Official Suggestion : PvP Improvements (rev. 2)
#481
Posted 12 September 2011 - 02:14
#482
Posted 12 September 2011 - 03:58
As it stands, though, the difference between rating gained by a lvl 500 clearing a lvl 100 bounty vs. a lvl 500 bounty is not very great.... 12 vs. 20? That doesn't seem like a difference proportional to the level of challenge involved. It seems like ~zero challenge should yield ~zero reward... which brings me to agree with leos3000's idea:
Limit rating gain to +/- 2 PvP bands from your own
and most of the other ones in red in his post on page 17.
The value of the reward only needs to be the same for all people in 1 bracket, then compare that value to direct PvP. Clearing a level 100 would give you 12 rating points. 100 stamming a person in the top 10 of your ladder would give you 100 rating points. Both are PvPing and the reward for clearing that bounty is 1/10th of the direct hit. That seemed fair to me (shrug)
Players complained bounties arent being cleared, or there's no point in posting since no one will stomp or clear. A small incentive/ rating reward for clearing bounties isn't a bad idea. And as mentioned. Score is NON transferable. It's a cumulative score you gain based on the difference in rating and levels and how Active you are. It's how pvp rating should be.
All right, so maybe the reward for clearing an on-level bounty should be increased? I see the point that rating should be applied to all forms of PvP, but 12 vs. 20 doesn't seem proportional to the difference in challenge involved..... Clearing a bounty on an on-level person would reward 1/5th the rating of a 100-stam attack on that player if they're in the top 10, while winning 10 attacks isn't 1/5th the challenge of winning 1?...
I don't know, the numbers seem weird to me, but you all know your stuff better than I do.
#483
Posted 12 September 2011 - 04:01
#484
Posted 12 September 2011 - 05:19
Ok, another IDEA. I have NEVER heard anyone suggest this in the past, so, forgive me if it's floating around somewhere and I am just ignorant (very possible):
In talking with Livingsin (whom I have awesome BB battles with a lot) we both kinda had an acknowledgement that 2 online players fighting on the BB - hunter and hunted - is by FAR the most entertaining and perhaps fair test of PvP. Why is this? 1) both players are online (this is important) 2) both are ready to PvP (they got buffed up, they are anticipating playing offense/defense) 3) the time-frame is short enough where buffs expiring or people needing to go have a date/cook dinner/sleep are non-issues.
WHAT IF we created a tournament style system where people opt-in to PvP. If there are 8 competitors, there is a bracketed tournament - just like arena - but the players have 1 bounty-style stand-off of 10 hits on offense and 1 on defense to determine a winner?? The winner is whoever get's the most wins out of the 20 hits of the combined offense/defense. If it is a tie, the winner is whomever did the most damage (or some arbitrary measurement). If you win against one opponent, you move to the next round in the tourney and so-forth. The tournament has a designated time, and if you are a no-show for your turn up, you forfeit it to your opponent.
This system would allow for shorter, more equal, and more definitive ways to measure PvP prowess.
As you say yourself, this has been suggested b4, and was one of the few good suggestions as to how the pvp arena should have been done.. so.. an old idea. Sadly, what we call the arena today, is what the cows were able to make outta the suggestion.
I still like the idea though
This would however not fix the current pvp issues (be it ladder or BB related)... so.. back on topic pls
I have a simple comment for the few, non-pvpers who think this is their place to spew vile against what they do not understand, and clearly despise.
Have you ever bothered to read any bios on the lower lvl players? If so, how come you think removing xp loss would make 'em keep playing?
If you haven't bothered, lemme summarize for ya; "If you attack, send back gold or bounty for you!" ... not as bad English as most, but I tried... anyways.. where do you see any concern over xp loss?
I am not saying they are the only players in the game, and I do understand why you are worried about your specific position in the game aka what happens around you alone (I have worked with enough children to know how and why those sorta behavior patterns occur) but I am saying, that the current low lvls are the future high lvls, and should not be run outta the game.
No one can deny that we changed this game and influenced it in such a way that NO ONE could compete with us.. so much so that they changed the rules. ~Abhorrence, chosen founder of Cerulean Sins
#485
Posted 12 September 2011 - 08:05
All right, so maybe the reward for clearing an on-level bounty should be increased? I see the point that rating should be applied to all forms of PvP, but 12 vs. 20 doesn't seem proportional to the difference in challenge involved..... Clearing a bounty on an on-level person would reward 1/5th the rating of a 100-stam attack on that player if they're in the top 10, while winning 10 attacks isn't 1/5th the challenge of winning 1?...
I don't know, the numbers seem weird to me, but you all know your stuff better than I do.
1) The difference is 2 vs 10 the additional points will depend on the amount of stam used.
Most bounty clears are virtually risk free. Most pvp guilds have rules about not bounting the bounty hunter. Clearing bounties and gaining rating is a bonus and a motivation to get bounties cleared quickly. Of course the reward will be minimal for minimal risk. This also ensures that no one gains a huge pvp rating by simply clearing bounties. To get a large rating you will need to be active in off BB hits as well.
#486
Posted 12 September 2011 - 10:04
#487
fs_commiedevo
Posted 12 September 2011 - 10:30
All right, so maybe the reward for clearing an on-level bounty should be increased? I see the point that rating should be applied to all forms of PvP, but 12 vs. 20 doesn't seem proportional to the difference in challenge involved..... Clearing a bounty on an on-level person would reward 1/5th the rating of a 100-stam attack on that player if they're in the top 10, while winning 10 attacks isn't 1/5th the challenge of winning 1?...
I don't know, the numbers seem weird to me, but you all know your stuff better than I do.
1) The difference is 2 vs 10 the additional points will depend on the amount of stam used.
Most bounty clears are virtually risk free. Most pvp guilds have rules about not bounting the bounty hunter. Clearing bounties and gaining rating is a bonus and a motivation to get bounties cleared quickly. Of course the reward will be minimal for minimal risk. This also ensures that no one gains a huge pvp rating by simply clearing bounties. To get a large rating you will need to be active in off BB hits as well.
There is already a ladder for BHers. The BB should have nothing to do with PvP ladder. Mixing the two always leads to farming. We tried this, it failed miserably - let's move on!
#488
Posted 12 September 2011 - 10:38
#489
fs_commiedevo
Posted 12 September 2011 - 10:39
Apparently, everyone LIKES IT! I haven't seen an outright bash on the basic concept yet. The Cows are asking for our input. Rather than throw in the towel on what, to me, is the only REALLY FUN seeming concept on here, why not try again - but louder?
PLEASE COWS! You have a very unique situation where people are agreeing that something seems progressive and fun. Apparently, you dismissed it in the past, but you have a chance to REALLY LISTEN to your devoted players. We would all appreciate it if you opened a "PvP Improvements (rev. 3)" thread that had this tournament concept as an option.
Anyhow, I am idealistic enough to keep trying, despite the trend of not listening. I hope some will join me.
#490
Posted 12 September 2011 - 10:53
i think i have to agree,, the Bounty Board should have no affect on the proper pvp reward
Snowy, it's a pvp ladder. Clearing bounties IS part of pvp. I'm like broken record here saying this. NO transferable rating. An incentive to CLEARING bounties is a GOOD thing. 100 stamming of bounties is GOOD. Remember brackets are still 50 levels. Theres minimal rating gained for clearing a bounty, and you dont LOSE rating ever.It's about Activity.
#491
Posted 12 September 2011 - 11:01
#492
Posted 12 September 2011 - 11:32
Bounty Hunting isnt pvp,, most times its just some high level player clearing a low level player, the new pvp suggestion should increase Bounty Board activity as it is, All i see happening is that high level clearers will jump on low level bounties to get easier points and high level bounties will still be left for ages
It's an aspect of pvp. It's pvp activity. You gold hit someone, your bountied because of that. Or you clear a bounty, and get counter bountied. A leaderboard/ladder that shows ALL aspects of pvp is what is wanted.Some players bounty hunt more then they hit off the board, some hit off the board more then they bounty hunt.. and some balance both. EVERYONE should show on a leaderboard/ladder. If they are active then they should be on it.
#493
Posted 12 September 2011 - 11:44
+1 I've been saying this since very early in the ladder fix campaign. Bounty hunting is a subset of pvp like the arena. Both have their own top lists. The pvp ladder should be for off board pvp only.i think i have to agree,, the Bounty Board should have no affect on the proper pvp reward
#494
Posted 12 September 2011 - 12:16
If you want PvP to survive in this game, forcing people to join a PvP guild in order to have any chance at all in it isn't a good choice.
If you want to be a pvper a leveling guild may not be a good choice.
As near as I can tell from what people tell me and from watching the Bounty Board, PvP is already a marginal activity outside the Ladder. What is not a practical choice for the Cows ("Option 0") is making it more attractive to the people already doing PvP, at the cost of alienating the vast majority who don't. So the Cows have two alternatives:
1) Change PvP so that more people are willing to do it, by making it more competive and less hateful, or
2) Let it wither away and die, when the few dozen hard-core Pvpers realize their forum whining will not get them the system they want, and go somewhere else.
I'm advocating option 1. You seem to be advocating Option 0. I don't believe you'll get it. Time will tell.
i highly disagree with the argument that you have to be in a "pvp guild" to be good at pvp......before the opt in, i played the ladder, 4 times, i placed 1st........3 of those times. i wasnt in a pvp guild, i was in a leveling guild. i was the ONLY pvp player in the guild, i BOUGHT all my buffs, and checked in every hour or 2 to see if i needed to be rebuffed or needed to stomp on someones head. if you want to win the ladder you dont need to be in a pvp guild, you have to be dedicated. now with that said, i truly think that hor's idea with a few of the tweaks that have been mentioned is the best course of action to take. it doesnt "alienate" anyone, it simply rewards those that pvp on a daily basis, actively, because its fun, not to get those little tokens. the "pvp" players that play the ladder, i have never been hit by them, i have never been cleared off the board by them, hell do they even hit each other on the ladder over the 350-399 bracket?(i know they do im just saying) the only real problem i can see with the proposed system is it is going to leave levelers open to being hit at the start of every ladder, but i still like my idea of being "opted in" once you swing on someone the very first time no matter what the reasoning behind it is.
#495
Posted 12 September 2011 - 12:19
+1 I've been saying this since very early in the ladder fix campaign. Bounty hunting is a subset of pvp like the arena. Both have their own top lists. The pvp ladder should be for off board pvp only.i think i have to agree,, the Bounty Board should have no affect on the proper pvp reward
HCS should really consider removing PvP Prestige gain from each bounty win/clear...
#496
Posted 12 September 2011 - 12:23
What's wrong with "Simple" PvP? why are you making PvP so complex?
If you win you gain rating, if you loss you loss rating.... and a hit should be a hit..
In real life, if your wanting to pick a fight, are you going to 10 stam or 100 stam that person?
lol, just hit him and be done with it..
#497
fs_dsjupiter
Posted 12 September 2011 - 13:52
Bounty Hunting isnt pvp,, most times its just some high level player clearing a low level player, the new pvp suggestion should increase Bounty Board activity as it is, All i see happening is that high level clearers will jump on low level bounties to get easier points and high level bounties will still be left for ages
Not necessarily, I love clearing high level bounties. They are a harder target, clearing someone below me is boring its click click click done. But with the higher targets I have to do math figure out the correct set up and how to counter the buffs that the higher level has. It is MUCH funner to me. Plus I love seeing the reaction of some higher levels when I get around their set up :wink:
#498
fs_dsjupiter
Posted 12 September 2011 - 13:54
I voted NO and the reason is because this is too complicated to understand..
What's wrong with "Simple" PvP? why are you making PvP so complex?
If you win you gain rating, if you loss you loss rating.... and a hit should be a hit..
In real life, if your wanting to pick a fight, are you going to 10 stam or 100 stam that person?
lol, just hit him and be done with it..
Want it broken down in easier terms for you?
The cows have a modified version of PvP Prestige.
It isn't giving the same amounts you would receive as actual prestige, but try and think of it along those lines. Then they also added the ability to earn it from defending, one thing lots of true PvPers take pride in.
#499
Posted 12 September 2011 - 13:55
#500
Posted 12 September 2011 - 14:14
+1 I've been saying this since very early in the ladder fix campaign. Bounty hunting is a subset of pvp like the arena. Both have their own top lists. The pvp ladder should be for off board pvp only.i think i have to agree,, the Bounty Board should have no affect on the proper pvp reward
HCS should really consider removing PvP Prestige gain from each bounty win/clear...
I don't think a good idea, many players that got medal BM crystal clean bounties to get prestige
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