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#61 fs_avalbane

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Posted 04 March 2011 - 14:50

Eh. Crystalline isn't repairable for a reason. I agree with scrogger on this one. UB 190 + Distil, let alone UB 200 alone, is all you need to retain your crystalline pieces for many, many levels without any durability loss.

#62 taker2

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Posted 04 March 2011 - 14:57

i like this idea :) Actully master smith pot should be made to do this job
thats its give u 75% chance to success and repair 25% of crystalline durabilty and 25% chance to fail and drop 25% durabilty :P


see i like this idea ... even better :P ...

#63 Maehdros

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Posted 04 March 2011 - 15:05

Crystalline = unrepairable. No need to change that.It's meant to be broken. And most times ( other then disarm or erosion) it lasts a hella long time.

#64 fs_c00k13puss

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Posted 04 March 2011 - 15:40

I'm of the opinion that all these new potions are overkill and make this game less interesting...

#65 delver

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Posted 04 March 2011 - 15:42

Fury has been reduced to 350. Extraction has changed to Inventor 250.



Could I get a refund for the stam, gold and fsp i used to create Fury 450 (to end up with a lesser product which is therefor less valuable)?

It's the second time in a row this happens. It also happened with the KE pot being dropped in level. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate you listen to feedback, but perhaps it would be better to listen to feedback BEFORE you release something instead of releasing it and then changing it, causing loss to those who have already committed themselves to it.

#66 DaleJunior

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Posted 04 March 2011 - 15:47

Though it may be tempting to some-I really don't think that inv 300 would be a good thing,Inventing is pretty hard with some items and it should stay like that-rather change that extractor to something else..


Well, it could be Inventor 200 if 300 is a touch high.

Gimme some constructive feedback Guys!


Since nobody really knows exactly how Inventor works what about some testing first to see how much it actually increases the likelihood of a successful invent instead of just shouting "NOOO it's overpowered". I have still had failures on "Extremely High Chance of Success" inventions. Why doesn't someone test out this new Inventor 300 potion on something with an average or lower chance to invent and after they've done everything else they can to max out master inventor, see how much it increases the inventing chance compared to Inventor 175? If it raises something from an Average chance to Above Average I really don't see the harm in that.

On a side note, sometimes I think that you react too quickly to the response of a few players who say something is overpowered or who do not like something, BEFORE they've actually had a chance to use it. You really have to take a look at the first few players who respond when new things are introduced and you'll notice that it's usually the same few players, some of whom have ulterior motives in not wanting certain items introduced into the game because it will mess with their own in game economics. Not everyone is interested in what's best for the game like a couple are.

I really do wish that when you introduce something new you would just take more time with it.

#67 fs_c00k13puss

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Posted 04 March 2011 - 15:48

and what about FI? is that actually going to stay 'broken'?

#68 BigGrim

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Posted 04 March 2011 - 15:51

and what about FI? is that actually going to stay 'broken'?


It's not broken. It's fixed. This has been said several times now.

#69 Placeboo

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Posted 04 March 2011 - 15:53

and what about FI? is that actually going to stay 'broken'?


It's not broken. It's fixed. This has been said several times now.


You have created drop rates for years while taking into account the "broken" drop rate. Now that it is fixed - perhaps it is time to consider adjusting the drop rate that you initially set to satisfy your player base?

-----

On topic:
Please stop releasing more and more powerful potions. The game is good the way it is - make something new instead of releasing items that break pvp/market etc.

Im stunned that these sort of pots are released while theres new pots like buff master 200 being put into arena and HF90 CA100 are still spawning

#70 DaleJunior

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Posted 04 March 2011 - 16:04

Fury has been reduced to 350. Extraction has changed to Inventor 250.


Prior to you making this post I counted the people who commented on your proposed Inventor 300 buff. It was an even 4/4 split on those who wanted it and those who didn't want it. This is certainly not an overwhelming majority who thought it was overpowered. Also, basing a decision on something that will affect the entire game on the opinions of 4 people doesn't really seem right in my opinion. There were also those who were in favor of the Fury 450 pot, though a couple more wanted it to be lower. But again, fewer than 10 people decide the fate of the entire game. I think what people are trying to tell you, Grim, with all due respect, is to try to get a little MORE feedback before making sweeping changes, that's all.

#71 Removed20081

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Posted 04 March 2011 - 16:31

Fury has been reduced to 350. Extraction has changed to Inventor 250.


Prior to you making this post I counted the people who commented on your proposed Inventor 300 buff. It was an even 4/4 split on those who wanted it and those who didn't want it. This is certainly not an overwhelming majority who thought it was overpowered. Also, basing a decision on something that will affect the entire game on the opinions of 4 people doesn't really seem right in my opinion. There were also those who were in favor of the Fury 450 pot, though a couple more wanted it to be lower. But again, fewer than 10 people decide the fate of the entire game. I think what people are trying to tell you, Grim, with all due respect, is to try to get a little MORE feedback before making sweeping changes, that's all.


This was my point exactly hahaha :D

#72 Savanc

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Posted 04 March 2011 - 16:38

and what about FI? is that actually going to stay 'broken'?


It's not broken. It's fixed. This has been said several times now.

You have created drop rates for years while taking into account the "broken" drop rate. Now that it is fixed - perhaps it is time to consider adjusting the drop rate that you initially set to satisfy your player base?

-----

On topic:
Please stop releasing more and more powerful potions. The game is good the way it is - make something new instead of releasing items that break pvp/market etc.

I agree on both though I have things to add. 8)
(HCS, it's not meant as a complaint; just as advice) :)

The FI has indeed been fixed so that the difference between using no FI and using FI are reasonably again. And I'm glad you guys did that. :D
But I guess the drop rates of a lot of the newer items have been based on the broken FI values. It's a good thing the drop rates for potions in the scavenging caves have been adjusted (I have no idea by how much though so I won't get any deeper into that). Yet I wonder if the drop rates of other things are high enough now that FI has been fixed to its intended values. The fix on FI effectively lowered drop rates by a factor 5.5 on FI1000 (for FI800 it's 5 times as low and with FI175 it's 2.34 times as low than before). In my opinion the (effectively lower) drop rates work well with the SEs (most have been around for ages), but I'm just wondering if the fix won't result in some prices going berserk (for instance on newly introduced LE items) because the chance of getting an item has dropped considerably. :?

Some of the newer potions have been way too powerful when released and can have considerable effect on other aspects of the game.
First of all, more powerful potions will a lot of the times mean an increased gap between rich and poor (those who can afford and who can't). Of course potions can be cheap and powerful at the same time, but then it's basically a win button (imagine that the price of EW1500 pots drops to 50k gold).
All of the potions that have been released in the Arena have a price that 95% of the players can't afford and most of the rest doesn't want to spend on it. Only a few really want to use those potions (mainly power-levelers I guess).
The invention potions are much more affordable to the majority of the players, but if potions are too powerful then it becomes a win button. DC225 is affordable to most players and it nearly halves the defense of an opponent (making defense-based offline suit nearly useless and rendering the defense stats of creatures a laughing matter most of the time).

Another problem with some overpowered potions are those with stat decreasing aspects. Stat increasing skills (they raise your own stats, like Fury, Berserk and Constitution) can give players quite a bonus, but potions with a too high level of stat decreasing skills can easily break the game. These stat decreasing skills lower the stats of your opponent, like Dark Curse, Flinch and Super Elite Slayer. Conserve and Light Foot also work like this as they lower stamina use. Take for instance Dark Curse; it lowers the other person's defense. If the level of DC reaches 500 then defense becomes 0, but even a DC pot of level 300 will make defense virtually useless. Releasing LF and Conserve pots of a too high level can easily break the game. Conserve and LF 2000 means a person won't use any stamina at all. :shock: But even potions that decrease skills/stam use by 50% or even 25% are in my opinion too powerful.

Personally I like the concept of the new AM250 pot because AM is a buff that is more useful the lower your Doubler and LF are. So it's much more useful for the people who can't afford big and shiny buffs. Too bad the price is out of reach for those who benefit the most from it. :roll:

#73 fs_tangtop

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Posted 04 March 2011 - 16:58

Nice post Savanc.

#74 robinbanks

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Posted 04 March 2011 - 17:05

Fury has been reduced to 350. Extraction has changed to Inventor 250.


Prior to you making this post I counted the people who commented on your proposed Inventor 300 buff. It was an even 4/4 split on those who wanted it and those who didn't want it. This is certainly not an overwhelming majority who thought it was overpowered. Also, basing a decision on something that will affect the entire game on the opinions of 4 people doesn't really seem right in my opinion. There were also those who were in favor of the Fury 450 pot, though a couple more wanted it to be lower. But again, fewer than 10 people decide the fate of the entire game. I think what people are trying to tell you, Grim, with all due respect, is to try to get a little MORE feedback before making sweeping changes, that's all.


This was my point exactly hahaha :D


As i slept, new potions were released.
As i slept, new potions were changed.
Geez... how about waiting for a little more input.
My input.

Nice changes.

#75 Savanc

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Posted 04 March 2011 - 17:07

Nice post Savanc.

Thanks, Tangtop. I like to give people something to read. 8)

#76 fs_tangtop

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Posted 04 March 2011 - 17:22

Nice post Savanc.

Thanks, Tangtop. I like to give people something to read. 8)

Hopefully it provokes some thought too :P

#77 kofc14987

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Posted 04 March 2011 - 18:42

and what about FI? is that actually going to stay 'broken'?


It's not broken. It's fixed. This has been said several times now.


Yeah, its fixed, its just the drop rates which are ridiculous. I hunted last night on 15k stam with 20 open bp spots and filled 10 using fi1k distilled. For common gear, that's a bit extreme. Let's not get into quests that require component drops which the cows released into the game many levels ahead of me.

#78 fs_c00k13puss

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Posted 04 March 2011 - 19:54

and what about FI? is that actually going to stay 'broken'?


It's not broken. It's fixed. This has been said several times now.


Yeah, its fixed, its just the drop rates which are ridiculous. I hunted last night on 15k stam with 20 open bp spots and filled 10 using fi1k distilled. For common gear, that's a bit extreme. Let's not get into quests that require component drops which the cows released into the game many levels ahead of me.



I thought the point behind FI 1000 was that it was the most powerful find item buff out there. And now that it's become practically worthless what does that make all the other FI potions? less than dirt if you ask me. And what about the skill? lower level FI potions are incredibly cheap since nobody wants or uses them (so low level players don't even need the skill) and if FI 1000 can hardly help find common items I can only imagine how laughable using the skill would be.

#79 Savanc

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Posted 04 March 2011 - 19:58

and what about FI? is that actually going to stay 'broken'?


It's not broken. It's fixed. This has been said several times now.

Yeah, its fixed, its just the drop rates which are ridiculous. I hunted last night on 15k stam with 20 open bp spots and filled 10 using fi1k distilled. For common gear, that's a bit extreme. Let's not get into quests that require component drops which the cows released into the game many levels ahead of me.

Indeed, drop rates are a bit out of sync with the FI effects right now.

Also drop rates haven't changed that much over the years, but Doubler has. We used to kill hundreds of creatures to get a level, so if a creature dropped items with a low drop rate then it was no big deal; we just hunted and saw a lot of items fill our BPs. On a level that takes around 2000 stamina to level up, using the old DB150 made us kill 500 creatures and (if the droprate is around 0.5% for each item) we get around 2.5 copies of each item (without FI). When Doubler 450 and 500 came around this was decreased to killing 180-200 creatures and getting 1 copy of each item without FI. Now that quite some people also use Doubler 750 or Doubler 1200 we kill around 125 (DB750) or 80 (DB1200) creatures per level and get 0.625 to 0.4 copies of each item.

People will now have to either:
1) hunt first and after the hunt get back to smack another hundred creatures for the desired item
2) disable Doubler to smack creatures around until they drop the item you want and then hunt with a new Doubler potion
3) hunt with Doubler until the creature drops the desired item. Lots of subleveling though.

We use higher Doublers now compared to what we used years ago. Doubler acts as if we smack the creatures a lot harder. They give more gold and XP so it looks like they died multiple times, but they don't drop more items.

Maybe it would be a good idea if Doubler has some kind of effect on drop rates too.

For example, for every 50 levels of Doubler the drop rate is increased by 10%. So a drop rate of 0.5% becomes 0.55% with Doubler 50, 0.6% with Doubler 100, ... , 1.25% with Doubler 1200. In the above example (with 2k stamina per level) people with Doubler 450, 750 and 1200 have the number of drops per item increased from 1, 0.625 and 0.4 to 1.9, 1.5625 and 1.36 (compared to 10 if no Doubler is used and 2.5 with Doubler 150).
That way getting some drops during hunts is still likely to happen. 8)

#80 Savanc

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Posted 04 March 2011 - 20:12

I thought the point behind FI 1000 was that it was the most powerful find item buff out there. And now that it's become practically worthless what does that make all the other FI potions? less than dirt if you ask me. And what about the skill? lower level FI potions are incredibly cheap since nobody wants or uses them (so low level players don't even need the skill) and if FI 1000 can hardly help find common items I can only imagine how laughable using the skill would be.

Based on the skill description it was obvious the skill was worthless as a buff.
0.1% increase in drop rate? Even a level 175 buff would only add 17.5% so for every number of kills that normally give you 6 drops you'd now get 7... Whoopie yeay! :roll:

Now that FI is adjusted to its intended values the effective drop rates with FI might have dropped, but the price of items will rise as well. So using FI has even more use than before. I rather have double the drop rate (with the 'new' FI1000) on a (now) valuable item than getting 11 times the drop rate (with the 'old' FI1000) on a (previously) near worthless item. In the new situation I end up with a few valuable items and in the old situation I would end up with lots of items that sell for barely anything.
New: Lots of kills -> a few items * high price = some FSPs
Old: Lots of kills -> lots of items * low price = the same amount of FSPs


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