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Prestige Trading's Ugly Face Is Back


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Poll: How to fix Prestige Trading. How to fix it? (94 member(s) have cast votes)

How to fix Prestige Trading. How to fix it?

  1. Voted Allow xp, gold, and rating to be taken from anyone within your band (32 votes [34.04%])

    Percentage of vote: 34.04%

  2. Voted Allow only rating to be gained within your band outside +/- 10 levels, not Prestige (23 votes [24.47%])

    Percentage of vote: 24.47%

  3. Voted It's fine the way it is. (39 votes [41.49%])

    Percentage of vote: 41.49%

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#81 C4RPY

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Posted 23 December 2010 - 07:01

Haven't took time to read the whole thread but going from the title I can clarify with a PM I wake upto today that people have started or are trying to trade tut tut...

PXXXXboo says: Hi, wondering if you are interested in trading prestige, ive got a pretty good sized list going of end to near end of content players going that are willing to trade 10 stamina hits, all assuming that you are more than 10 levels away from them... I can give you the list if you are interested as well. Let me know - thanks

#82 abhorrence

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Posted 23 December 2010 - 07:40

Haven't took time to read the whole thread but going from the title I can clarify with a PM I wake upto today that people have started or are trying to trade tut tut...

PXXXXboo says: Hi, wondering if you are interested in trading prestige, ive got a pretty good sized list going of end to near end of content players going that are willing to trade 10 stamina hits, all assuming that you are more than 10 levels away from them... I can give you the list if you are interested as well. Let me know - thanks


Dang would have liked to see that list. You should have asked for it.

#83 C4RPY

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Posted 23 December 2010 - 08:02

lol.... yes.. would be nice.. not sure he will give it up though now I havew started hitting D'oH!

#84 sweetlou

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Posted 23 December 2010 - 08:10

It's not difficult to see who is exploiting the flaw in the new band system now that Hoof added the everyone's Prestige points to bios. Couple that with players who never see the BB and the offender is easy to catch.

Xp, gold and rating need to be at risk whenever PvP occurs to achieve Prestige. If not, might as well give out Prestige for GvG winning attacks then.

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#85 Removed22342

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Posted 23 December 2010 - 10:58

Some characters want to get things for free I suppose. I think things were starting to look reasonable good until they decided to "listen" and fix the dominance medal and things were implemented in a way that re-introduced this possibility to trade hits for 10% prestige or rating. I think they need to remove the no-xp/no-gold loss within your whole PvP band.

Even if some people still would trade hits for that 1% it's a lot better than it is right now. And XP/Gold loss can be an incentive for people to actually take action against hitters and make it a gamble for those doing the hitting, as it should be imo.

#86 Maehdros

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Posted 23 December 2010 - 12:05

Some characters want to get things for free I suppose. I think things were starting to look reasonable good until they decided to "listen" and fix the dominance medal and things were implemented in a way that re-introduced this possibility to trade hits for 10% prestige or rating. I think they need to remove the no-xp/no-gold loss within your whole PvP band.

Even if some people still would trade hits for that 1% it's a lot better than it is right now. And XP/Gold loss can be an incentive for people to actually take action against hitters and make it a gamble for those doing the hitting, as it should be imo.




+1 that pretty much says it all. It would be interesting to see how many players trade prestige, rating..whatever... when there is more RISK to it. Risk free prestige is a joke. Please fix it.

#87 Bleltch

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Posted 23 December 2010 - 12:25

I think this is how hoof pictures pvp is supposed to be. An easier, gentler version of pvp. Screw it that trading and exploitation run rampant, he has a caddy payment to make.

#88 fs_coyotik

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Posted 23 December 2010 - 14:20

I think this is how hoof pictures pvp is supposed to be. An easier, gentler version of pvp. Screw it that trading and exploitation run rampant, he has a caddy payment to make.


I think Hoof doesn't give a damn. I think that when implementing those PvP changes, he didn't think about PvP prestige at all, either he forgot that it would be affected or he just doesn't care.

If he really wanted to stop the trading and abuse, he could have changed the buff effect ages ago, I'm telling him about it on every opportunity...

#89 Gooner111

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Posted 23 December 2010 - 14:43

I would agree with no 1 if I could bounty my attacker for EVERY attack not just the first attack. Lets say someone attacks you hourly while offline why can you only bounty them once for it?

I wouldn't mind if gold loss was applied to the entire band. I think most pvpers are more interested in the gold they gain over the loss of xp suffered by their victims so to me a sensible compromise would be to allow gold loss over the band but no xp loss. But that doesn't solve the prestige issue.

As for prestige I don't know why it was brought in but it seems to be a constant issue. From what I have seen of pvp players most claim to have no interest in their levels and don't really care about prestige - just don't like to see non-pvpers trade it. Not sure who suggested it but read somewhere (poss here) that rather than an xp buff make it a pvp buff instead. I like that idea. What about limiting prestige to the bounty board? Players would have to work hard to earn prestige then and this would most likely rule out non-pvpers because of the effort & stam it would take to get the 10% bonus.

#90 celendais

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Posted 23 December 2010 - 17:03

have everything like before tokens : prestige, gold , xp .

Then add opt-in OR opt-out to run for the ladder and have 50 levels range there where xp/gold and prestige are exhanged too.

For levelrs: everything goes back to pre-tokens= very soft, only risk the occasional gold hit which you should know how to protect against

For pvp-ers: washes out the softies and lets stomp for rating and token.

#91 sweetlou

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Posted 23 December 2010 - 21:43

I would agree with no 1 if I could bounty my attacker for EVERY attack not just the first attack. Lets say someone attacks you hourly while offline why can you only bounty them once for it?

This is the typical request from players that can't/don't want to have their guild/allies dole out dropping someone 5 levels, the ultimate punishment. Where a guildmate, or ally puts their stam and xp on the line for you and you do the same for them.

I am glad you like #1, I just don't like the condition by which you would like it. Let me explain why not every attack is or should be bountyable. A player who attacks hourly, who must currently be within +/- 10 levels, takes roughly 10% of a level/100 stam each attack. It would take more then two days of hourly attacks, not missing a single hour, to do the same xp damage(losing 5) which can be done in as little as 20 minutes on the BB by 3 players from any level.

This is not bullying or any other derogatory term. This is about protecting your guildmate/friend/ally and nothing more. Players that don't have the stones to protect others want a swifter, easier method of punishment such as being able to bounty every attack. Might as well return to when there was no 5 level limit as long as you had the hitters.

So I digress back to the topic. This softer, risk free PvP needs to be stopped. All attacks need to take xp, gold and rating in order to earn Prestige. Players need to lose something to create a risk. As I see it the Prestige bonus was added to compensate players losing xp. If your trading Prestige and thereby never on the BB what business do you have getting something for nothing? You don't have any and it insults those of us that EARN what we receive.

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#92 Placeboo

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Posted 23 December 2010 - 23:36

Im fine people pvping as long as they stay away from me - however in this system I (and everyone else) is forced into pvp.
If im going to incur losses from that then at least prestige is there to offset some of the loss that people that have no interest in pvp incur.

My 2 cents.

#93 C4RPY

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Posted 24 December 2010 - 07:47

Im fine people pvping as long as they stay away from me


that's laughable coming from someone that has been trading PvP hits for presitge... then when I put the proof in my bio you go and get it reported so you are not 'ratted' out lol.... too funny!!!


:roll:

#94 fs_coyotik

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Posted 24 December 2010 - 13:40

I would agree with no 1 if I could bounty my attacker for EVERY attack not just the first attack. Lets say someone attacks you hourly while offline why can you only bounty them once for it?

This is the typical request from players that can't/don't want to have their guild/allies dole out dropping someone 5 levels, the ultimate punishment. Where a guildmate, or ally puts their stam and xp on the line for you and you do the same for them.


This request is actually quite sensible. Each attack should be punishable, there's absolutely no logical reason why not. And if you think that 5 levels are too much for one attack, I don't have a problem in reducing that number greatly :).

Players that don't have the stones to protect others want a swifter, easier method of punishment such as being able to bounty every attack.


Again, there's no logical reason not to be able to do so. The retribution system SHOULD give room for differentiation. It should prevent over-retribution where one can lose 5 levels even for 10 stam attack, but it should allow very adequate retribution.

One of the biggest flaws of the current system is the VL nonsense. Before it was introduced, a single delevel was "worth it", because apart from the retribution itself, it also had a very strong protective effect. You could basically eliminate the threat in one go - if somebody annoyed you with repeated attacks, all you had to do was just one delevel, max two delevels, and you were in the clear.

Today, the only way to get out of the attacker's range is to level up - and with the range being 10 levels, that's about 2-3 weeks of stamina (depending on upgrades and creeps and player level). In the mean time, the only defense you have is to further your loss by purchasing protection/xp lock - and to get the attacker out of range would mean reducing him to about half his current level or below (to give you a good chance to survive offline atacks).

And one more important thing - for most levellers, stamina and XP are a very precious commodity. If you're competing in your monthly top or total ladders, getting involved in a delevel party is not a nice proposition. Odds are that whoever is bullying your friends will bring HIS friends to the party and you can then end up losing 5 yourself. In an environment, where your success on the XP ladder is measured by a CA level saved here and there, resulting in gains in the 0.1 level range, losing even 1 full level, let alone 5, is a huge setback, for most people not worth the risk - so many people depend on EOC folks who overflow anyway and on old friends who do not actively play to participate in the retributions.

Yes, it's easy to wave the flag of "get your friends to go for a delevel" around when you're in a guild full of PvPers :). Yes, there are several non-PvP guilds that protect their members with ferocity, but I bet that for the majority of those 50k or so users out there, finding friends for a full delevel is not an easy option.

I would very much like to see a few changes:
1) VL removed. It's not needed as it's primary purpose of protecting lower levels against levelup-points advantage of a highlevel player who is getting massively delevelled can be easily achieved by other means.

2) Each off-board attack bountiable, with the XP loss maximum of the bounty based on the attack strength, with great reduction of today's 5 levels. If a 10stam attack takes 0.01 of a level, "normal" bounty would take 10*2*0.1 = 0.2 of a level, 100stam attack could therefore take 2 levels maximum (but nobody would force the bounty cleaner(s) to take more than 0.2 level).
These numbers could be discussed/argued.

What I would like to see - when there's serious harassment (multiple 100stams) - to give the victim the ability to "solve" the issue quickly, allow the attacker to be beaten out of his range in one go (with a considerable effort).

On the other hand, a simple 10stam attack should NEVER have any BIG consequences. This would open up PvP to many people who currently don't want to risk their week's worth of levelling effort (because honestly, the risk of losing 5 for a single 10 stam is WAY too big).

3) PvP prestige should give PvP bonus (i.e. allow some enhancements to go over 100% for x hours). There's no reason why it should be a bonus that is of interest for anybody else than PvPers.

#95 shindrak

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Posted 24 December 2010 - 15:46

Well nice to see 2nd option i choosed applied for game... :)

#96 Removed22342

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Posted 24 December 2010 - 21:02

Each bounty means a chance to loose five levels. You have to hit on the hour for 50 hour straight (not counting deflects/defeats) to do as much damage. I think one bounty per hit is just they way people want it to be to be able to buy their retaliation.

#97 celendais

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Posted 25 December 2010 - 20:20

OP problem solved with latest update I think.

opt in for rating and the rest the same as pretokens. Rating hits taking XP and gold but only for those opting-in for the ladder.

fix prestige so 500 points= 1 hour boost . 8 hours boost is ridicoluous.

Rating hits within 10 levels only ( as would be consequence of every pvp hit being "risky)= will be kinda killing the ladder imho, I want to hit people that hit back, otherwise no fun.

and really best place for tokens or dominance is online fighting . not sneaking on people sleeping nor the cloak+deflect lottery. Combat pit ( with xp loss) = best place to really prove who is best and thus earned tokens.

#98 sweetlou

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Posted 25 December 2010 - 20:56

OP problem solved with latest update I think.

opt in for rating and the rest the same as pretokens. Rating hits taking XP and gold but only for those opting-in for the ladder.

fix prestige so 500 points= 1 hour boost . 8 hours boost is ridicoluous.

Rating hits within 10 levels only ( as would be consequence of every pvp hit being "risky)= will be kinda killing the ladder imho, I want to hit people that hit back, otherwise no fun.

Enough said.

I'm gonna disagree with you on a few points.

Yes Prestige trading was fixed. Great.

An opt-in isn't the answer. This will only pacify players who play half the game. There needs to be the same number of available targets for everyone to compete fairly. PvP rating exchange with little to no risk sucks. All attacks need to take/lose xp, making it risky. If that means at my level taking xp from anyone within my band, no problem. The number of players within +/- 10 for me currently is minuscule, maybe 15. Within my band it opens up to more like 50-75.

Bottom line is now that Prestige has been fixed, now rating needs the same attention. The only advantage against players who want to trade rating is that at least anyone can take that rating, even if there are no xp consequences. Xp loss is an integral component of PvP. Just because some players don't understand that xp isn't the yellow brick road it has been prophesized to be, there will always be a backlash against PvP. It is part of the game that must be accepted, that or now you can opt-out to play in a nutshell.

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#99 dowuones

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Posted 25 December 2010 - 22:46

Honestly i never undestood (probably im not so smart) why playing half, or a quarter or a tenth of game is wrong.
Its a game, everyone plays the aspects of the game they like, and give them fun. If someone likes one aspect, thats what he will play. Two, three, four aspects? Good. More fun. But i cant see the problem.
If you run 100m and you like it, is it a problem if you dont compete in Decathlon? Some will do it, others not. Its all Athletics.
If you play soccer and you like to be a goalkeeper, whats the problem if you dont kick penalties? Its all Soccer.
I dont know if an opt-in for the ladder would be good, but i dont see why not.
Six months ago when all these ladder updates started, was PvP working? As far as i can remember, yes. The problem was the ladder.
In six months i saw more forum fighting than in the past 2.5 years i played. I thought many times of what was the reason.
PvP has changed a lot (maybe too many times and it was a bit confusing):
Gold range was 10levels, Xp range 5 levels.
Now we have 20 levels of gold/xp. Probably is good, maybe not, but i dont see many problems with it.
The problem is the continous pushing for more PvP on one side and less PvP on the other side.
Every proposal for more pvp will generate more complains and more requests from the other side, and vice versa (an open 100 levels range generated a complete opt-out).
Its just a matter of balance, was PvP so unbalanced 6 months ago? I can remember complains in forum, honestly not at todays rate.
If the origin of today situation is the ladder, let people opt in (id say even an opt in for Prestige - prestige/preˈstiːʒ/
▶noun widespread respect and admiration attracted through a perception of high achievements or quality).
If it helps the game (or a good number of players), without hurting the others, why not.

Just a holiday thought, Merry Christmas all ;-)

#100 fs_coyotik

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Posted 26 December 2010 - 01:46

I dont know if an opt-in for the ladder would be good, but i dont see why not.
Six months ago when all these ladder updates started, was PvP working? As far as i can remember, yes. The problem was the ladder.


I agree with this. Opt-in for the ladder doesn't hurt/change the good old non-ladder PvP at all - and in my opinion, any kind of PvP dominance ladder SHOULD be based on PvPers directly competing with each other. The willingness/ability to farm the most rating points off people who have no interest in PvP, generally aren't buffed and geared for it (either because they wear stamgain stuff or because they defend a relic) doesn't show much about the PvPer's qualities.

Most other ladders are more or less opt-in, too, and competing on them doesn't affect non-competitors greatly.

But the best solution IMO would be to scrap the whole ladder nonsense. We already have bountyhunters ladder and we could have gold-theft ladder for classic PvP. Non-PvPers would have to spend some effort to avoid involvement, it could still come with bands to reflect varying number of available targets...


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