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Fallen Sword Mythbusters: Part 6 - The Intangible Buffs


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#1 RJEM

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Posted 01 March 2011 - 00:31

Hey Everyone,

It's been a pretty hectic time trying (and so far not completely succeeding) in sorting out the fallout from the Find Item fix applied by HCS - so it's been a while since I've posted a new topic :(

Fortunately, thanks to the efforts of ando I've been able to investigate something a little more mundane, but which I also found interesting at the same time.

As a disclaimer: HCS should not need to make any 'fixes' as a result of this thread. Phew. :mrgreen:

Extractor


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Simple buff - simple description. +8.75% chance to extract something usable from a resource. Now, HCS do specifically say that this is a 'fixed' increase, unlike Find Item (which depends on the base rate) - but we thought it would be worth checking. At the same time we compiled some fairly large samples of resource extraction rates from 5 of the most common plants.

Fortunately, news is good on this one - Extractor works precisely as stated, resulting in overall extraction rates as below (at level 175):

Blood Bloom: 75.0% Success Rate (Split 50:50 between Flower and Root)
Dark Shade: 77.0% Success Rate (Single Extract)
Heffle Wart: 82.4% Success Rate (Single Extract)
Trinettle: 79.4% Success Rate (Single Extract)
Jademare: 26.3% Success Rate (Single Extract)

Those numbers should give a rough guide as to what to expect (and how much to pay!) when buying and extracting plants. I'm sure the potion community knows this, but like much of my series this is all new to me!

Resource Finder

Now - we know how often we will get the extract we're after, but now we need to go out and get the resource we need. HCS is less helpful here, offering us an unspecified 'fixed percentage' roll if we don't get what we are after:

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I wanted to know what the percentage roll actually is - so ando got sent out to kill over 5000 creatures with resource drops, and I added in another 2500. That's a fairly large sample size, and our results are pretty conclusive:

With RF200:

Killed: 5558
Drops: 1752
Plants: 1629
RF Could Activate: 5385 times
RF Did Activate: 1580 times

Percentage Activation = 29.34% = 0.147% per point

With RF100:

Killed: 2600
Drops: 466
Plants: 399
RF Could Activate: 2514 times
RF Did Activate: 374 times

Percentage Activation = 14.87% = 0.149% per point

Based on these samples we both feel comfortable in concluding the Resource finder offers a fixed 0.15% per point chance of a drop, provided Find Item and Quest Finder both fail to activate.

Quest Finder

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I then repeated the research for Quest Finder, based on the same principle - no drop on the first round = an opportunity to activate.

Although my sample size here is only 520 potential activations with QF175, my result of 133 drops gives me:

Activation Percentage = 25.58% = 0.146% per point.

I believe that Quest Finder activates in the same way as Resource Finder, and with the same percentage chance per point - 0.15%.


When Should You Use Them?


The next obvious question is - is it better to use just Quest Finder/Resource Finder, or should you use a combination of Quest Finder/Resource Finder and Find Item for best results? I've assumed here that you are specifically looking for the quest or resource drops, and that the others are worthless to you - something which wouldn't be the case in the scavenging caves!

The answer is dependent on 2 things - the drops rate per item of the creature in question, and the number of drops that creature has. The following three contour charts illustrate this:

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We can clearly see that for low numbers of total creature drops, and a low drop rate per item. it is generally best to go with a combination of Quest/Resource Finder and Find Item. As the total number of drops goes up, we want to avoid the junk drops, so turn off find item, whilst still getting the full benefit of that 0.15% per point fixed roll!

Like I said, every creature will be different, but it isn't too hard to work out what you should be doing with a little effort - there isn't a 'one size fits all' answer to this question unfortunately!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I hope that was another interesting and informative read, and look forward to many more in the coming weeks!

RJEM

#2 Roan

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Posted 01 March 2011 - 00:52

Wow, thanks again :)

Firesinged_zpsd6b00c6e.png


#3 fs_nthnclls

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Posted 01 March 2011 - 02:17

These are always great to read, thanks for doing this. :)

#4 fs_xoulou

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Posted 01 March 2011 - 03:54

These are always great to read, thanks for doing this. :)


+1 Please keep it up. It's not your fault for programming errors.

#5 aa0007

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Posted 01 March 2011 - 04:14

nice job, didn't see this one coming ;)

#6 grimforest

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Posted 01 March 2011 - 08:42

cool 8) :D you da bomb RJEM and ando!!! :mrgreen:

#7 fs_abhishek11

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Posted 01 March 2011 - 10:35

Nice research really helpful ;)

#8 Trecar

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Posted 01 March 2011 - 12:04

I don't know if you have already done this, i couldn't find it if you had.
Nightmare Visage - at what point does it operate?
When the attack is transferred, does constitution work on the transferred amount, or just the shown defense stat?
Does Flinch lower the whole attack stat before any calcs, leaving the transferred amount reduced, or does it transfer the amount first and then flinch work on reducing the remainder?
If savagery activates during combat, does the transferred defense move to attack, then the total amount get used to calculate the amount transferred back over to defense?
If Shield Strike activates, does the NMV still transfer the amount back over to defense after the defense stat has beed reduced to zero?
Fancy taking on the challenge? :D

By the way, you do fantastic stuff. Not sure how, but you really do research these subjects well. Congrats!

#9 livingsin

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Posted 01 March 2011 - 15:23

ok to answer the NMV question really fast....this is to the best of my knowledge talking with MANY pvp'rs and then even a HCS employee over this matter


constitution-works on your def BEFORE NMV

Flinch-Reduces attack before NMV takes effect

Savagery- Was always my understanding this activates before NMV and then NMV transfers back to defense

Shield Strike-I dont know this one....normally if i'm using NMV I'm not using SS


*edit* This is just what I've been told and always used for my calculations...seemed to work pretty well

#10 Davros81

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Posted 01 March 2011 - 16:20

Can you stop doing these posts as they encourage the cows to ruin the game by changing things.

#11 RJEM

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Posted 01 March 2011 - 16:32

Can you stop doing these posts as they encourage the cows to ruin the game by changing things.


In short, no, sorry. I (and others) find them interesting, and as they aren't suggestions to change things (unless they turn out to be broken) it doesn't do any harm.

It isn't my fault there are long standing bugs in the game, and I'm still working hard to ensure playability remains high after the find item fix (which, for the umpteenth time, I did not suggest).

#12 Maehdros

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Posted 01 March 2011 - 16:50

ok to answer the NMV question really fast....this is to the best of my knowledge talking with MANY pvp'rs and then even a HCS employee over this matter


constitution-works on your def BEFORE NMV

Flinch-Reduces attack before NMV takes effect

Savagery- Was always my understanding this activates before NMV and then NMV transfers back to defense

Shield Strike-I dont know this one....normally if i'm using NMV I'm not using SS


*edit* This is just what I've been told and always used for my calculations...seemed to work pretty well





I always do the math as:


Flinch, Dark Curse,Fortitude,Constitution,Savagery,NMV.



Constitution effects fortitude,Wither and NMV do NOT. Wither only effects Items with HP stats, OR base HP.



I know this was a bit off the OP.. but just figured to add my 2cents.




btw Nice post RJEM. :)

#13 evilbry

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Posted 01 March 2011 - 19:16

10 mins of trial and error will give you a pretty good indication of how buffs like nmv works. Those who put the time in have a decent grasp on it ;)

#14 aa0007

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Posted 03 March 2011 - 01:19

you know what you should do next?

Is scavenging related to servers :P

#15 kKo

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Posted 03 March 2011 - 04:45

Great, thanks RJEM! =)

Awesome work, again :)

#16 Trecar

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Posted 03 March 2011 - 12:56

10 mins of trial and error will give you a pretty good indication of how buffs like nmv works. Those who put the time in have a decent grasp on it ;)


Well, i don't PvP, so "putting the time in" means risking a conflict, which you might have noticed are few and far between right now. But thanks for the helpful advice.... :roll:

#17 fs_oblivion05

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Posted 04 March 2011 - 14:17

10 mins of trial and error will give you a pretty good indication of how buffs like nmv works. Those who put the time in have a decent grasp on it ;)


Well, i don't PvP, so "putting the time in" means risking a conflict, which you might have noticed are few and far between right now. But thanks for the helpful advice.... :roll:


When did he say anything about PvP? Go test it against creatures if you're afraid to PvP.

#18 Trecar

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Posted 04 March 2011 - 14:31

10 mins of trial and error will give you a pretty good indication of how buffs like nmv works. Those who put the time in have a decent grasp on it ;)


Well, i don't PvP, so "putting the time in" means risking a conflict, which you might have noticed are few and far between right now. But thanks for the helpful advice.... :roll:


When did he say anything about PvP? Go test it against creatures if you're afraid to PvP.


It isn't a question of being afraid to PvP. I simply put far too much stamina into helping my guild instead of myself. Try it, you might like it....but what it does mean is that i hardly get a chance to level anyway, now that we are constantly on the defense with new GvG rules.
So trying to reach level 600 to provide more buffs for my guild is increasingly a distant goal, even without spending stamina on other pursuits.
But clearly, you think everyone should be into PvP, and that fear is the driving motive keeping them out of it.... :roll:

#19 fs_oblivion05

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Posted 04 March 2011 - 14:36

I simply put far too much stamina into helping my guild instead of myself. Try it, you might like it....


Assuming I don't is just hilariously stupid. :roll:

but what it does mean is that i hardly get a chance to level anyway, now that we are constantly on the defense with new GvG rules.


I understand that - it's the same here honestly. But hey, there's an opportunity for you or any of your guildmates to test buffs like NMV while on the defensive side of conflicts ;)

But clearly, you think everyone should be into PvP


I don't, I just find it funny that once something is said everyone points a finger onto PvP. :roll:

#20 Trecar

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Posted 04 March 2011 - 14:53

Y'know, i had this rather eloquent response all typed out. But really, i just don't care enough. Go ahead, think i was pointing fingers. Think that i was doing anything other than asking a simple question to try to understand some of the game mechanics a bit better. Think the guy wasn't taking a shot at me for not doing the research myself.....it really doesn't matter....
I mentioned PvP because trying to work things like that out in GvG is pretty stupid. Yeah, perhaps i could do it against creatures, but honestly i don't need to know that badly either.....i asked a straight forward question, got the sort of haughty response i am getting used to on here, and that's about that....


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