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Game Update v1.871


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#301 fs_mrwright

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 04:55

Only someone that was completely blind would say (and believe) that relics were not overpowered as they were. That being said, I approve of this update.

Keep the max per relic bonus at 3% and keep the cost of relics where it is or raise it back up. They SHOULD cost a lot for stat gains.

#302 Uncle Beg

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 05:00

We would like to hear your thoughts on the following:

1) What do you think of the current upkeep costs?

2) Do you think it should be changed to 5x instead of 3x for empowered relics? Changing it to 5x would mean you would need

2 empowered relics to max out a stat bonus (ie. 10%).

3) Do you think the upkeep for the second and third relic should have an additional cost (possibly add a multiplier to the

overall upkeep of all your relics)?

1. The upkeep OK.
2. Change to 5x if that is all you are offering. I think 10% for the first relic was fine. The abuse was when BIG guild owned 2+ 10% relics.
3. Definitely, having 2+ relic, the upkeep should be increased exponentially.

Here are my thoughts ...
1st relic:

[*:j5aft4a7]Maxed level = 10 ... Max Percentage = 10%
[*:j5aft4a7]Empower cost and upkeep cost per level (at 10%, Empower cost = 2,750,000 gold total and 50 gold per member)

[*:j5aft4a7]Empower cost = 50000 gold … Upkeep cost = 5 gold per member
[*:j5aft4a7]Empower cost = 100000 gold … Upkeep cost = 10 gold per member
[*:j5aft4a7]Empower cost = 150000 gold … Upkeep cost = 15 gold per member
[*:j5aft4a7]Empower cost = 200000 gold … Upkeep cost = 20 gold per member
[*:j5aft4a7]Empower cost = 250000 gold … Upkeep cost = 25 gold per member
[*:j5aft4a7]Empower cost = 300000 gold … Upkeep cost = 30 gold per member
[*:j5aft4a7]Empower cost = 350000 gold … Upkeep cost = 35 gold per member
[*:j5aft4a7]Empower cost = 400000 gold … Upkeep cost = 40 gold per member
[*:j5aft4a7]Empower cost = 450000 gold … Upkeep cost = 45 gold per member
[*:j5aft4a7]Empower cost = 500000 gold … Upkeep cost = 50 gold per member
[/list]2nd relic: (3 times the cost of the 1st relic)

[*:j5aft4a7]Maxed level = 5 ... Max Percentage = 5%
[*:j5aft4a7]Empower cost and upkeep cost per level (at 5%, Empower cost = 2,250,000 gold total and 75 gold per member)

[*:j5aft4a7]Empower cost = 150000 gold … Upkeep cost = 15 gold per member
[*:j5aft4a7]Empower cost = 300000 gold … Upkeep cost = 30 gold per member
[*:j5aft4a7]Empower cost = 450000 gold … Upkeep cost = 45 gold per member
[*:j5aft4a7]Empower cost = 600000 gold … Upkeep cost = 60 gold per member
[*:j5aft4a7]Empower cost = 750000 gold … Upkeep cost = 75 gold per member
[/list]3rd relic: (6 times the cost of 1st relic)

[*:j5aft4a7]Maxed level = 5 ... Max Percentage = 5%
[*:j5aft4a7]Empower cost and upkeep cost per level (at 5%, Empower cost = 4,500,000 gold total and 150 gold per member)

[*:j5aft4a7]Empower cost = 300000 gold … Upkeep cost = 30 gold per member
[*:j5aft4a7]Empower cost = 600000 gold … Upkeep cost = 60 gold per member
[*:j5aft4a7]Empower cost = 900000 gold … Upkeep cost = 90 gold per member
[*:j5aft4a7]Empower cost = 1200000 gold … Upkeep cost = 120 gold per member
[*:j5aft4a7]Empower cost = 1500000 gold … Upkeep cost = 150 gold per member
[/list]4th relic: (9 times the cost of 1st relic)

[*:j5aft4a7]Maxed level = 5 ... Max Percentage = 5%
[*:j5aft4a7]Empower cost and upkeep cost per level (at 5%, Empower cost = 6750000 gold total and 225 gold per member)

[*:j5aft4a7]Empower cost = 450000 gold … Upkeep cost = 45 gold per member
[*:j5aft4a7]Empower cost = 900000 gold … Upkeep cost = 90 gold per member
[*:j5aft4a7]Empower cost = 1350000 gold … Upkeep cost = 135 gold per member
[*:j5aft4a7]Empower cost = 1800000 gold … Upkeep cost = 180 gold per member
[*:j5aft4a7]Empower cost = 2250000 gold … Upkeep cost = 225 gold per member
[/list]

#303 BlackSun

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 05:12

Only someone that was completely blind would say (and believe) that relics were not overpowered as they were. That being said, I approve of this update.

Keep the max per relic bonus at 3% and keep the cost of relics where it is or raise it back up. They SHOULD cost a lot for stat gains.


Even for our 37 member guild, cost to empower the Pillars is 137 fsp per day. Every member would need to contribute nearly 4 million gold per week to break even. Thats not sustainable.

As it stands now, the prized +xp gain relics will never be empowered by anyone. What good does this do the game if no gold is sinked from those relics?

#304 fs_mattf

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 05:16

change it back

#305 fs_ogrvity

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 05:19

Only someone that was completely blind would say (and believe) that relics were not overpowered as they were. That being said, I approve of this update.

Keep the max per relic bonus at 3% and keep the cost of relics where it is or raise it back up. They SHOULD cost a lot for stat gains.


Even for our 37 member guild, cost to empower the Pillars is 137 fsp per day. Every member would need to contribute nearly 4 million gold per week to break even. Thats not sustainable.

As it stands now, the prized +xp gain relics will never be empowered by anyone. What good does this do the game if no gold is sinked from those relics?

How do you get that the cost will be 137 FSP's to empower every day?

#306 fs_sollimaw

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 05:19

1. Make 10% the max stat boost
2. Make it attainable from 1 relic
3. Keep upkeep costs the same or increase them
4. Remove all "gain" bonuses from Relics
5. Adjust all currently existing relics to provide at max, bonuses to 3 stats.

This would fix what was broke and not nerf relics completely.


1) The max is already 10% (changed in update v1.87)
2) If we make it 5x for stat bonuses and made some relics 2% instead 1% this would be possible.
3) The upkeep is probably ok (except for the relics with gold/xp gain)
4) Not sure about this.
5) Again not sure about this.


1. Fine.
2. 10% for holding *any* relic is fair. If some relics give 10% and others give only 5% it doesnt make any sense.
3.Upkeep is fine for now, but could logistically be raised if the bonuses were allowed to be 10% for any relic.
4. Gain bonuses should definitely never be modified, and so few relics have them that they should jsut be removed entirely.
5. Every relic above 700 has +1 to all stats. Reduce that to each relic only having a max of 3 stats and it would still be possible to reach 10% to al, but you would need to hold at least 2 relics and pay out the nose to do so.



#307 KitiaraLi

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 05:22

Okies, first I would like to join the crowd who asks, why did you ever bother to make a poll about it, when you don't care about the results of that poll, but goes on what a select few have said in a forum thread?

Secondly (and this would be the constructive part :wink: ) I assume this update, has to do with finally going for making the critters tougher to beat, and the gap inbetween those who hunt without relics, and those who hunt with +20% would make the hunting aspect of the game very unbalanced, so - I am all for cutting the relic bonus in half.

What I do not understand is why you make it so hard on yourself?

You want the max relic bonus to be 10% ? Then you implement that.
You want an upkeep cost on empowered relics? Then, implement that.

Why start the whole mess of needing a multitude of relics?

To maximize benefits of reducing the relic bonuses, roll back to the old system (aka 1 relic can go to 10%), including the way to empower it for the occasional gold sinking on failing to empower, and add the upkeep cost on top. This would cap off the bonus gained, evening out the playing field a bit more for PvP, reduce the easiness of hunting (slightly) and would give more guilds the option to get a "home" relic to fight for (since those who will want the 10% will only hold 1 relic now, instead of 2 for 20%).

Tbh, this isn't that hard to figure out, and I am puzzled as to why you had to go and make it so complicated.


Oh, and PLEASE whatever the outcome of this will be, make it so an relic loses it's empowerment automatically within 15 mins, if it is left undefended. Too many deals are cut in between guilds, so they don't have to actually spend stam on traveling to the relic to defend it.

And cap off gain bonuses to +1 (or the sad +2 it was b4 this change).

No one can deny that we changed this game and influenced it in such a way that NO ONE could compete with us.. so much so that they changed the rules. ~Abhorrence, chosen founder of Cerulean Sins


#308 BlackSun

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 05:23

Only someone that was completely blind would say (and believe) that relics were not overpowered as they were. That being said, I approve of this update.

Keep the max per relic bonus at 3% and keep the cost of relics where it is or raise it back up. They SHOULD cost a lot for stat gains.


Even for our 37 member guild, cost to empower the Pillars is 137 fsp per day. Every member would need to contribute nearly 4 million gold per week to break even. Thats not sustainable.

As it stands now, the prized +xp gain relics will never be empowered by anyone. What good does this do the game if no gold is sinked from those relics?

How do you get that the cost will be 137 FSP's to empower every day?


I rechecked my math, I must have forgot to carry a one.

Cost = 20050 gold per hour per member
20050 * 37 * 24 /150000 = 118 fsp / day

#309 fs_mrwright

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 05:32

I think it would do a lot of good...they're expensive, that's good. They should be. Your guild (or any guild) shouldn't hold relics for long stretches of time, that is detrimental to the game. Relics are a privilege to have, no one is entitled to their bonuses, despite the attitudes that imply otherwise.

EDIT: Yes, inactives should count towards upkeep. They're in the guild too.

#310 BlackSun

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 05:39

I wonder if the people who dont Arena will dictate future arena awards. Maybe people who don't PvP should get to decide what changes to the PvP system are needed.

You understand why I don't think anything some of you have to say matters don't you?

#311 fs_sirfinn

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 05:41

I can understand both sides of this argument. I have PvPed in the past and understand how players could be disgruntled with the 20% bonuses to players within guilds that were capable of holding them for max bonuses. However, I believe that this change may do more harm than good. Those same high level guilds will now need to hold more relics to get their max 10% bonus at the current state. This will mean they will be more aggressive in taking relics from the lower level guilds. At the cost to enhance a relic to max benefit, a lower level guild will not be able to afford a guild war where they gain full benefit. Futhermore, I believe people may be overlooking other factors. Players will be in need of the potions that were only used by higher level players if they intend to power-level and avoid wasting stamina. That will drive the prices of those pots up to a point where only the highest of leveled players will be able to afford them. Potions of fatality and truth already reach prices of 300-400k during peak hours. Can you imagine what they will be when they become a necessity at lower levels. I don't want to even consider what EW1500 pots will cost. I know everyone remembers when they jumped up past 10 FSP each. There were near riots. Hopefully, a compromise may be made for the mutual benefit of both higher and lower level guilds. I believe a 5% max on stat bonuses per relic is fair capping at 10%. Stamina and xp gains can cap at 2, or even 3, depending on what is deemed fair by a consensus of players that actually take part in forum conversations.

Please consider this option for the sake of all.

#312 fs_mattf

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 05:44

I can understand both sides of this argument. I have PvPed in the past and understand how players could be disgruntled with the 20% bonuses to players within guilds that were capable of holding them for max bonuses. However, I believe that this change may do more harm than good. Those same high level guilds will now need to hold more relics to get their max 10% bonus at the current state. This will mean they will be more aggressive in taking relics from the lower level guilds. At the cost to enhance a relic to max benefit, a lower level guild will not be able to afford a guild war where they gain full benefit. Futhermore, I believe people may be overlooking other factors. Players will be in need of the potions that were only used by higher level players if they intend to power-level and avoid wasting stamina. That will drive the prices of those pots up to a point where only the highest of leveled players will be able to afford them. Potions of fatality and truth already reach prices of 300-400k during peak hours. Can you imagine what they will be when they become a necessity at lower levels. I don't want to even consider what EW1500 pots will cost. I know everyone remembers when they jumped up past 10 FSP each. There were near riots. Hopefully, a compromise may be made for the mutual benefit of both higher and lower level guilds. I believe a 5% max on stat bonuses per relic is fair capping at 10%. Stamina and xp gains can cap at 2, or even 3, depending on what is deemed fair by a consensus of players that actually take part in forum conversations.

Please consider this option for the sake of all.

if this happens im just gona go back to playing zombies the new maps came out today so im good

#313 fs_mattf

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 05:51

Hi all,

In this latest update:

- Relic empowerment cost has been reduced.

- The new relic empowerment has been changed from a 2x bonus to a 3x bonus.

Note if you are having problems logging into the game forum, please clear your browser cookies and restart your browser.

~ The Fallen Sword Team

I OBJECT

#314 vamunre

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 06:09

how about we drop relics altogether but put out an EW 5000, sold only in Potion Bazaar 2.5 million gold, always in the bazaar. that will make up for the relic loss to the levelers

#315 fs_evilix

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 06:33

What it comes down to is the big boys and girls lost there shiny toys and now there kicking and screaming about it.The same players just 2 or 3 days ago were crying that the game was becoming to easy for them.?Also,when someone has 30k attack or 18k armor from relic bonuses(seen it) how is that not an unfair advantage?Well boys and girls,it is.Who are the ones saying relics were fine the way they were?The ones who had those relics.You could visibly see they were over empowered.When someone is 200 levels lower than you and has better stats than you do with no buffs is,umm over empowered!!
Well,thats over now.
Welcome back to Fallensword..

Excellent job HCS!!
I hope you stick to your guns on this one.
Anything is better than the way it was before.

#316 fs_mashene

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 07:15

typical.

the "big boys" vs "everyone else" vs "me, i'm poor and small, gimmie, gimmie, gimmie" vs "we dont have it, so why should anyone else".

as happens all the time, and why i never post here (yep, its a quiet afternoon today) there are several voices that make a lot of noise, and have no idea.

whilst i agree the relics do give an unfair advantage at (former) max empowerment, it is also the case this this advantage does come at a cost. sulking about pvp being too hard with relics is a phallacy if thats what this whole change is brought about for, as we all know unbuffed/offline players are simple to take, no matter what level, if pvp is your thing. In addition, relics are pretty easy takes if you know what you're doing and has some sort of active guild that participates.

anyway i have plenty to say, but have run out of passion and cant see it making any difference to the continual out of touch reactive changes made constantly in this game. if this is a band-aid fix for reducing the amount of players at content, by removing 1-hitting (look out new content), then yet again, well done on a monumental. expect more inactives at the upper end of levels and donations....

its good to see the "online players" has been fixed to see the true number of players

#317 fs_mattf

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 07:24

there are 138 people that opt-in for this round from levels 50-1199 your saying you took away the relic bonuses so it would be easier for them? if you dont want relic bounuses to make to much of an impact in pvp or gvg then like in the arena disregard the bonuses when attacking or defending. people who pvp attack what 11 or 12 time a round, if that, people who hunt could attack thousands of times so yeah were a little upset when we lose that 10 or 20 percent bonus that we had. if you dont want a guild to hold on to a relic for months at a time then how about you reduce defending stats per day rather then per relic. Or if you dont want them to have more then 1 relic why even have that option. if this update stands potion prices are going to be insanely high thus pissing everyone off big or small guild. so unless your just starting out hunting is going to suck for everyone.

#318 ozziepete

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 07:26

I preferred the relic system as it was. I have only come across complaints about relics being "over powered" coming from persons involved in PVP Ladder and PVP. With that as a possible unfairness then a change in relic system being inflicted on all seems not to address the perceived problem. PVP ladder is about who is the best. Make relic bonus not count for the ladder and the problem is solved for that. Make relic bonus not count for PVP and the problem is solved for that. Now the next gripe about relic unfairness that has been mentioned is that small guilds don't stand a chance of holding relics like the "BIG guilds do. I am sorry that may be true. The Big guilds spend an incredible amount of time, gold, stam and effort to get and hold any relic. A smaller guild in all likely-hood will not have the same abilities or means and so will not earn the same rewards. I cannot see a problem here that justifies major changes to the relic system that will in any way change this fact. Small guilds are not big guilds, that is how it is. The rewards for any guilds relic efforts have been free up to this point in time and are I feel fully justified. HCS wanting to charge some amount of gold to hold seems to be accepted by nearly all responses I have read in this forum topic. Seems we can all live with some costs. I am sure a fair cost can be worked out quickly. Now to what the rewards should be. If HCS is to tweak and insist on a change then the rapid change from 20% to 6% or 10% to 3% is savage. A change of half is still quite severe. Many still hunting have relied (possibly too much) on relic bonuses. This radical change will certainly cause a lot of hunters and guild masters some problems. Potions are already more expensive (EW1500 up 2 fsp in a day). I think the reduction in bonuses will mean that no hunter will have the option to experiment with gear, pots and buffs. To hunt you will need the best, most expensive gear, buffs and pots going just to get fair reward for stam spent. Many hunters like to plan and try different gear or combos to be efficient, experiment and have fun. The relic bonuses allowed that behaviour. This big change will stifle a lot of that. If there has to be a reduction, please make it so 10% bonus is possible. 1 relic with 10% would I think allow more relics to be shared across the whole of FS. 2 relics at 5% each will probably not increase the availability of relics within FS.

#319 tedlogan

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 07:29

I would've thought that you cows would learn one thing from the FI tweak fiasco: Not to rush changes that drastically affect gameplay.
Now, to noone's surprise, you did it again. You just cut off a huge chunk of stat points but left everything else as it is. You created another major balancing shift and ignored the results of your own poll along the way.
It's not even that I'd mind having a more difficult game, and adding a gold upkeep to relics is also a good idea. But it sucks to see you guys slap on yet another rushed change - right out of the blue - that affects loads of people negatively because you've been catering to the opinions of a few again.


And why is it "unfair" to be in a big guild with big bonuses? If you've got a problem with better-equipped competition, go join a big guild yourself. Or try to build one yourself, how about that? Trying to step up to their level? But no, all it takes is enough whining so you can drag the others down to your level.
What's next? Exclude top-class equipment from PvP cause you can't afford it? Or should we just give the same bonuses that big guilds enjoy to every other guild too, because it's sooo vewwy, vewwy unfair?


Oh well. I don't really know why I bother any more.

#320 fs_mattf

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 07:32

i havent heard even one good reason why this update was needed


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