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IN GAME RELIC CONTROL ISSUE.


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#561 chryx

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Posted 26 January 2011 - 15:40

I think the problem of low level guild is that they are becoming to be the breeding ground for high level guilds nowadays , High level guild only accepts 421 level and above, no one will get players from scratch as in level 1, meaning this low level guild are equally important to FS world. They are the one who is helping FS to get new players and a possible addict of this game.

Now as i said these guilds help players from level 1 which top 10 guilds normally does not do, and when their player grow strong , its just a human thing that these people will look for better guild with nice relics to help them level faster, thus killing this low level guild in the process. And these high level guild unknowingly gets the benefits from these people that they did not work hard for. And if this continue, who will produce new players, is it the top 10 players ? nope these low level guild are the one doing it, so if they need help, then i think we must think twice if this is really valid concern or not. They also need high level players to stay with them, and they cant afford their players going to other guild because of the benefit of the relics, which in my case is true cause it helps me alot in 1-hitting those monsters.

I agree that there are no problems with the relic system now, besides that maybe they are so few compared to the ratio of guild that we have now, maybe an additional relic would be nice :P just a suggestion.

#562 Khanate

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Posted 26 January 2011 - 15:57

I think the problem of low level guild is that they are becoming to be the breeding ground for high level guilds nowadays , High level guild only accepts 421 level and above, no one will get players from scratch as in level 1, meaning this low level guild are equally important to FS world. They are the one who is helping FS to get new players and a possible addict of this game.

Now as i said these guilds help players from level 1 which top 10 guilds normally does not do, and when their player grow strong , its just a human thing that these people will look for better guild with nice relics to help them level faster, thus killing this low level guild in the process. And these high level guild unknowingly gets the benefits from these people that they did not work hard for. And if this continue, who will produce new players, is it the top 10 players ? nope these low level guild are the one doing it, so if they need help, then i think we must think twice if this is really valid concern or not. They also need high level players to stay with them, and they cant afford their players going to other guild because of the benefit of the relics, which in my case is true cause it helps me alot in 1-hitting those monsters.

I agree that there are no problems with the relic system now, besides that maybe they are so few compared to the ratio of guild that we have now, maybe an additional relic would be nice :P just a suggestion.


Maybe the problem is that these low level guilds which complain to get a relic will NEVER be able to afford empowering relics, that it isn't even worth it for them to walk to and back from the relic and that the relics give very good bonuses (which only very few people cared to cause a riot for them to be nerfed from 60% to 20% max). Is the problem really that a guild is forced to compete with people who actually can afford to empower the relic and have enough stamina to benefit from the relic?

#563 myakka

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Posted 26 January 2011 - 16:12

They removed the porn and put it back up, You guys have said your bit, now it's time to let others speak.

Let's hear from some players under level 200.


Which in other words means:
"Shut up you people who don't support my position
AND let's hear from somebody who maybe will."

[Sarcasm on] Clever counter-arguement. [/Sarcasm off]

#564 Davros81

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Posted 26 January 2011 - 16:34

This topic still going on, 38 pages no less blimey...? it was funny at 3 pages or whatever :roll:

#565 Removed22342

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Posted 26 January 2011 - 17:45

I didn't read this thread but all I gotta say is: REMOVE ALL RELICS !

"Did he really say remove? Oh my ... that's like, like crazy-talk."

#566 sweetlou

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Posted 26 January 2011 - 20:18

(which only very few people cared to cause a riot for them to be nerfed from 60% to 20% max)

Yes, it was easy to argue. 20% is still too much. The cost to empower should relate to how many players are in the guild, how many benefit. This lump sum price only favors the mega guilds with 100+ members.

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#567 fs_nthnclls

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Posted 26 January 2011 - 20:36

They removed the porn and put it back up, You guys have said your bit, now it's time to let others speak.

Let's hear from some players under level 200.


I'm 260, is that close enough? :roll:

#568 michael65

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Posted 26 January 2011 - 21:14

So many pages, it is hard to believe. I jumped to end of thread, so if i'm repeating something someone said i'm sorry.

To OP: The relics in FS are like the game King of the Mountain (Hill), where one kid takes the high ground and challenges others to remove him/her. Usually the biggest kid ends up taking the "Mountain" ("Hill") and holding it the longest. There is no wonder why "big" Guilds take and hold relics longer than "smaller" guilds. Your position suggest to me that you want your small Guild to be a big fish in a smaller pond. Keep up the Good Work, politicing in FS sometimes brings desired results.

#569 yotekiller

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Posted 26 January 2011 - 22:30

Oh good grief, is this still going on? OK, first a big +1 to CopyKitty's post. Next for the OP. You seem to want a relic handed to you on a silver platter because you are under the misconception that's how the big guilds got theirs but let's just say for arguments sake that's not what you want. What are you and your guild willing to do to get a relic? What are you and your guild willing to do to keep a relic once you have it?
Are you willing to continue taking a relic from another guild until they give up no matter how long and how much stamina it takes?
Are you willing to enforce a rule that every available member go back to your relic after every hunt no matter what their max stam is and no matter how long the walk is?
Are you willing to enforce a rule that all members provide and wear their own offline gear to maintain a proper defense because guild gear gets recalled too often?
Are you willing to get into a pvp war where lots of stam and lots of levels are lost in order to get or keep a relic?
If you answered no to any of these questions then you are not prepared to get and keep a relic for the long term. If you answered yes to all of them the next question is are all of your guild members also willing to make these sacrifices with you? If they are not, you will lose members because of the travel and you will lose members because of the pvp. That's just the way it is.
Anyone involved in the Great Relic Wars of 2010 as I like to call them can tell you that saying it was not pretty is a big understatement. Friendships were lost and guilds were changed forever. Massive amounts of stam was burned in pvp and a ton of levels were lost. I saw one high level player lose 46 levels in less than 24 hours. Are you and your guild members also willing to make that kind of sacrifice for a relic?
Before you go bashing the big guilds for the relics they have, you should at least try to understand the sacrifices they have made to get them and keep them.

#570 Khanate

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Posted 26 January 2011 - 22:39

(which only very few people cared to cause a riot for them to be nerfed from 60% to 20% max)

Yes, it was easy to argue. 20% is still too much. The cost to empower should relate to how many players are in the guild, how many benefit. This lump sum price only favors the mega guilds with 100+ members.


Agreed on both counts. Should be taken down to 6% and empower cost should be on a linear growth with a fixed base cost.

#571 Khanate

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Posted 26 January 2011 - 22:39

Oh good grief, is this still going on? OK, first a big +1 to CopyKitty's post. Next for the OP. You seem to want a relic handed to you on a silver platter because you are under the misconception that's how the big guilds got theirs but let's just say for arguments sake that's not what you want. What are you and your guild willing to do to get a relic? What are you and your guild willing to do to keep a relic once you have it?
Are you willing to continue taking a relic from another guild until they give up no matter how long and how much stamina it takes?
Are you willing to enforce a rule that every available member go back to your relic after every hunt no matter what their max stam is and no matter how long the walk is?
Are you willing to enforce a rule that all members provide and wear their own offline gear to maintain a proper defense because guild gear gets recalled too often?
Are you willing to get into a pvp war where lots of stam and lots of levels are lost in order to get or keep a relic?
If you answered no to any of these questions then you are not prepared to get and keep a relic for the long term. If you answered yes to all of them the next question is are all of your guild members also willing to make these sacrifices with you? If they are not, you will lose members because of the travel and you will lose members because of the pvp. That's just the way it is.
Anyone involved in the Great Relic Wars of 2010 as I like to call them can tell you that saying it was not pretty is a big understatement. Friendships were lost and guilds were changed forever. Massive amounts of stam was burned in pvp and a ton of levels were lost. I saw one high level player lose 46 levels in less than 24 hours. Are you and your guild members also willing to make that kind of sacrifice for a relic?
Before you go bashing the big guilds for the relics they have, you should at least try to understand the sacrifices they have made to get them and keep them.


Good post.

#572 Freyana

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Posted 26 January 2011 - 23:14

Oh good grief, is this still going on? OK, first a big +1 to CopyKitty's post. Next for the OP. You seem to want a relic handed to you on a silver platter because you are under the misconception that's how the big guilds got theirs but let's just say for arguments sake that's not what you want. What are you and your guild willing to do to get a relic? What are you and your guild willing to do to keep a relic once you have it?
Are you willing to continue taking a relic from another guild until they give up no matter how long and how much stamina it takes?
Are you willing to enforce a rule that every available member go back to your relic after every hunt no matter what their max stam is and no matter how long the walk is?
Are you willing to enforce a rule that all members provide and wear their own offline gear to maintain a proper defense because guild gear gets recalled too often?
Are you willing to get into a pvp war where lots of stam and lots of levels are lost in order to get or keep a relic?
If you answered no to any of these questions then you are not prepared to get and keep a relic for the long term. If you answered yes to all of them the next question is are all of your guild members also willing to make these sacrifices with you? If they are not, you will lose members because of the travel and you will lose members because of the pvp. That's just the way it is.
Anyone involved in the Great Relic Wars of 2010 as I like to call them can tell you that saying it was not pretty is a big understatement. Friendships were lost and guilds were changed forever. Massive amounts of stam was burned in pvp and a ton of levels were lost. I saw one high level player lose 46 levels in less than 24 hours. Are you and your guild members also willing to make that kind of sacrifice for a relic?
Before you go bashing the big guilds for the relics they have, you should at least try to understand the sacrifices they have made to get them and keep them.

Perfect post. I completely agree

#573 fs_azkasha

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Posted 26 January 2011 - 23:53

Oh good grief, is this still going on? OK, first a big +1 to CopyKitty's post. Next for the OP. You seem to want a relic handed to you on a silver platter because you are under the misconception that's how the big guilds got theirs but let's just say for arguments sake that's not what you want. What are you and your guild willing to do to get a relic? What are you and your guild willing to do to keep a relic once you have it?
Are you willing to continue taking a relic from another guild until they give up no matter how long and how much stamina it takes?
Are you willing to enforce a rule that every available member go back to your relic after every hunt no matter what their max stam is and no matter how long the walk is?
Are you willing to enforce a rule that all members provide and wear their own offline gear to maintain a proper defense because guild gear gets recalled too often?
Are you willing to get into a pvp war where lots of stam and lots of levels are lost in order to get or keep a relic?
If you answered no to any of these questions then you are not prepared to get and keep a relic for the long term. If you answered yes to all of them the next question is are all of your guild members also willing to make these sacrifices with you? If they are not, you will lose members because of the travel and you will lose members because of the pvp. That's just the way it is.
Anyone involved in the Great Relic Wars of 2010 as I like to call them can tell you that saying it was not pretty is a big understatement. Friendships were lost and guilds were changed forever. Massive amounts of stam was burned in pvp and a ton of levels were lost. I saw one high level player lose 46 levels in less than 24 hours. Are you and your guild members also willing to make that kind of sacrifice for a relic?
Before you go bashing the big guilds for the relics they have, you should at least try to understand the sacrifices they have made to get them and keep them.


+3

#574 fs_cpt0bvious

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Posted 27 January 2011 - 04:08

I'm not reading all begillion pages. I'll however make this short and sweet. Relics have been an aspect of the game for a long time, with fundamental changes made along the way... but this isn't an instance where putting a 'band' on what levels can take what is in any way, shape or form a good idea... or realistic. PVP Bands make some sense, but relics? Come on, don't drown in your sorrows of jealously or being mad at those who can take them and defend them. There's 3 pages of Relics, this shouldn't be an issue...period.

/End rant.

#575 BZRNRG360

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Posted 27 January 2011 - 04:46

I'm on page 17, so if what I say has been stated already... w/e.

Hmm,,In GvG and PvP--I did both(and I'm currently PvP-ing without them)-They help-sometimes a lot,but they will not make you a better player,,,Those that know how to play whit relic bonus surely know how to play without it...

As for lower level players-why would they even need relics-I leveled to 85 in plague set,bunch of them play in broken geat,with weirdest setups -Guilds that have lower level members should spend more time in educating them on how to play the game-not to come and whine on forums about something that they actually don't need...

As for suggested type of relics-sounds to me like epic for everyone-and I believe that everyone knows how "epic" some of those items are...



It is ok as it is.Those that have them-deserve them-those that don't have them -don't deserve them!!!


well for starters, a lot of guild dont have low level items, and a lot of low level players cant buy the items thay need, that was what happend to me.
second a lot of guilds, like tc and obr have on a guild forum sight, kindof a list of tips on how to level. and as for you >.> i never used the plague set as the guild i was in at the time didnt have it. i was the only member under lvl 200 as my friend was co founder and pulled strings for me to get in. i had to do with out and it was hard to train and level up. once i was in tc witch had the gear i needed leveling went by fast. and relics realy do help for leveling. while higher level players and guilds realy dont need thim, its like giveing a rich guy a mill bonus every year for doing the same thing a poor guy dose. lower level players shuld have every right to relics and a lot of guilds wth relics have a level limite on joining, we at obr only alow 1 player below level 100 in at a time. other guilds have it at 200. and iv seen a few that set it to 400. with a guild full of level 400 and up players, theres realy no fighting chance for low levels. and at a some point you cant even train with out being in a guild for me it was around level 80. as most of the good leveling gear is just to much for me to have bught on my own. and with out good gear you wast stam, and take for ever t level up. thats a fact that i learned in tc from jimboo and rakrak, the fastist levelers i ever known


Obamageddn - too bad he's not around to speak for himself. :(

^ never joined a guild, obviously never had a relic... I can't verify if he ever spent on the game, I'm sure others may know him better than I.

Now lets get it right,

The high level guilds aren't after the relics for stamina gain per hour
They are after them for xp gain per hour.
You can see by the way the top 2 guilds in the game are "owning" xp gain relics, not stamina gain relics.


I'm in FFS. Our relic is a stamina gain relic. The xp gains aren't "all that", but thanx for telling me why my guild likes to hold Despair, cuz eventho I am the co founder, I had no idea. Seriously.

Frankly if Stamina, xp and enhancements are so necessary for high level guilds or they have them because they deserve them, whatever!

Let the low levels have them too.
I don't care if HCS makes more relic's with the same bonus's on them in the higher levels,
as long as they shut them out of the low level ones. I do care if Low levels don't have access to the same advantages because they can't get the stats required to kick high levels off the relics even for an hour.


You know.... you are at level 529. There are 53 relics below your level. I bet you could take about 40 of those relics easily, AND some of them might actually be useful for you. Yet it's only the Despair crystal you seem concerned with not being able to take? You know, the xp gain per hour isn't all that... you get more from killing a couple of creatures. Have you seen the number? +200 xp base per hour. How much do you get when you kill a creature? I get a couple 100k xp in one creature kill. On the other hand, I lose about 5,5 million when someone 100 stams me, but it's all good. XP comes and XP goes. It's a game. An xp gain relic never made a guild "top notch". I wish HCS would make a few small ones that you could go sit on, but then I am pretty sure you'd complain that it didn't have +20 stam gain on it to make it worth the walk for 99% of your members.


This is something I've wanted to correct since I first read it... xp gain is not as plain as you see it. XP gain increases every 25 levels from level 1. So at mzzery's level, it's 41 xp per +1 xp gain. For +200 xp gain per hour, it's actually 8,200 xp per hour. As stated above, that's roughly one to two creature kills (depending on Lib)... this is still not to disregard that players, even at my level, need to deck themselves out with all kinds of potions and buffs ON TOP of the relic bonuses JUST to hunt successfully.

When, and if, I finish reading this (now) 39 page thread... I may or may not leave another reply, we'll see. :P

#576 BZRNRG360

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Posted 27 January 2011 - 06:41

so i have to help my mm and sister and brother out as well. and smokes ant cheap....


"smokes ant cheap..."

Uhh... quit? :roll:

#577 Mzzery

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Posted 27 January 2011 - 07:55

This is something I've wanted to correct since I first read it... xp gain is not as plain as you see it. XP gain increases every 25 levels from level 1. So at mzzery's level, it's 41 xp per +1 xp gain. For +200 xp gain per hour, it's actually 8,200 xp per hour. As stated above, that's roughly one to two creature kills (depending on Lib)... this is still not to disregard that players, even at my level, need to deck themselves out with all kinds of potions and buffs ON TOP of the relic bonuses JUST to hunt successfully.

When, and if, I finish reading this (now) 39 page thread... I may or may not leave another reply, we'll see. :P


Correct. Depending on level, it does go up, yes.... Every 25 levels adds. I believe I mentioned that the level has an impact (it's +200 xp base per hour), that's not even a creature kill worth of xp a day, even if you don't calc on Lib or AL kicking in.

Since we are discussing numbers...

They have several inactive members (backpacks and M/A, plus 5 others that are currently listed as gone 7+ days, which in effect means they give the guild no xp no matter wether they have upgrades in xp gain, have an xp gain relic, or wear xp gain gear). They have 31 active members. Those 31 have an average level of 209.

If you look at the xp gain mouse over ingame, xp gain is explained like this:

"Note that your 'xp gain' is allocated, plus a bonus of your xp gain times a multiplier equal to your level divided by '25' (rounding down). Note the actual value is always reflected in the quick display at the top bar xp mouseover. Note also at lower levels this value is scaled down up to a reduction factor of 10 to stop it potentially being too overpowering. Below level 25, no additional bonus is applied. "

For me, that's as you said 41. For the average Fracker, it's 33 (our average level is 841 atm).
For the order of the blue rose, it would be 8 for their average member. That's 1600 xp per hour, or if they chose to empower it to 10 (which costs 3,550,000 gold if you are lucky, but usually closer to 10 million, since if you fail one of the 10, it resets back to 0), it would be 3200 xp. That's unless they are in the low levels that decrease it... a level 26 would get 20 per hour, with the 1/10 scaling. A level 25 or below would get nothing.

If you buy the xp gain per hour, you get +25 base per hour for every upgrade, without having to fight another guild for it = 200 per hour for someone with 8 per, as their average active member has. If you then consider that you can upgrade the xp gain 50 times in the upgrades section, you'll know why I said an xp gain relic gives just a drop in the ocean worth.

If you take into account their max stamina average....

They have 9 members with less than 1k max stam, and the average is 2,356. They have 4 members with more than 5000 max stam. It would in my opinion, based on all these facts, be quite a bad idea to make the rest of that guild go sit on a relic, when only 4 people would gain from it, and ONLY if it was a relic with stamina gain on it. Only one of those 4 would gain enough from it for it to be considered useful even if the relic they want would have stam gain on it. Is it really worth forcing an entire guild to walk back and forth every single time they hunt and waste 100s of stamina they could have used hunting, just so one member can gain from it? Not in my opinion.

Of the 31 currently listed as active, 14 have now been overflowing for 321 hours in total, which is an average of about 11 hours per person. 321 x 65 = 20865 stamina. (IF they have no upgrades in stam gain, so base will be calculated, with the structures = 65. If some of them actually do have stam gain upgrades, it's even more than those 20865 stam). Depending on how much stamina you use when you kill a creature, and the average xp you gain from doing it... it's about 1100? creatures that haven't been killed. That's a lot of xp they could have gained right there.

In my humble opinion, a guild like that should focus on getting their members to upgrade their max stamina to prevent overflowing instead, or at least try to make them overflow less.

I know, it's not my place to tell anyone what they should and shouldn't do, and my guild being pinpointed in the thread was the only reason I even looked at it to begin with. I do think it's only fair to try to help point out the facts though, since I do know what a pain it can be to defend a relic. It's a team effort, and as such, something the majority of a guild should be gaining something from that would make it worth that effort. As opposed to what they say in this thread (that low levels quit because they have no relics) I think THAT if anything, would cause people to not wanna play anymore.

(I'm still waiting to see if they will drop their minimum requirement for joining their guild, too, since Zweil claimed the thread was to make it easier for level 25 players to get into a guild... they have their minimum set at lvl 100, and it will soon go up to lvl 200 it says).

og3DxyP.gif


#578 Removed22342

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Posted 27 January 2011 - 12:57

Just me who thinks everyone should have the same chance of competing no matter where you hang out (i.e stats from gear only)? I don't care about xp/stamina bonus since you can buy those if you think it's worth it and big guilds already have an advantage with more gear, magics etc.

#579 fs_chad1

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Posted 27 January 2011 - 16:30

I think you all are missing the point that chezo is putting across. Chezo was asking if it was possible that the relic situation in the game could be rectified so that low lvl guilds could have a snowflakes chance in hell of ever controling a relic in this game, now I am not suggesting that all relics be handed over to the low lvl's and that start a relic war like never seen before in FS but that just maybe 1 or 2 relics (that is all) with stamina/xp gain be kept aside for the low lvl guilds to practice on so that they can hone their skills on to get a taste of what is like to take, defend and retake a relic if only for a short time and believe me it would be only a short time cause a lot of low lvl guilds are out there just itching to get their hands on a relic. I am not sure you all realize just how pathetic it sounds to a player who sits back and watches all this bitchyness over who is right and who is wrong about the relic situation in the game but from a bystanders point of view it is obvious that the game needs change to survive and it seems only fair that it change on the side of the lower lvl players/guilds so that everyone gets a fair go in the game, and that is all chezo is asking for, a fair go, a fair go for the little guilds out there.

#580 Prezze

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Posted 27 January 2011 - 16:56

I really don't see an issue actually...

The only reason you can have against it is that yes they can't capture a highly defended guild.

But does a low level guild need a relic in order to enjoy the game?

Imo they don't need it to enjoy the game, you can easily one hit without a relic.

Not to mention the large diversity of items they currently have available. I one hitted till level 115 with using just regular sets and no relic at all. Now they have a large supply of legendary overpowered gear available (some gear expensive, other equipment cheap).

Stating that a person will quit the game cause he isn't able to capture a relic is far-fetched, if certain people would do so for that reason. Well they wouldn't keep playing the game either. Or well have to start with removing all the overpowered gear aswell and remove legendary equipment so everyone can afford or get the same gear.

The big problem with the players in FS lately is they want everything handed out to them.


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