Edit: I'm at work, can anyone confirm/deny this without me getting fired?
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#361
Posted 14 February 2011 - 08:41
Edit: I'm at work, can anyone confirm/deny this without me getting fired?
#362
fs_coyotik
Posted 14 February 2011 - 09:15
will make a lot of people quit since a normal hunting session now became 5-10 FSP more expensive
How so?
#363
fs_coyotik
Posted 14 February 2011 - 09:17
Again, you do not NEED to EW1.5k use to hunt.... you might want too... but a level 1500 pot is uber rare and should be. There's many alternatives...
1) Fatality Hunt
2) CA175 hunt
3) GASP! 2-Hit!
You're actually wrong - CA50 is enough if you compare against EW175, and CA16/25 if you compare against EW1000
#364
Posted 14 February 2011 - 09:21
will make a lot of people quit since a normal hunting session now became 5-10 FSP more expensive
How so?
Ok as far as you see,all the drop rates for resources,potion making items for some high lvl potions as well as scavenge potions have increased by abt 3-4 fsp or may be 5 on a few items.So over all the hunting sessions costs a bit more than what they used to due to price increase.
Ex :EW used to be 9-10 fsp now are 18 fsp or so,thats alone 8 fsp diff,
UB190 used to be 1-2 fsp now at 5-6.
EA seems to be a very less changed.
DB 750 changed from abt 60-70k gold to 1-2 fsp.
Imp pots and many others have raised in prices too.
#365
fs_coyotik
Posted 14 February 2011 - 09:48
Ex :EW used to be 9-10 fsp now are 18 fsp or so,thats alone 8 fsp diff,
UB190 used to be 1-2 fsp now at 5-6.
EA seems to be a very less changed.
DB 750 changed from abt 60-70k gold to 1-2 fsp.
Imp pots and many others have raised in prices too.
And which of these are needed for "normal hunting sessions"? Isn't DBL450 or DBL500 good enough? When I was your level, all we had was DBL150...
And the others? UB190 vs. 175 and EA200 vs EA175 are very marginal - and EW1500 isn't needed at all. Yes, sometimes it allows you to save 6 to 12% stamina on a tougher level, but it's not needed. And that doesn't apply only to low levels. I have used EW1500 about twice between levels 850 and 1050, and EW1000 twice as well.
#366
Posted 14 February 2011 - 09:51
Ex :EW used to be 9-10 fsp now are 18 fsp or so,thats alone 8 fsp diff,
UB190 used to be 1-2 fsp now at 5-6.
EA seems to be a very less changed.
DB 750 changed from abt 60-70k gold to 1-2 fsp.
Imp pots and many others have raised in prices too.
And which of these are needed for "normal hunting sessions"? Isn't DBL450 or DBL500 good enough? When I was your level, all we had was DBL150...
And the others? UB190 vs. 175 and EA200 vs EA175 are very marginal - and EW1500 isn't needed at all. Yes, sometimes it allows you to save 6 to 12% stamina on a tougher level, but it's not needed. And that doesn't apply only to low levels. I have used EW1500 about twice between levels 850 and 1050, and EW1000 twice as well.
If all this not needed then remove Scavenging and we done...
Yea we can play without it
#367
fs_coyotik
Posted 14 February 2011 - 09:57
If all this not needed then remove Scavenging and we done...
Yea we can play without it
I would have expected somebody of your level understanding the difference between need and want
Scavenging would get used less, prices of legendary kit would reach legendary proportions - and pots would sell at higher prices in lower volumes, not end-of-the world.
BTW, I fully expect Hoof to make some adjustments. I am just a bit sick of all those posts that scream "oh noes, I cannot level anymore" and "people will quit because their normal hunting sessions won't be the same ever again with EW1500 doubled in price". I wonder what would they say if they had to start 2hitting with no way around it, like we had to from level 186 upwards...
#368
fs_cobra7781
Posted 14 February 2011 - 10:02
#369
Posted 14 February 2011 - 10:26
If all this not needed then remove Scavenging and we done...
Yea we can play without it
I would have expected somebody of your level understanding the difference between need and want.
Scavenging would get used less, prices of legendary kit would reach legendary proportions - and pots would sell at higher prices in lower volumes, not end-of-the world.
Need or want..whatever i just play this game for fun nothing serious for me here
As u said Scavenging activity will be less ... Why its add at first point ? Isnt gold sinking ?
Players will drop their gold there for what ? isnt it for something interesting?
So things like this should be changed from the start! NOT now after some players got much advantage of it....
Anyway i realy dont care about all this issue prices isnt problem for me i like it ...
I just care about ppl who will leave this game when they get annoyed from things like this then u will be happy?when game died?
#370
Posted 14 February 2011 - 10:27
this was like robbing robin hood rob from the rich and give to HCS o wait rob from every1 and give to HCS worse update ever i thinks its good for SE hunting ETC but for the caves its shocking
+1 :evil:
If all this not needed then remove Scavenging and we done...
Yea we can play without it
I would have expected somebody of your level understanding the difference between need and want.
Scavenging would get used less, prices of legendary kit would reach legendary proportions - and pots would sell at higher prices in lower volumes, not end-of-the world.
Need or want..whatever i just play this game for fun nothing serious for me here
As u said Scavenging activity will be less ... Why its add at first point ? Isnt gold sinking ?
Players will drop their gold there for what ? isnt it for something interesting?
So things like this should be changed from the start! NOT now after some players got much advantage of it....
Anyway i realy dont care about all this issue prices isnt problem for me i like it ...
I just care about ppl who will leave this game when they get annoyed from things like this then u will be happy?when game died?
+1
#371
fs_coyotik
Posted 14 February 2011 - 10:30
I just care about ppl who will leave this game when they get annoyed from things like this then u will be happy?when game died?
I don't believe there will be any mass exitus from this, especially since Hoof said they'll have a look at droprates in caves specifically. (And I think that a lot of people have left already due to the boredom of levelling, which is incidentally closely linked to EW1500, anyway)
And if scavenging gets used less, if it gets used mainly to obtain otherwise unobtainable expensive LE gear, it will probably sink as much gold as it does today. That all depends on the items found there and what will people be willing to pay for them. Doesn't matter whether it's 10x10 FSP for EW1500 or 1x100FSP for something else.
#372
Posted 14 February 2011 - 10:36
#373
fs_coyotik
Posted 14 February 2011 - 10:46
Actually, in my opinion, it isn't a boredom of leveling due to anything, rather a boredom of waiting for stam to do something with. but, that's off topic. maybe hoof will get the caves sorted out and there won't be any need for anyone to worry about someone leaving the game over it.
Well, I most certainly decided to retire because between 850 and 1050, there are almost no creeps that'd be challenging, and because when I wrote my complaint about this to the content team sometime right after Karthak, they didn't even bother to respond to me and instead rolled out 8 more contents with all creeps sticking to the same lousy and underpowered formula. There is no challenge in levelling, in the sense that there is no room to level better than those you're competing with, other than donating or otherwise farming FSP. This didn't use to be the case. For about 3 years, I managed to progress up the ladder without powerlevelling donations, just by very effective levelling, good knowledge (or lucky guess) about the combat system, good timing of quest rewards, despite not having any single stamgain item.
The brainless creep stats for the past year robbed me of the opportunity to use my competitive advantage. There are of course other reasons that helped my decision, mainly the reluctance to really deal with what I consider serious game issues (abuse and farming of GvG being one, similar principles then introduced in the so called PvP ladder being another).
But really the lack of challenge in levelling killed my interest, after a brief spark of hope in Karthak, where there was at least some opportunity for good timing of quests.
#374
Posted 14 February 2011 - 10:59
Bumping up - Hoof, I know you're fixing up things with the Hack and the popup here on the forum, but could you confirm you'll be looking at rebalancing the scavenging caves on Monday?
We will be looking at the drop rates for creatures in the Scavenging Caves on Monday
I think now with the FI 'fix' you may need to look at the drop rate of ALL classess of creatures in general?
#375
Posted 14 February 2011 - 11:00
Bumping up - Hoof, I know you're fixing up things with the Hack and the popup here on the forum, but could you confirm you'll be looking at rebalancing the scavenging caves on Monday?
We will be looking at the drop rates for creatures in the Scavenging Caves on Monday
I think now with the FI 'fix' you may need to look at the drop rate of ALL classess of creatures in general?
By Rarity would be cool
#376
Posted 14 February 2011 - 11:02
The fix - I was not in favour of changing the drop rate (you can read my opinion as originally posted in the Mythbusters thread). Despite the fact that the rate was broken and I do think a few more players should have been questioning how their comfortable lives were so easy to come by, I didn't want to upset the market this drastically - so please stop trying to label me as 'the most hated player in FS' without reading the facts.
As for drop rates on the item levels, a minimum does sound like a good idea to me now that the skill is working as intended. Obviously having SE and Legendary items with some rarity is a good idea - and a 100% drop rate is never justifiable on SE gear :roll:
I'd go along with something similar to:
Common - 5%
Rare - 4%
Unique - 4%
Legendary - 0%
Elite - 3%
Crystalline - 2%
Super Elite - 1%
Epic - 0%
as a baseline - they could of course be higher than this in practice. To put those numbers into perspective using an appropriate example:
Potion of Greater Doubler:
Guide Drop Rate: 1.25%
What you used to get with FI 1000: 13.75%
What you get now with FI 1000: 2.5%
What you would get with the new minimum drop rate: 4% without FI 1000, 8% with.
I think that this is sufficiently close to both what was intended and what occurred in practice.
As another example, let's look at the Flaming Baron:
Guide Drop Rate: 10%!!!
What you used to get with FI 1000: 100%
What you get now with FI 1000: 20%
What you would get with the new minimum drop rate: 10% without FI 1000, 20% with.
Hence, the new minimum drop rates would preserve the rarity of the Super Elite items. Destroyer currently drops at 1.5% overall (including the potion) or 0.375% per item. If the new fix came into play the minimum would be 1% per item, or 4% overall. A drop every 13 kills or so with FI 1000 active for one of the rarest sets in the game even with a broken FI seems reasonable to me.
The answer is not to undo the fix (unless you can prove it wasn't broken). It's to ensure the fix is appropriate to the situation. Saying 'drop rates were fine before' shows a complete ignorance of the way skills are meant to work based on their description (regardless of whether the practical situation may have been that way).
#377
Posted 14 February 2011 - 11:13
From several pages back; this was a first attempt.
The fix - I was not in favour of changing the drop rate (you can read my opinion as originally posted in the Mythbusters thread). Despite the fact that the rate was broken and I do think a few more players should have been questioning how their comfortable lives were so easy to come by, I didn't want to upset the market this drastically - so please stop trying to label me as 'the most hated player in FS' without reading the facts.
As for drop rates on the item levels, a minimum does sound like a good idea to me now that the skill is working as intended. Obviously having SE and Legendary items with some rarity is a good idea - and a 100% drop rate is never justifiable on SE gear :roll:
I'd go along with something similar to:
Common - 5%
Rare - 4%
Unique - 4%
Legendary - 0%
Elite - 3%
Crystalline - 2%
Super Elite - 1%
Epic - 0%
as a baseline - they could of course be higher than this in practice. To put those numbers into perspective using an appropriate example:
Potion of Greater Doubler:
Guide Drop Rate: 1.25%
What you used to get with FI 1000: 13.75%
What you get now with FI 1000: 2.5%
What you would get with the new minimum drop rate: 4% without FI 1000, 8% with.
I think that this is sufficiently close to both what was intended and what occurred in practice.
As another example, let's look at the Flaming Baron:
Guide Drop Rate: 10%!!!
What you used to get with FI 1000: 100%
What you get now with FI 1000: 20%
What you would get with the new minimum drop rate: 10% without FI 1000, 20% with.
Hence, the new minimum drop rates would preserve the rarity of the Super Elite items. Destroyer currently drops at 1.5% overall (including the potion) or 0.375% per item. If the new fix came into play the minimum would be 1% per item, or 4% overall. A drop every 13 kills or so with FI 1000 active for one of the rarest sets in the game even with a broken FI seems reasonable to me.
The answer is not to undo the fix (unless you can prove it wasn't broken). It's to ensure the fix is appropriate to the situation. Saying 'drop rates were fine before' shows a complete ignorance of the way skills are meant to work based on their description (regardless of whether the practical situation may have been that way).
This is a pretty good idea imho. Although it might not be a bad idea to up Legendary to 1%.
#378
Posted 14 February 2011 - 11:23
This is a pretty good idea imho. Although it might not be a bad idea to up Legendary to 1%.
My feeling on that was basically the problem with cave/world events needing comparable rates. Setting a 1% minimum is too high for a world map event lasting 24+ hours, but would be needed in the caves for scavenging to be worthwhile (indeed, calculations suggest a base rate of 3-4% would be fine in the caves).
Hence I set the 'minimum' at 0% so the cows can tweak up/down depending on where the event is being held.
Pages 17 and 18 have some rough guesses at what these rates would do for cave pricing - having rerun a few scenarios the price for EW1500 might be a little lower than that predicted due to the offsetting value of UB190 potions. It shouldn't be too far off though.
Drop rates for creatures 'only' in the caves or only on the map like Super Elites are simpler to set a minimum for, so I had a best guess attempt at doing that.
#379
Posted 14 February 2011 - 11:30
#380
Posted 14 February 2011 - 11:39
Yea This not spawning like usual LE events... its spawn like elites (1 instant spawn after kill) and pretty huge mapI would think under normal circumstances your 0% would be close. But there is at least one instance of a Legendary that is in the world all the time I can think of. It may be the only one...the lvl 1000 Seal of Fire. I hunted it before FI was changed and even with the FI1000 I had to kill it close to 100 times for the three drops from it. Of course that one creature could possibly be set on its own apart from the other LEs in the caves and the ones released in the realms for events such as we just had also.
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