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An Open Letter to HCS


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#1 RJEM

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Posted 31 March 2011 - 22:43

Dear HCS,

I'm extremely concerned about the current state of affairs in game development and community management and wanted to let you know my thoughts openly so that others can contribute their own ideas on what is a very large issue.

Firstly, let me start of by saying I appreciate the work you guys are doing on the new interface. In the long run I think it will be awesome for the game and I fully expect to enjoy playing the game more when it goes fully operational. The idea behind it is excellent and I think most players agree that once the current bugs are ironed out and the speed bolstered it will be great. The new tooltips may not be everyone's cup of tea, but they are at least showing progress towards an end goal.

That being said, I feel that the past couple of weeks have seen a neglect of real, live issues in the main game which are not being given their due attention. Just because a new feature is being prepared should not mean the rest of the game is left to wait. The current and growing list of outstanding bugs and fixes includes (but is by no means limited to):

- Major display and combat issues when using Internet explorer (viewtopic.php?f=1&t=102077);
- A bug in the show active buffs Javascript which means the helper team can't show their summary info;
- Continued failure to implement promised tweaks to the drop rates for important creatures (over 2 months since the Find Item fix and elites, champions and quest creatures are still too tough)(viewtopic.php?f=1&t=102120);
- Large delay in the release of new content (which is not code related, so should surely be unaffected by the map interface!)(viewtopic.php?f=1&t=101868);
- Problems remaining with the PvP ladder (viewtopic.php?f=1&t=101820 viewtopic.php?f=1&t=101075);
- Arena fixes started MONTHS ago still outstanding (viewtopic.php?f=1&t=101685);
- Major bug in PvP where a level 19 can seemingly hit anyone in any range (viewtopic.php?f=1&t=102031)

That's a snapshot of the problems I have read and heard about recently, but every game can live with a few bugs here and there. What I am vastly more concerned about is the lack of response from HCS on these important issues. No comments on either the more recent FI threads, the PvP bug which is a blatant coding error or the huge issues some people seem to be having on Internet Explorer. No comment either on what is being worked on in regard to the other issues mentioned above.

In short, I'm disappointed at the thundering silence we're experiencing in the main game whilst JT does his best fielding questions in the Alpha Feedback forum - which has been a breath of fresh air. Prompt, positive and reliable feedback has meant a much better update process there, and issues are being identified and fixed nice and quickly. Having someone to talk to who then sorts things out is a wonderful thing, and when Hoof and JT were both on IRC we saw exactly how fast things can be done when they are brought up 'live'. More of this is sorely needed.

I fully understand that Hoof is the only one with powers to change the main game behind the scenes, but player interaction and acknowledgement of the issues (not just a cursory 'We will look into it', but a real understanding of the underlying problem) can be done by anyone on the HCS team. Please remember that the game survives because of players enjoying it now, not on the promise of something wonderful in the future. I hope you take this letter the correct way, as an incentive to fix what is broken before running off down another tangent with the planned GvG update. I just can't see that being as important as the fundamentals of the game.

I remain hopeful that with a concerted push Fallen Sword will boom once again - but that push needs to be one of consolidation as well as expansion. Too many past updates have been pushed out and then abandoned when the next big thing comes along, leaving a half implemented product which could be great but ends up running out of steam on the home straight. I feel this needs to stop, and I know at least a small group of players will be thinking along similar lines to me.

Thank you for reading.

Yours Faithfully,

RJEM

#2 evilbry

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Posted 31 March 2011 - 22:51

I have basically given up reporting bugs through the ticket system, as they take a minimum of 6 weeks to even be looked at by devs.

IRC is simply a means of playing favourites, as can be seen by the alpha being made available to the IRC users ahead of anyone else. Being a player run and managed interface, this is poor form. It should be managed by HCS, otherwise power-hungry kids pick and choose who are allowed access, based on how they feel, leaving a far from impartial interface for getting feedback to resolve issues.

#3 RJEM

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Posted 31 March 2011 - 22:54

I have basically given up reporting bugs through the ticket system, as they take a minimum of 6 weeks to even be looked at by devs.

IRC is simply a means of playing favourites, as can be seen by the alpha being made available to the IRC users ahead of anyone else. Being a player run and managed interface, this is poor form. It should be managed by HCS, otherwise power-hungry kids pick and choose who are allowed access, based on how they feel, leaving a far from impartial interface for getting feedback to resolve issues.


Regardless of those issues (which I do agree with, it should be an official channel and not a player run one) the direct interaction is far, far better than anything else we have seen recently. The fact that the ticketing system is being bypassed by experienced players just strengthens arguments for a better system (whatever that may be).

In short - against favouritism, pro-interaction. I'm sure you'd agree with that :)

#4 evilbry

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Posted 31 March 2011 - 23:02

I have basically given up reporting bugs through the ticket system, as they take a minimum of 6 weeks to even be looked at by devs.

IRC is simply a means of playing favourites, as can be seen by the alpha being made available to the IRC users ahead of anyone else. Being a player run and managed interface, this is poor form. It should be managed by HCS, otherwise power-hungry kids pick and choose who are allowed access, based on how they feel, leaving a far from impartial interface for getting feedback to resolve issues.


Regardless of those issues (which I do agree with, it should be an official channel and not a player run one) the direct interaction is far, far better than anything else we have seen recently. The fact that the ticketing system is being bypassed by experienced players just strengthens arguments for a better system (whatever that may be).

In short - against favouritism, pro-interaction. I'm sure you'd agree with that :)

What baffles me is why the forums would not be allowed mods, yet they encourage people to use a player run service, moderated by players.. Because of this, It means the op's can pick and choose who they want feedback to be given by based on who they like. one certain op, has banned more than a few, for frivolous reasons. For a Professional company to then recommend it to players leaves a lot to be desired. If they want to do a live chat, run their own server for the time they need it. Takes 5 mins to set up, and they more than have the means.

#5 Sustortias

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Posted 31 March 2011 - 23:44

I see where rjem is coming from on this.

I might not be a hardcore speed leveller or eoc player but really those are the minority in terms of players across the board.

I don't even know why HCS has bothered releasing a 'testbeta' for the new map system, it's bad form really.

Most games companys would only release a fully bug tested and working version of such a radical change as this is looking to be.
I can understand they want to show it to players first, but as a test version for players to test?
Doesn't inspire much confidence tbh.

It's one thing to have nice juicy looking dangly carrots to look forward too but as has been pointed out, there are so many unbalanced factors in the main game just now and issues long overdue of being fixed that an early release of the 'new map system', albeit on the face of it, looks good, is the last thing the game needs right now when so much other things need ironing out.

As for players helping them make the decisions, it might work out for some small issues, but really the devs should have a full on test team of there own, then issues would never arise, let alone be in need of fixing.

I understand the few coder(s) involved in the game work hard but some issues seem to go on and on, get fixed, then need fixing again, then get canned (re gvg), it's been like this for a long time.

In a good game, bugs happen and get fixed rapidly, all possible testing is done to keep bugs to a minimum.

I hope i'm wrong and it all clicks into place. Just seems a long way to go about it is all.

My two cents.

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#6 fs_andypearce

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Posted 01 April 2011 - 00:20

Yup, a lot of these issues need sorting, but it seems to take way too long, a few things bug me too, we need forum mods, and we have way too much needless locking of topics, all of these points in the list and more is why this games numbers are dwindling.

#7 iceman66

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Posted 01 April 2011 - 00:34

RJEM makes some extremely valid points. We all understand that this new map system is a big deal, but I thought that HCS had a team so that more than one thing can get done at once. This is the longest we've waited for content in like 1 year, and that leaves a horrible taste in my mouth. And at this point, content seems to be the least of my worries.

The coding aspects of this game are FUBAR'd at this moment and need fixing. There are so many small things that need tweaking that have all been reported and mentioned by other players, but have not even been looked at. The direction this game is going angers me because it's stuff that won't take long to fix.

JT has been the most active and helpful member of the HCS team these past couple weeks and needs some recognition. Where is everyone else? Hooftest has been inactive for 3 days, and before that, he was inactive for over a week. This shows a complete lack of attention and that is super lame. It really seems as if all of HCS is hiding from the problems in this game. Call me a whiner, I don't care. I play this game because I like it. Now, I almost have to force myself to log on just because nothing ever gets dealt with...nothing ever gets answered. Empty promises HCS, that is all I see and I can't be the only one who sees this.

#8 yodamus

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Posted 01 April 2011 - 00:55

+1 , i now only login to rotate ah and check to see if possible to join an arena battle...the rest of the game is unenjoyable as most of it does not work properly..where have all the cows gone ?

#9 Denyza

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Posted 01 April 2011 - 03:18

I wouldn't mind if they postpone the new map for a year or two, and start to fix problems which really matter.

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#10 Denyza

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Posted 01 April 2011 - 03:31

I wouldn't mind if they postpone the new map for a year or two, and start to fix problems which really matter.

But for all we know, the new map is essential to attracting new players in the current market for web based games.

Hahaha, sorry. Seriously? A lame-o flashgame look-a-like map would attract more people to play?
LoL :lol:
But I do admit, people could be really dumb sometimes, XD

But the way I see it, this new map is just sugar toppings to hide the problems beneath. There's a lot of other aspect in this game kills the new user, and I highly doubt a new map would be enough to make them want to stay. Isn't the point is to make people donate, instead of just sign-in and leave 3 days later?
:roll:

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#11 evilbry

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Posted 01 April 2011 - 03:37

I wouldn't mind if they postpone the new map for a year or two, and start to fix problems which really matter.

Of course a 'Fracker' would want the new map delayed so they can keep lightwalking titans.

no surprises there really :)

#12 grimforest

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Posted 01 April 2011 - 05:04

i agree with what has been said here.( the games becoming a joke) ask me (case by case) if you want to know but for the most part i seem to always end up agreeing with Rjem! lol

#13 fs_ogrvity

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Posted 01 April 2011 - 06:02

Dear HCS,
I'm extremely concerned about the current state of affairs in game development and community management and wanted to let you know my thoughts openly so that others can contribute their own ideas on what is a very large issue....

Thank you for reading.
Yours Faithfully,
RJEM

I think this can easily be changed to EVERYONE'S THOUGHTS. I know the vast majority of the forum folks will disagree with me, but in my opinion the demise of this once great game started when HCS skewed almost every aspect of the game towards PvP. This made a small but very vocal portion of the current FS players extremely happy, but also turned off a large portion of the games core players...not to mention turning away most of the new players (players needed to sustain the game) that found their way to FS only to get fleeced day after day. Since then it has been one wrong turn followed by another just as bad....with band aid after band aid used to try and cover up the mis-steps taken.

I have tried to keep up hope that the game will once again return to it's previous greatness, but with the current state of affairs and the utter lack of concern shown by HCS that hope has all but disappeared.

#14 DragonLord

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Posted 01 April 2011 - 06:25

Dear HCS,
I'm extremely concerned about the current state of affairs in game development and community management and wanted to let you know my thoughts openly so that others can contribute their own ideas on what is a very large issue....

Thank you for reading.
Yours Faithfully,
RJEM

I think this can easily be changed to EVERYONE'S THOUGHTS. I know the vast majority of the forum folks will disagree with me, but in my opinion the demise of this once great game started when HCS skewed almost every aspect of the game towards PvP.


You'll get no argument from me there :) - PvP is the golden child it seems, at the expense of everything else in the game. Any other aspect of the game, you have a choice about whether you participate in it or not, but not PvP. Most other aspects of the game leave you alone, if you leave them alone - but no, PvP bites you on the butt whether you want it to or not. And, to add insult to injury, if you don't want it to, you get told to stump up an extortionate amount of FSP's to prevent that aspect from affecting your game. I would have to agree with you that the new PvP emphasis is driving players away - I know several who have left because of it, including at least one BIG donator ...

*waits for the inevitable Luis comment about PvP always being part of the game, suck it up, yada yada yada :) ... *

#15 iceman66

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Posted 01 April 2011 - 07:00

Dear HCS,
I'm extremely concerned about the current state of affairs in game development and community management and wanted to let you know my thoughts openly so that others can contribute their own ideas on what is a very large issue....

Thank you for reading.
Yours Faithfully,
RJEM

I think this can easily be changed to EVERYONE'S THOUGHTS. I know the vast majority of the forum folks will disagree with me, but in my opinion the demise of this once great game started when HCS skewed almost every aspect of the game towards PvP.


You'll get no argument from me there :) - PvP is the golden child it seems, at the expense of everything else in the game. Any other aspect of the game, you have a choice about whether you participate in it or not, but not PvP. Most other aspects of the game leave you alone, if you leave them alone - but no, PvP bites you on the butt whether you want it to or not. And, to add insult to injury, if you don't want it to, you get told to stump up an extortionate amount of FSP's to prevent that aspect from affecting your game. I would have to agree with you that the new PvP emphasis is driving players away - I know several who have left because of it, including at least one BIG donator ...

*waits for the inevitable Luis comment about PvP always being part of the game, suck it up, yada yada yada :) ... *



That is also an extremely valid point you make Pardoux. This has turned into more of a PvP game than a MMORPG. Luis can say all he wants, but he will not be able argue against the fact that other, non-pvp aspects of this game have been extremely neglected this past year or so. The new skills themselves prove that. I am fairly confident that I am up there among the people who have donated ridiculous amounts of money to this game, and lately I wonder why. That is not good for business, and I would not be surprised if this thread is locked later this evening. I guess all we can do is try to be as vocal as PvP'ers and hope HCS listens.

Edit #1: I have nothing against PvP as I partake in it as well. But I also partake in other aspects more than PvP, and this blatant disregard of those aspects from HCS is getting tiresome.

#16 RJEM

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Posted 01 April 2011 - 08:17

Thanks for the comments so far everyone.

I want to reiterate that I do believe the map display update will be an excellent change once it is working properly, on everyone's browser, and with appropriate tutorials in place for how to enable Javascript if it isn't working etc.

However, there are other more serious issues which also need urgent attention from HCS - up until this Beta was announced I can't recall anyone having an issue with movement or the map in general and yet this has been hugely prioritised - and with the next update to GvG seemingly 'locked in' the space and scope for other work seems to be diminishing daily.

On a more personal note, please keep this thread as free as possible of personal attacks and accusations - I'd love it if we kept one thread alive long enough to be seen by HCS and read (without 10 pages of spam interspersed by the odd genuine comment).

Regards,

RJEM

#17 sweetlou

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Posted 01 April 2011 - 09:07

- Major display and combat issues when using Internet explorer (viewtopic.php?f=1&t=102077);
- A bug in the show active buffs Javascript which means the helper team can't show their summary info;
- Continued failure to implement promised tweaks to the drop rates for important creatures (over 2 months since the Find Item fix and elites, champions and quest creatures are still too tough)(viewtopic.php?f=1&t=102120);
- Large delay in the release of new content (which is not code related, so should surely be unaffected by the map interface!)(viewtopic.php?f=1&t=101868);
- Problems remaining with the PvP ladder (viewtopic.php?f=1&t=101820 viewtopic.php?f=1&t=101075);
- Arena fixes started MONTHS ago still outstanding (viewtopic.php?f=1&t=101685);
- Major bug in PvP where a level 19 can seemingly hit anyone in any range (viewtopic.php?f=1&t=102031)

It's a great punch list RJEM. Lets see if they can tackle some of it within a reasonable amount of time, namely this year. We'll see.

*waits for the inevitable Luis comment about PvP always being part of the game, suck it up, yada yada yada :) ... *

I don't need to say anything when you do it for me. If players want to continue playing as fast as they can to EOC they are more then welcome by HCS I'm positive. Historically, there has always been a group of players who aren't satisfied with the pace of new content release. You notice that the players who have been at EOC longer have basically accepted the fact content will arrive at some point and don't continually make a stink about it.

Luis can say all he wants, but he will not be able argue against the fact that other, non-pvp aspects of this game have been extremely neglected this past year or so. The new skills themselves prove that.

Hahaha, non-PvP neglect must be what's happening... HCS has strategically dangled the proverbial carrot of new xp based skills ahead of us. They are there. You just can't touch them.

I desperately miss the interaction with Hoof in the forums. When he's around things get done. No offense intended to the others but he is the catalyst by which the game grows. My gut tells me that company growth is outpacing product growth. Let's see if they can throw some TLC at their bread and butter, FS.

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#18 fs_jt

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Posted 01 April 2011 - 09:57

IRC is simply a means of playing favourites, as can be seen by the alpha being made available to the IRC users ahead of anyone else.

I did invite everyone along :c viewtopic.php?f=1&t=101579

Regardless of those issues (which I do agree with, it should be an official channel and not a player run one) the direct interaction is far, far better than anything else we have seen recently. The fact that the ticketing system is being bypassed by experienced players just strengthens arguments for a better system (whatever that may be).

In short - against favouritism, pro-interaction. I'm sure you'd agree with that :)


We may look into running an official IRC server in the future.

- Major display and combat issues when using Internet explorer (viewtopic.php?f=1&t=102077);

It's just a simple JavaScript error. It will be fixed either Today or Monday.

- A bug in the show active buffs Javascript which means the helper team can't show their summary info;

They all have my Email, MSN and IRC and this is the first I've heard of it.

The rest of the stuff, I have no involvement with so I can't comment.

#19 RJEM

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Posted 01 April 2011 - 10:06

IRC is simply a means of playing favourites, as can be seen by the alpha being made available to the IRC users ahead of anyone else.

I did invite everyone along :c viewtopic.php?f=1&t=101579

Regardless of those issues (which I do agree with, it should be an official channel and not a player run one) the direct interaction is far, far better than anything else we have seen recently. The fact that the ticketing system is being bypassed by experienced players just strengthens arguments for a better system (whatever that may be).

In short - against favouritism, pro-interaction. I'm sure you'd agree with that :)


We may look into running an official IRC server in the future.

- Major display and combat issues when using Internet explorer (viewtopic.php?f=1&t=102077);

It's just a simple JavaScript error. It will be fixed either Today or Monday.

- A bug in the show active buffs Javascript which means the helper team can't show their summary info;

They all have my Email, MSN and IRC and this is the first I've heard of it.

The rest of the stuff, I have no involvement with so I can't comment.


Thanks JT - I did mention we all appreciate the fresh impetus you have brought to your areas of the game specifically and this is yet another example of that.

Most of us are out for what is best for the game and I'm simply trying to draw attention to issues I see as pressing :)

#20 fs_jt

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Posted 01 April 2011 - 10:10

Thanks JT - I did mention we all appreciate the fresh impetus you have brought to your areas of the game specifically and this is yet another example of that.

Most of us are out for what is best for the game and I'm simply trying to draw attention to issues I see as pressing :)


There is (and already was before your post) a post-it on my screen with the javascript stuff on it.


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