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#21 sweetlou

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Posted 20 February 2011 - 11:12

Why not form a quorum, or council, or whatever you want to call it. Get a smallish group of people from diverse areas of the game and let them thrash out the solutions to all the problems that seem to be caused by "updates" before they get released.

?

Because this is HCS' game. They already get their feedback from the forum and 'usually' follow it. No update is that terrible, as much as some think.

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#22 BandLaw

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Posted 20 February 2011 - 20:59

Why not form a quorum, or council, or whatever you want to call it. Get a smallish group of people from diverse areas of the game and let them thrash out the solutions to all the problems that seem to be caused by "updates" before they get released.

?

Because this is HCS' game. They already get their feedback from the forum and 'usually' follow it. No update is that terrible, as much as some think.


Trecar came up with a good idea - the cow's can't (and don't) listen to everybody; heck, they seldom implement the ideas given after they specifically ask for them (I'm thinking of the hundreds or more of GvG/PvP/Guild upgrades/Titan fixes threads that were "official threads" and yet the ideas never implemented)...

A smaller section representing a cross section of the players would be much better then having a mass free for all with all players. You want to be heard? Run for the council or let a council person (or several of them) know what your concerns are. Or make a thread in the forums- if its good, then the council members would find it and could bring it up..

And the idea about posting the forum contents (locked, of course from new posts) so that everybody could see what the council was deliberating during their service would promote transparency and honesty. Much better then the idea of just having a free for all in the current forums where there's 30+ pages of posts that most of which will never pass through a cows eyes...

Its ok luisspamer and others - no need to freak out, like most good ideas in the forum, the cows won't do anything like this or even close.

#23 sweetlou

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Posted 20 February 2011 - 22:27

Its ok luisspamer and others - no need to freak out

Just curious how you read my post as freaking out?

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#24 rhann123

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Posted 20 February 2011 - 23:08

No, This is a game not real life. Lets keep it that way!

#25 BandLaw

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Posted 21 February 2011 - 02:16

Its ok luisspamer and others - no need to freak out

Just curious how you read my post as freaking out?


Not just you - all the calls that were basically this idea is stupid, so just lock the thread now. I just feel he makes a valid point that HCS can't (and doesn't) listen to everybody, but if they had a more focused group (aka a focus group or committee or council), that was elected, they might solicit input. As somebody in another thread about forum mods (another example of how players could help instead of HCS trying to do it all themselves)... they said (paraphrasing) If players as forum mods are good enough for Electronic Arts (a mega-company in its own right), then surely a smaller company with a lower budget would benefit from it as well.

#26 sweetlou

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Posted 21 February 2011 - 05:03

I don't think replies in this thread are saying the idea of the OP is stupid but unlikely. HCS already has a forum. They do read and listen. This thread sounds more like - I'm unhappy about something. Why aren't the devs listening and changing it? Can we take a vote? Elect representatives?

Come on. Let's look historically at direct player involvement with the game(and only the forum).

The FS forum had player mods. They are no longer, whatever happened. HCS has never revealed the reason why they are no longer and I wouldn't expect them to do so now. They have no responsibility to reveal or justify their actions or practices. As players of their game we are not consumers, even if you donate. We are only all participants.

I find it hard to expect HCS would do anything differently. What has changed drastically over the past couple of years is the amount of time Hoof, BigGrim, Forn,and Radneto spend directly interacting with players on the forum. Asking questions, answering them, putting ideas out there and actually sticking around to ask more questions used to occur much more often. Today an official thread is thrown up and left for weeks, getting flamed and saturated with dozens of pages. That's where my complaint would be. Other than that HCS wouldn't show favoritism to one group of players over the rest. Doesn't make any sense to me at all.

How do you 'freak out' on a post besides using all caps or profanity anyway?

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#27 fs_coyotik

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Posted 21 February 2011 - 10:48

Hoof once said they've done it in the past and it didn't work well, but I think it'd be worth giving it another shot, because the alternative so far doesn't work well either.

HCS already has a forum. They do read and listen.


The only problem with forum is that the loudest opinion wins. And similar to polls, the forum has many posts driven by selfish interests, with no regard for the good of the game as a whole.

I believe that HCS should either declare a week of gameplaying vacation, where at least all the employees responsible for game mechanics or content, but preferrably everybody else, would try to actively PLAY the game from the very first level, with absolutely no upgrades, in a moderate-sized guild, to get firsthand experience. Give them a lot of reserve stam so that they could proceed quickly.

But if this doesn't happen, if they themselves are not able or willing to really play the game (anonymously, and with all the game brings, including getting hammered in early GvG, getting constantly robbed in the jungle on the low levels, getting bullied and insulted, getting no quest drop for ages etc.), then I really think that some alternative in the form of a game council would be a good thing, to provide a sort of voicing board for their ideas.

I could name a dozen players who have shown in their participation on the forum that they are able to think about the good of the game, not necessarily the good of their guild or themselves - and it's those people, who have a real and deep experience, who should be involved, at least in the form of giving advice. HCS are quite good and resourceful when adding new stuff and new ideas to the game, the only problem really is that by not playing the game, they quite often do more harm than good.

#28 elmo2lars

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Posted 21 February 2011 - 11:28

Hoof once said they've done it in the past and it didn't work well, but I think it'd be worth giving it another shot, because the alternative so far doesn't work well either.

HCS already has a forum. They do read and listen.


The only problem with forum is that the loudest opinion wins. And similar to polls, the forum has many posts driven by selfish interests, with no regard for the good of the game as a whole.

I believe that HCS should either declare a week of gameplaying vacation, where at least all the employees responsible for game mechanics or content, but preferrably everybody else, would try to actively PLAY the game from the very first level, with absolutely no upgrades, in a moderate-sized guild, to get firsthand experience. Give them a lot of reserve stam so that they could proceed quickly.

But if this doesn't happen, if they themselves are not able or willing to really play the game (anonymously, and with all the game brings, including getting hammered in early GvG, getting constantly robbed in the jungle on the low levels, getting bullied and insulted, getting no quest drop for ages etc.), then I really think that some alternative in the form of a game council would be a good thing, to provide a sort of voicing board for their ideas.

I could name a dozen players who have shown in their participation on the forum that they are able to think about the good of the game, not necessarily the good of their guild or themselves - and it's those people, who have a real and deep experience, who should be involved, at least in the form of giving advice. HCS are quite good and resourceful when adding new stuff and new ideas to the game, the only problem really is that by not playing the game, they quite often do more harm than good.

+1... And a nomination to the comitee for you, for always adding well thought out posts, that adresses the basic economics of the game. As well as being profoundly "The good of the game"!-oriented.

#29 fs_coyotik

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Posted 21 February 2011 - 11:59

+1... And a nomination to the comitee for you, for always adding well thought out posts, that adresses the basic economics of the game. As well as being profoundly "The good of the game"!-oriented.


No thanks :). I've retired a few weeks ago and playing the game is really a must for whoever should be giving comments and advice to the developers. And I promised to my wife to never un-retire as the few hours spent every Sunday night on levelling are now spent with her...

#30 sweetlou

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Posted 21 February 2011 - 14:26

The only problem with forum is that the loudest opinion wins. And similar to polls, the forum has many posts driven by selfish interests, with no regard for the good of the game as a whole.

When are votes cast for the better benefit of all? If you don't 'vote' or put your opinion out to be heard or considered by a community, what do you expect but the status quo? Speak up or follow. The devs may not have the time and resources to read every single post. They rely on players to police themselves.

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#31 fs_coyotik

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Posted 21 February 2011 - 14:58

The only problem with forum is that the loudest opinion wins. And similar to polls, the forum has many posts driven by selfish interests, with no regard for the good of the game as a whole.

When are votes cast for the better benefit of all? If you don't 'vote' or put your opinion out to be heard or considered by a community, what do you expect but the status quo? Speak up or follow. The devs may not have the time and resources to read every single post. They rely on players to police themselves.


My favorite example is the "marketplace cap" official poll, which basically asked the players whether they'd want a maximum price for FPS in the marketplace. It was a great example of them policing themselves. A vast majority voted "yes", but, surprise, nobody was willing to sell at that price. A great example of a "stupid" poll.

IMHO the developers should have a quite good idea of how they want their game to work (and should use polls only for various "details" and i.e. prioritizing of planned features). Letting the public influence game mechanics is likely to do more harm than good.

#32 fs_regnier7

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Posted 22 February 2011 - 03:07

My apologies, Davros. Clearly everyone should have their say....umm, except me, because i'm an idiot.

Clearly the idea that a small group of actual gamers could brainstorm to iron out the majority of potential flaws in new updates before releasing them is a really stupid idea. I'm sorry i brought it up.

Clearly, the best way is for 1000 people to scream all weekend about it after it's been introduced.

What was i thinking..... :roll:



Don't let him bother you too much. lol

Your idea is good, in theory, but with the current community and who I fear the cows would pick.... it'd be even worse than the random bickering on the forum. Too many people lobbying and not enough thinking outside their own wants.

My post wasn't meant as a bash, just something from a bitter player who's read the forums wayyyyy too much. lol

#33 Sustortias

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Posted 22 February 2011 - 04:24

I agree with the principle the op is trying to put across. I reckon it's a great idea and i am all for it.

At the moment the problem is that they do so many changes it's hard to keep on top of em all thus bugs/bad updates happen.


Another idea perhaps is that one or more of the cows thoroughly plays the game to the max and see's things how they really are.

Perhaps he/she could join a top guild as a regular player (without them knowing they are staff) so they get a 'feel' for the real state of play. Just so long as the played the game, would work to the greater good imo.

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#34 Bleltch

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Posted 22 February 2011 - 04:39

Another idea perhaps is that one or more of the cows thoroughly plays the game to the max and see's things how they really are.

Perhaps he/she could join a top guild as a regular player (without them knowing they are staff) so they get a 'feel' for the real state of play. Just so long as the played the game, would work to the greater good imo.

They all need to do that. They should all be required to try all the different activities the game has to offer. Trying out low level as well as high level guilds, they all have a different feel to them. There isn't any way for them to understand the practical workings of the game by skimming forum posts, they need to experience it first hand. Just to come on once a day and use some stamina might open their eyes.


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