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This is how you Fix PvP - Proposal updated


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Poll: Does this system appeal to you? (113 member(s) have cast votes)

Does this system appeal to you?

  1. Voted Yes (66 votes [58.41%])

    Percentage of vote: 58.41%

  2. Voted No (34 votes [30.09%])

    Percentage of vote: 30.09%

  3. Voted Some parts do (explain) (13 votes [11.50%])

    Percentage of vote: 11.50%

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#1 fs_gravely

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Posted 06 December 2010 - 18:18

This will be my last attempt.

Here is a comprehensive system to balance PVP as much as possible between all competing interests - the hardcore pvper, the casual interested rating hound, and the leveler.

HITS

There will be two ranges. The old +/- 10 level range (and +/-5 for sub level 200) and the bracket range.

There will also be the new hit range - the ability to hit up and down the entire length of the bracket.

Only players who are on the ladder of a given bracket will have access to this range, and they will only be able to target other players on the ladder with that range.

ALL attacks will cause EXP loss, dependent on stamina and EXP locks.

ALL attacks will be bountyable as per current mechanics. This of course excludes GvG.

RATING

Gloat will be removed.

Honor will be removed, but the rating gain of all attacks will be reduced.

Updated: Rating Exchange In Combat

Option 1 - Floors and Ceilings (this most closely represents previous systems in place in the game)

A 100 stam hit will grant 50 rating at maximum, 10 at minimum, depending on rating difference.

A 10 stam hit will grant 10 rating maximum, 1 rating at minimum, depending on rating difference. Rating floors (+/- 300 rating) will be enforced such that if a player has 300 less rating than you, they cannot be defeated for further rating gain.

If a player has 300 more rating than you, you cannot gain rating from them for any reason.

Option 2 - Similarity Indexes

Credit to leos3000 and Khanate, both of whom have proposed this system or very similar ones:

People who have The same exact rating would have the biggest transfers when competing. (30 points per hit)

People + or - 100 points of each other would be in the next transfer range (20 points per hit)

Next would be + or - 101-250 points (10 points per hit)

Last would be + or - 251-500 points (this would be the smallest transfer of points 5 per hit)

If a person is + or - more then 500 points from their target they get 0 points, meaning it doesnt matter if they have a rating of 1000 or a rating of 1501, there is no transfer.


Note that both systems have pros and cons, but in the final analysis either one would be acceptable.

Floors have an advantage of limiting farming, period.

Similarity Indexes have the major advantage of allowing anyone to combat anyone they choose for rating exchange, up to a point.

Ladders

Ladders will be reduced to 25 players post level 400.

The top 5 will be awarded 2 tokens, and 1st through 3rd will be awarded 8 for 1st place, 5 for 2nd place and 3 for 3rd place.

In order to appear on the ladder, you must successfully initiate a combat and win. Players will no longer appear on the ladder as a result of being attacked, whether they win the combat or not.


EDIT:

The top 10 will be awarded a broken token. Almost no range has enough activity to support awarding the entire ladder. (Updated 12/30/10)

Bounty Board

The board will generate 3 rating per win versus at target at maximum with 10 stam, scaling down to 1 rating as appropriate for greater rating differences. 100 stams would generate between 1 and 10 rating exchange.

Rating exchange will be increased to include rating transfer between the brackets immediately above and below the bracket the target inhabits (so if I am in the 500-599 range, I can exchange rating with the 400-499 range and the 600-699 range). A rating penalty of 1 rating per hit or 33% reduction, whichever is greater (for 100 stam hits) will be applied when engaged with the bracket immediately below yours. There is no upward bonus or penalty.

Further, ladder ranges will be re increased to 100 levels post level 500. This is to account for vastly smaller player populations at those level bands. Existing bracket sizes will remain for levels below 500.

#2 fs_avalbane

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Posted 06 December 2010 - 18:25

Ultimate fix. I love the idea, Grave. Now to get Hoof in here.

It has a general "fix" for everything that is wrong, and cuts down the trading just about completely.

#3 Kontiki

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Posted 06 December 2010 - 18:32

I like most of your suggestion, but a bit uncertain about:

If a player has more than 200 rating than you do, you cannot gain rating from them for any reason.

Why not..? And if not, what is the point of this:

Only players who are on the ladder of a given bracket will have access to this range, and they will only be able to target other players on the ladder with that range.



#4 Anemie

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Posted 06 December 2010 - 18:44

If a player has more than 200 rating than you do, you cannot gain rating from them for any reason.

Only this--I would increase it to 300-400,200 doesn't seem like huge difference...


Everything else seems great--even the broken token :)

#5 RJEM

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Posted 06 December 2010 - 19:10

I assume Gravely meant to say 200 rating LESS than you do - to prevent farming.

Is the ladder opt in only, with normal PvP as it once was outside of that?

#6 Anemie

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Posted 06 December 2010 - 19:15

I assume Gravely meant to say 200 rating LESS than you do - to prevent farming.

Is the ladder opt in only, with normal PvP as it once was outside of that?

Ahh,don't mind that-it could actually work both ways-but still not 200--300 is better,especially due to lack of targets in some ranges..

#7 fs_theggold

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Posted 06 December 2010 - 19:20

[quote name="Gravely"]This will be my last attempt.

Here is a comprehensive system to balance PVP as much as possible between all competing interests - the hardcore pvper, the casual interested rating hound, and the leveler.

HITS

There will be two ranges. The old +/- 10 level range (and +/-5 for sub level 200) and the bracket range.
[quote]What do you mean by "sub level"?[/quote]
There will also be the new hit range - the ability to hit up and down the entire length of the bracket.

Only players who are on the ladder of a given bracket will have access to this range, and they will only be able to target other players on the ladder with that range.
[quote]Good idea, stops levelers getting pounded.[/quote]

ALL attacks will cause EXP loss, dependent on stamina and EXP locks.
[quote]Agreed, if you can hit someone they should loose exp.[/quote]
ALL attacks will be bountyable.
[quote]Except GvG, good idea.[/quote]
RATING

Gloat will be removed.
[quote]+1[/quote]
Honor will be removed, but the rating gain of all attacks will be reduced.
[quote]+1 else it just rewards you for constantly buying it and being online to do so.[/quote]
A 100 stam hit will grant 25 rating at maximum, 5 at minimum, depending on rating difference.
[quote]+1[/quote]
A 10 stam hit will grant 5 rating maximum, 1 rating at minimum, depending on rating difference. Rating floors (+/- 200 rating) will be enforced such that if a player has 200 less rating than you, they cannot be defeated for further rating gain.
[quote]Agreed, puts a good end to the multis.[/quote]
If a player has more than 200 rating than you do, you cannot gain rating from them for any reason.
[quote]Agreed for the most part.[/quote]
Ladders

Ladders will be reduced to 25 players post level 400.
[quote]Good[/quote]
The top 10 will be awarded 1 token, the top 5 will be awarded 2 tokens, and 1st through 3rd will be awarded as they are now.
[quote]Seems fair[/quote]
The top 25 will be awarded a broken token. So many broken tokens will be redeemable for 1 token.
[quote]I like the idea.[/quote]
[/quote]

#8 Leos3000

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Posted 06 December 2010 - 19:23

Grave most of your idea are ok, I do like being able to hit everyone in the braket regardless of being on the ladder, mainly because for our bracket there is no one to hit otherwise(1/2 the people with positive rating are in my guild so I can't hit them :twisted: ) also I think this system for pvp point transfer would be pretty fair for all.

Instead of having the cutoff's in place for the person who has a higher rating have them go in both directions.

People who have The same exact rating would have the biggest transfers when competing. (30 points per hit)

People + or - 100 points of each other would be in the next transfer range (20 points per hit)

Next would be + or - 101-250 points (10 points per hit)

Last would be + or - 251-500 points (this would be the smallest transfer of points 5 per hit)

If a person is + or - more then 500 points from their target they get 0 points, meaning it doesnt matter if they have a rating of 1000 or a rating of 1501, there is no transfer.

#9 fs_mrwright

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Posted 06 December 2010 - 19:48

I don't particularly agree with removing honor and gloat (even though I don't use either), but the rest of this I agree with....since I proposed we do this 11 months ago :lol:

#10 maxvam

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Posted 06 December 2010 - 19:58

i can accept anything except xp loss.. as simply xp loss is not dominance. :)

#11 Maehdros

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Posted 06 December 2010 - 20:03

i can accept anything except xp loss.. as simply xp loss is not dominance. :)




you prefer to hit players with no risk? How is that dominant?

#12 EvilLyn

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Posted 06 December 2010 - 20:17

i like it in general, i dont think gloat and honor should be removed though.

Just want to clarify the 200 rating difference.... so this means if number one has 1400, i have 1000, i have to actually pvp a bit before i can take them on? if so i really really like that idea.

#13 RJEM

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Posted 06 December 2010 - 20:31

i like it in general, i dont think gloat and honor should be removed though.

Just want to clarify the 200 rating difference.... so this means if number one has 1400, i have 1000, i have to actually pvp a bit before i can take them on? if so i really really like that idea.


Again, speaking for Gravely, I think the original idea was only to cap it downwards - the 1000 can hit the 1400 for up to 25 rating, but the 1400 hitting down would get 0.

Essentially you are free to take on the best (without gloating them for 200 points or something equally ridiculous) but the so called *best* who have inhabited previous incarnations of the ladder can't just PvP 1000 rating players for 1 or 2 points each time to move on upwards.

#14 abhorrence

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Posted 06 December 2010 - 20:33

i can accept anything except xp loss.. as simply xp loss is not dominance. :)


You aren't understanding the intricacies of pvp dominance if you are not willing to take into account exp loss. Exp loss has ALWAYS been a huge part of PvP and having any sort of dominance measured with out including it would not be accurate system. PERIOD

#15 aa0007

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Posted 06 December 2010 - 20:41

love the idea, hopefully hoof will listen to the community this time :)

#16 abhorrence

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Posted 06 December 2010 - 20:42

Since I like a lot of what you have said I will only comment on things I slightly disagree with.


This will be my last attempt.

Here is a comprehensive system to balance PVP as much as possible between all competing interests - the hardcore pvper, the casual interested rating hound, and the leveler.

HITS

I enjoy having the entire bracket to hit. As such I agree with people being out of my +-10 not losing exp.

RATING

If a player has more than 200 rating than you do, you cannot gain rating from them for any reason.

If this were the case I would like to see the 200 rating increased at least slightly(25-50%).

Ladders

Ladders will be reduced to 25 players post level 400.

The ladder should include 50 people as it does now

The top 10 will be awarded 1 token, the top 5 will be awarded 2 tokens, and 1st through 3rd will be awarded as they are now.

The top 25 will be awarded a broken token. So many broken tokens will be redeemable for 1 token.
No broken tokens either give them 1 or don't bother or increase the cost of items so that 1 token has the value of a broken token.



#17 RJEM

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Posted 06 December 2010 - 20:44

Hor - above 400 there is no point having 50 player ladders - there are not 50 active PvPers in each 100 level range. Also, you'd be giving tokens to people who appeared on that ladder for losing. I still think this may be the case at higher levels even with the reduced ladder being suggested.

Edit: 14 in my 100 level band as of right now!

#18 MaximusGR

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Posted 06 December 2010 - 20:51

What RJEM is saying i second. In the 700s there are barely 20 people that usually have more than 1K rating..Therefore rewarding should be down to perhaps the top 10 at most.

Another thought i had as i was going through Grave's post is frequency of ladder resets..Perhaps have it reset somewhere around once every 24 hours or so, which would mean that it 'd be more a matter of activity and constant effort to come on top of the ladder every time.

I think the whole suggestion would work well if implememented, definitely worth being looked at by Hoof&Co

#19 abhorrence

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Posted 06 December 2010 - 20:52

Hor - above 400 there is no point having 50 player ladders - there are not 50 active PvPers in each 100 level range. Also, you'd be giving tokens to people who appeared on that ladder for losing. I still think this may be the case at higher levels even with the reduced ladder being suggested.

Edit: 14 in my 100 level band as of right now!



Being on the ladder doesn't award you anything. It only shows people there. You need to finish in the top to be awarded. There is no reason to exclude the 25 people that are in spots 26-50. Just because they aren't relevant now, doesn't mean they won't be needed in the future. If you think of the game as growing then the upper levels will have steadily more and more players in them.

#20 abhorrence

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Posted 06 December 2010 - 20:54

What RJEM is saying i second. In the 700s there are barely 20 people that usually have more than 1K rating..Therefore rewarding should be down to perhaps the top 10 at most.


Silly boys. Look to the future.

Lack of planning for future advancements has been the down fall of many of HCS basic implemented mechanics. Please do not follow suit.


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