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New arena players below level 150 can not get started


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#1 yodamus

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Posted 01 February 2011 - 13:09

wow..i guess the people in charge of arena do not want any players below the level of 150 to try and start pvp arena...i have looked for last 2 weeks and even right at this momnet at the arena's for combat moves, the ones that the newer players must enter in, to be able to be competitive...there are none !!!! only 2 for less than level 150 and both allow moves....HOW IS ANY NEW PLAYER GOING TO GET HIS MOVES !!!...i have only seen a small handfull of combat moves arena's for less than lvl 100 over last 2 weeks..and almost all of them allow moves...i ask again...how is a new player wanting to try arena supposed to get started ???? ..they have close to 0% chance of winning gold or any items if they are brand new..they neeed to be able to win combat moves..but if there are no tourneys for them to enter..how can they even start....the spawning levels for combat moves needs some seroius adjusting..why do we need all these level 600-1000 for combat moves..almost all of those players already have thier 36 moves..(is why those drop to less than 2k to enter and take forever to fill)..many many more combat moves tourneys are needed for level 1-150, and many of those should not allow moves, to get newer players into arena..if this is never fixed..arena will never grow..i have 3 guildmates that want to get into arena...for 2 weeks, i can not find 1 combat move tourney for them to enter in..so they gave up wanting to try..and i am sure many others are like that..want to get involved, but cant..as there is nothing to join for them...plllllease fix the level spawning and moves allowed for combat move tourneys ..let get some newer player into arena...all arena players feel free to critiic this post..

#2 yodamus

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Posted 01 February 2011 - 17:35

bump..and will keep bumping until someone answers me ...5 hours later..i check the COMBAT MOVES again..only 2 of 25- 8% are below level 150, and both of them allow moves...17 of 25- 68% are for level 500 and above !!! ...i repeat 17 out of 25 for level 500+..that is absurd !!- most of these players already have thier moves..and the huge majority of newer players wanting to get involved with arena or just playing the game are below level 150..not above level 500...so why is there soooo many for level 500 and above and soooo few for levels 150 and below....totally and completly backwards on the percentages that are needed....please Big Grim or Forn or somebody look into this probelm..so far today and last 3 days iirc there has been only 1 chance for a new player to start getting his combat moves..a lvl 128 for deflect move..not good if you are level 40ish and want to get invovled in arena..most of my guild wants to get invovled but they cant..nothing to join..

#3 Zukira

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Posted 01 February 2011 - 18:25

Forum rules state that you are not to bump your own post without there being other responses in less than 12 hours from your previous post for Original post, or previous bump in the case of multiple bumps.

While I do find this a valid topic, I do think you should also remember the forum has rules as well regarding posting. It would be a shame if your thread was killed for a technicality when it has a valid point.

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#4 jsustin212

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Posted 01 February 2011 - 18:28

the fact that you need combat moves and have none doesnt mean you will lose, my first 3 arena wins were in move allowed arenas when i had none

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#5 yodamus

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Posted 01 February 2011 - 18:39

oops...sorry for the bump before any replies...did not see that rule and thought i had seen other do it..the point of my thread is there are no combat moves arenas for a newer player..lvl 100 or less to join..has been none for 3 days now..0 of them...how is a newer player to get started ?..yes, you can win with no moves..but is rather difficult and below lvl 100 there have been none that even allow moves..nothing to join at all..

#6 jsustin212

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Posted 01 February 2011 - 18:41

at this moment there are 2 below 100 5 below 150

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#7 fs_mossco

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Posted 01 February 2011 - 19:40

currently there are 4 below 150, but also there are 9 between 846-910, two of which have entry fees lowered to below 1000 gold. This is a big clue that moves need to be weighted more toward lower levels.

#8 morderme

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Posted 01 February 2011 - 19:45

It sure would seem fairer to be able to compete with like levelers in the PvP arena. Regardless of the restrictions to Specials, Forge, and Epics, it is consistently the higher levelers that win at these tournaments. I have Gwans set and Odhars set and Deathspinner set -- trying all sorts of combinations -- losing to higher levelers -- with at least exciting outcomes to similar levelers when that (seldom) happens (that is, competing against and with a bunch of players around the same level).

And when I say consistent, that applies to pretty much across the board. That is, the higher the level – 200, 300, etc – the more likely the higher leveler wins – especially when the difference in levels is +100 or more. If the arena rules truly did “even” everyone out, then you shouldn’t see the winners consistently the very high level players, but they are.

Sounds like sour grapes, I know, but you get a sense when something doesn’t seem fair or balanced, and the PvP arena results just don’t pan out statistically.

Here's another fact: Latest round of competition for PvP arena moves:

Under level 50: 0 compeitions
Level 50 to 399: 7 competitions, average cost to join = 16,875 gold
Level 400 and above: 18 compeitions, average cost to join = less than 12,000 gold, with 7 lower than 10,000 to join.

So, advantage seems not only for higher levels in competing, but cheaper to join the fray for higher levelers, with more gold to spend, having to spend less to do so.

Pretty clear that the PvP Arena appears skewed in favor of the higher level players.

I'll keep trying, why? Dunno...

#9 yodamus

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Posted 01 February 2011 - 22:38

to the person who said there are 2 below level 100 and 5 below level 150..what world are you in ?...i am talking about combat move arenas only...i repeat, this is for combat moves only !!...there is only 1 for below lvl 100, a lvl 57 for a move..that is the only one below level 100 for the last 24 hrs..there have been no others..if so ..let me know ..so where you got 2 from is a guess to me..i just checked the last approx 48 hrs of arena..159 pages of completed tourneys...7 below level 50, 2 between lvl 50-100, and 7 from lvl 100-150...16 total in the last 48hrs..only 3 of which no moves allowed..how is anyone to get started in arena with sooo few to enter in ??...but yet there have been 71 tourneys for lvl 500 and above..those are completly wrong numbers if you want newer players to get involved in arena...this has to be fixed immediatly..should be a really simple change, just change the spawning rates..how hard can that be....please fix this probelm....only 1 below level 100 in last 24hrs ???..randomness has disappeared..

#10 dragon1234

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Posted 01 February 2011 - 22:48

there are alot of higher move tourneys because the amount of people who are willing to join those tourneys get less and less as the level goes up higher (or most already have their moves), as a result these moves are delayed at the top for days on end.

Because of the fact that they are delayed at the top for days on end, the price drop some % every X hours resulting in a cheaper entrance fee for these tourneys, if you want those tourneys to move faster and spawn more tourney for yourself, spend some money and join them, even if you have no chance to win, youll move the moves arenas faster, allowing for more <150 to spawn. Its cost 1FSP to join the 20 moves tourney.

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#11 yodamus

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 00:49

that was the stupidest argument ever..i and others should have to spend our gold and fsps on arena's we cant win or even be allowed to win (i have all 36 moves??) ??? in order to try and hope that a lvl 150 or below will appear..??..unreal stupid..why not fix it..instead of having players having to waste gold/fsps to fix it..? 1 fsp for 20 arena's...well if a lvl 150 or below is appearing 1 out of 100..someone should spend 5 fsps just to hope to get 1 arena to join for a combat moves ???...are you for real ??..greeeeeeedy..high level players just want the arena for themselves...

#12 KitiaraLi

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 07:32

that was the stupidest argument ever..i and others should have to spend our gold and fsps on arena's we cant win or even be allowed to win (i have all 36 moves??) ??? in order to try and hope that a lvl 150 or below will appear..??..unreal stupid..why not fix it..instead of having players having to waste gold/fsps to fix it..? 1 fsp for 20 arena's...well if a lvl 150 or below is appearing 1 out of 100..someone should spend 5 fsps just to hope to get 1 arena to join for a combat moves ???...are you for real ??..greeeeeeedy..high level players just want the arena for themselves...


Nope, but what you just did wasn't very clever.
The above post was not an argument, but a flashlight on a flawed arena mechanism which explains why those sorta tournaments tend to linger at the higher lvls, and how that affects the rest of the arena. The post also included a suggestion on a fix for this, which admittedly is not perfect, but a fix none the less.
You jumping to the conclusion that everyone at a high level is greedy, and wants the arena for 'emself is not only childish, but also whining and borderline paranoid.

If you have a valid point in those "extremely hard on my eyes" posts, I suggest you stick to that, and refrain from jumping around like a troll with a fireball up its a¤%

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#13 dragon1234

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 07:34

that was the stupidest argument ever..i and others should have to spend our gold and fsps on arena's we cant win or even be allowed to win (i have all 36 moves??) ??? in order to try and hope that a lvl 150 or below will appear..??..unreal stupid..why not fix it..instead of having players having to waste gold/fsps to fix it..? 1 fsp for 20 arena's...well if a lvl 150 or below is appearing 1 out of 100..someone should spend 5 fsps just to hope to get 1 arena to join for a combat moves ???...are you for real ??..greeeeeeedy..high level players just want the arena for themselves...


Nobody said it was an argument, I was simply explaining why there are so many high level tourneys and provided a suggestion to get it along faster. I used to do it all the time when the arenas were all 1 single arena, providing ppl w/ gold and such to join and make it go faster. If you dont like it then find another way to get more tourneys (I suggest complaining in a ticket or something).

Also, 1/100 is a bit much, the chance of a level 150 or below appearing is 150/1000(give or take 100), which is 15/100, and its probably more considering lower level tourneys spawn more often than higher level tourneys. Your last statement is false because high level tourneys takes longer to fill, while lower level tourneys takes less time, resulting in an arena that might look skewed to high level player, but is pretty much even (might even be skewed a little to the lower side).

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#14 Sakuliver

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 11:36

that was the stupidest argument ever..i and others should have to spend our gold and fsps on arena's we cant win or even be allowed to win (i have all 36 moves??) ??? in order to try and hope that a lvl 150 or below will appear..??..unreal stupid..why not fix it..instead of having players having to waste gold/fsps to fix it..? 1 fsp for 20 arena's...well if a lvl 150 or below is appearing 1 out of 100..someone should spend 5 fsps just to hope to get 1 arena to join for a combat moves ???...are you for real ??..greeeeeeedy..high level players just want the arena for themselves...


Nobody said it was an argument, I was simply explaining why there are so many high level tourneys and provided a suggestion to get it along faster. I used to do it all the time when the arenas were all 1 single arena, providing ppl w/ gold and such to join and make it go faster. If you dont like it then find another way to get more tourneys (I suggest complaining in a ticket or something).

Also, 1/100 is a bit much, the chance of a level 150 or below appearing is 150/1000(give or take 100), which is 15/100, and its probably more considering lower level tourneys spawn more often than higher level tourneys. Your last statement is false because high level tourneys takes longer to fill, while lower level tourneys takes less time, resulting in an arena that might look skewed to high level player, but is pretty much even (might even be skewed a little to the lower side).


+1
I, and many others in the other arena threads, agree that the spawning of any kind needs a change. But never forget, when a L.50 move arena shows up it probably fills within an hour, where those L.900 ones take a day and thus accumulate (and become cheaper).

It sure would seem fairer to be able to compete with like levelers in the PvP arena. Regardless of the restrictions to Specials, Forge, and Epics, it is consistently the higher levelers that win at these tournaments. I have Gwans set and Odhars set and Deathspinner set -- trying all sorts of combinations -- losing to higher levelers -- with at least exciting outcomes to similar levelers when that (seldom) happens (that is, competing against and with a bunch of players around the same level).

And when I say consistent, that applies to pretty much across the board. That is, the higher the level – 200, 300, etc – the more likely the higher leveler wins – especially when the difference in levels is +100 or more. If the arena rules truly did “even” everyone out, then you shouldn’t see the winners consistently the very high level players, but they are.

Sounds like sour grapes, I know, but you get a sense when something doesn’t seem fair or balanced, and the PvP arena results just don’t pan out statistically.

Here's another fact: Latest round of competition for PvP arena moves:

Under level 50: 0 compeitions
Level 50 to 399: 7 competitions, average cost to join = 16,875 gold
Level 400 and above: 18 compeitions, average cost to join = less than 12,000 gold, with 7 lower than 10,000 to join.

So, advantage seems not only for higher levels in competing, but cheaper to join the fray for higher levelers, with more gold to spend, having to spend less to do so.

Pretty clear that the PvP Arena appears skewed in favor of the higher level players.

I'll keep trying, why? Dunno...


Like the answers you got in the other thread and which can be read in the arena rules, your level doesn't matter. You say you have Odhar, Gwan, and Deathspinner. That's great and a lot more than many people have. Use them and see why you still lose arenas, as people said it has to do with experience, learn from your losses. And don't forget that frustration/luck is a very important factor. You cannot say if one setup is working after losing once. Only when you consistently lose many times in the same way it is time to change something. No top arena player wins every arena he enters, maybe 1 in 10 on a good day, but more often only 1 in 20/30 or even worse.

#15 EvilLyn

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 11:53

also, just try the higher level moves.... most of the hardcore arena players cant do them any more. at 125 i was winning moves above 200 *shrugs* you gotta try at least.

#16 yodamus

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 12:46

i agree the higher levels moves fill slower, and the lower ones for moves fill up faster..you can say that make its looked skewed, except this - ...instead look at the completed tournies..then explain to me..how after a 1000+ tourneys, 159 pages of completes.....there were 71 completed above level 500 and only 16 completed below lvl 150 in the same time frame...that shows the probelm i am trying to expose...there are not anywhere close to enough lower level moves spawning...that is a huge difference when everyone agrees the lower levels would fill faster and end up in the completed tournies..do some checks for yourselves, like i did..and pretend you are lvl 40 wanting to get started in arena for some combat moves..for the next week..let see how many tournies you would be able to enter..and at least be competitive in..it will not be very many ..be lucky to find 1 a day..

#17 morderme

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 17:45

There were perhaps 2 or 3 arena challenges below 100 for all the different categories today. That doesn't say very much for the opoprtunity for lower levelers to particpate let alone have any chance at success.

Why don't we see more arena challenges across the board, from the lower levels and up? When a lower level arena opens up, it starts around 15,000 gold -- that is an extremely big investment for a newb versus a 300, 400, and above leveler -- chump change for them.

Again, if the arena postings were truly random, you would see a fairly even spread on max levels ont eh board. But that has not been the case since I have been watching and participating on the board. Only a very few arens below 100; fewer still below 50.

Of the 75 or so on the PvP Arena board right now, over 50 are for level 400 and above; with only 4 or 5 below 100 -- and only one below 50 -- and that one is 40,000 to join. Sorry, but there is little chance a true leveler at 10 or below will be entering that contest.

#18 fs_scrogger

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 17:57

What you are not realizing is that many of the arenas in the upper levels "SIT" meaning they fill extremely slowly, where as the lower level ones fill very fast. I would wager that you prob miss many of the ones that spawn even if offline for only 20 minutes. I have seen some fill in 2 minutes, sometimes faster. The arena is never going to be "fair" based on how much one can afford. I sell FSP often to join arenas, that's just part of the game. What level you are has little to do with the cost to join as selling FSP is available equally to all levels.

#19 morderme

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 19:52

The point is that there are almost NO arenas with max levles of 50 or less. I understand that the amount should change until the arena is filled up, however, the arena is not likely to fll with lower level players who have to shell out 20,000 or more to join. By the time they could join, the higher level players WITH the $$$, have already sone so.

Checking the arenas again shows very few arenas under 50...there should be no reason for that if the arena postings were truly random. I guess in the past, lower levelers could not participate, but that only makes sense if you make the arena cost prohibitive at that level.

So, that part of the PvP arenas is dysfunctional -- the lack of lower max levels combined with the high cost to join.

Geez, it doesn't have to be "fair", but it doesn't make sense and only really narrows the audience to those who "have" -- that is not a good business case -- in any organization, you need to constantly encourage newer, younger, etc., consumers, to join and to succeed, so they keep coming back for more -- basically excluding newer and lower level players fromt his aspect of the game is counter-intuitive and counter-productive.

There's NO way that I am missing so many lower level arenas. When I am online hunting or GvGing, I check the arenas and the bounty board -- sometimes there is a change, but many times, the change is negligible -- so I don't believe that there is that much change at all, and not that fast.

One other thing -- the basic stats of an 800 level piece of gear can be higher than some lower level, crafted and fully forged items -- so participating at the higher levels is at best a crap shoot, at worst, throwing your $$$ away -- it doesn't make sense at all to participate in levels too far above your present gear set.

One last thing -- ongoing arena -- max level 5: 20,000 to join. I am willing to bet that there isn't one player in there below 100 -- maybe oe, and certianly not a level 5 player.

#20 yodamus

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 20:29

hellllo...to the person that thinks i am missing those lower levels tournies becuase they fill up faster, get facts before dissing my study...read all my posts , i am checking those completed tourneys for my study..they tell the real story about spawn rates...many many more completed for higher levels than lower..so that proves you completly wrong..becuase if you were right..the completed ones would have plenty more lower levels than higher levels., but my study shows completly the opposite..... according to you the lower levels are filling so fast i cant see them..then why are they not in the completed tournies...simple answer to that...there just are not many lower levels being spawned ....can anyone think logically about this...before calling out my study, i have been online close to 3 days str8 doing this study, i am not missing anything.. ..do your own study...it is very simple to see that a new person to arena level 150 or below that wishes to enter a combat moves tourney without moves, will have to wait many hours, if not days to find one..i am trying to help get more players into arena..but some of you dissing my study seem to not want any newer players getting involved....greeeeeeeed


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