options for players being PVP'ed in game already. If a guild decides to take a relic be prepared to fight for it since so much is put into trying to hold a relic. Be prepared for whatever way the defending guild decides to defend the relic. Be prepared to report any threats or offensive messages sent to your guild as that would be against TOS.

HCS, let us play within game rules. HCS, stop sending people threats of suspension or termination for playing within game rules. The people being hit have the options to defend themselves as listed above within game mechanics. I'm waiting for a response from the cows on this topic to decide if the Christmas offer is something I want or just a big lump of coal.



+1 :D

#733 vtpitbull

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 01:07

to say no attempt at reconciliation was made is total BS


I received no PMs "attempting" to reconcile anything in this instance.


Are you honestly going to sit here and stand behind that comment?

21:16 25/Nov/2010
[ Report | Ignore ] evfisher says: And I did compromise. I told you right from the start, LV would only be there a couple of weeks. You refused to compromise. [ Reply | Trade | ST | Buff ]

That was when I mentioned to you we needed to find a compromise.

#734 fs_phyrstormz

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 01:11

hmmm :roll:

#735 vtpitbull

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 01:15

Mine to you Evfisher:

21:08 25/Nov/2010 To evfisher: Unfortunately we both know what would cause it all to end. Yet one side is unwilling to make a compromise. FFS, AL and TEW all have set a past precedent of laying down 100 stam hits one just one guild. HCS did absolutely nothing to a single member in any of those guilds. I was in AL but did not participate that time. So I well aware of how and what happened. I myself have also submitted a ticket explaining that past action....remember this was an action that essentially destroyed Panic. It was much more viscous. 3 guilds doing it on one. Every member of the guild has been told not to contact any of you for any reason....things got out of hand on those and for that I am honestly sorry. No one should have been gloating or calling any of you out if they did. I do know Jinks posted a mass message to end the attacks because he was in communication with your founder over a possible solution. Hopefully something can be worked out on that front. I have posted in chat fair solutions for both guilds...mentioning to them many times a solution is a compromise by both involved that both can live with. So hopefully my guild mates will not be totally unfair in what they'd like to see happen. I'd love to find a peaceful solution I just know what you all want isn't going to happen.

21:21 25/Nov/2010 To evfisher: Sorry Evfisher, allowing LV to keep taking the relic as he feels fit for a week and half? Thats no compromise. Thats a sit there...be quiet and if your good he wont come back. Your level headed enough to see that.

22:31 25/Nov/2010 To evfisher: The Relic is included in the ceasefire....one would assume its off limits while a resolution is in order....again not everything is going to be in your favor. On a brighter note....I do hope you enjoyed Tday with the family. :)

06:35 25/Nov/2010 To evfisher: Well...honestly? You are absolutely in the wrong as well. You removed your bio's and your guild page relic wording. Why? because it can be taken as throwing it in other guilds faces. HCS would see that as incite full as well. You guys have never once looked at it from the view of the other guilds involved. As far as HCS considering this a PvP/Relic war? They didn't view it as one when Panic was taking Relics and FFS, AL and TEW ALL were hitting Panic non-stop with 100 stam hits. To defend their Relics. Don't make the mistake of thinking I am asking if your willing to find a way out of this because we are tired of it. Pandie? I've actually come to like. Though I have little issue continuing. I have my Top 10 crystal. Levels honestly don't mean all that much anymore. If you have a player level past the Relic, then decide to return just to keep going after the Relic for fun for 3 weeks? Your going to always have issues.

06:18 25/Nov/2010 To evfisher: Hello, I'm curious if your interested in finding a mutual way out of this. If not, no hard feelings on my part.

#736 vtpitbull

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 01:18

05:50 25/Nov/2010 To pandie: No Pandie, we are not. If you were to come in force and stake claim to the Relic then it would be an outright relic war. The one who tired of it first usually walks away. You need to understand. I have mentioned many times. I fully understand we are going to lose the relic when someone is hunting through the area and decides to make a group to take it. So be it...I made that point clear to the guild early on. We assume it will happen and go on with little fan fair about it. Heck I am usually candid with who ever captures it. As I said before when a hunter captured it while I was in his PvP range and he had 6mil gold on him. I jokingly messaged him that the gold was looking yummy. We chatted, he asked if I would hold off till he was done hunting and I readily agreed. He had empowered it 3%. What you need to understand. When you guys flaunt your relic beliefs and policy in your bio's for all to read as if its a badge of honor, take the relic just to take it. Then return to the area after the hunt just to sit there for 3 weeks recovering stam and to continue to keep taking it with little to no honest desire to try and keep it. It's going to be perceived as harassment. Regardless if you feel that is what it is. Its not a Relic war because you guys just don't care to stake a claim to this one. I have decided to hold off on PvP prestige gathering right now. You guys lost a player who was willing to stand up for herself and her guild. How many more will you potentially lose? Being a leveling guild and all. I am open to dialog to help clean up this mess we all created. We both are steadfast in our beliefs of what is going on so it may not be easy. Though I am willing, I am not a council member of WAL but I do have a decent voice in the guild.

#737 fs_phyrstormz

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 01:22

For someone who was never contacted, thats a hell of a lot of chat......

#738 vtpitbull

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 01:23

We can keep throwing stones Ev....but I would assume since you and I had civil chats...you would not come on here and out right lie. Am I wrong?

#739 Mzzery

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 01:36

Let's see... it costs....

50,000 gold - Empower level 1
100,000 - Empower level 2
150,000 - Empower level 3
200,000 - Empower level 4
250,000 - Empower level 5
300,000 - Empower level 6
350,000 - Empower level 7
400,000 - Empower level 8
750,000 - Empower level 9
1000,000 - Empower level 10

If you don't fail once, it is a grand total of 3,550,000 gold (unless my brain is completely offline, which it might be). It's rarely possible to get to 10 without any fails, and once you fail it resets back to 0, so it sometimes costs 10,000,000 gold or more to empower a relic.

If someone gold hits you, you rarely lose that much.

A 10 stam hit ingame takes about as much xp as 1-1,5 creature kills give you during a hunt, or 1-2% of a level.
A 100 stam hit takes a maximum of 10% of a level.

The xp loss is doubled on the bounty board.

We can all xp lock so pvp don't affect us, unless we get bountied. It costs 25 FSP to do so.
25 FSP can also be translated into 625 stamina, if you chose to buy stamina for it instead.

625 stamina.... you get about a quarter of a level with that in my range.

10,000,000 gold.... you can sell gold in the market place, for say 150,000 gold on average, for 1 FSP. That's about 67 FSP. 67 FSP gives 1,675 stamina, if you use it on the stamina upgrade. That is 1,050 stamina more than an xp lock equals.

Why would it be against the rules to defend that relic-investment, when it is so much cheaper for the ones that keep taking it to xp lock into immunity from pvp, while it is alright to repeatedly take a relic and cause that much damage to that guild's relic investment?

Also.... you can bounty someone when they pvp you, but you can't bounty someone for taking a relic, eventhough the loss of an empowered relic usually hits a guild much harder than pvp ever could, and there really is no way to defend against it with "relic lock", like there is with xp lock against pvp.

Maybe I ranted a bit much, but if 1 out of every 10 who read it understands what I mean, I'll be happy... lol

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#740 fs_ogrvity

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 01:41

We can keep throwing stones Ev....but I would assume since you and I had civil chats...you would not come on here and out right lie. Am I wrong?


And after all of that work cutting and pasting you missed the the whole point.

I received no PMs "attempting" to reconcile anything in this instance.


Telling someone to leave our relic immediately or war will be brought to you by WAL and other guilds that we have at our discretion is not attempting to reconcile anything.


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