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Official Suggestion : PvP Improvements (rev. 2)


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Poll: Do you like this idea? (182 member(s) have cast votes)

Do you like this idea?

  1. Voted Yes (70 votes [38.46%])

    Percentage of vote: 38.46%

  2. Voted No (112 votes [61.54%])

    Percentage of vote: 61.54%

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#521 Hoofmaster

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Posted 12 September 2011 - 19:45

The current pvp ladder system is a false representation of who pvps. It shows who plays the Ladder . Nothing more.


Anything with set rules and guidelines with a result much more than the satisfaction of having a high rating is a false representation of PvP. Back when I was a 250 with 1900 rating with nothing to gain from it, that was real PvP. This is all behind us tho. We can not try to get a system that will not be a farming system anything like that. The way it is now, which is more of ladder and not PvP, I agree, is the best it will get. Just needs more incentive to get people back in it.



incentive is what killed the ladders in the first place. Had they been bound I bet there would have been alot more participation ;) ie: If someone wanted some new shiny gear they should pvp to get it. Thats how it should be imo.


We can look at making future PvP rewards bound :)

#522 Maehdros

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Posted 12 September 2011 - 19:48

Ok butchering Rads post to make some changes:


PvP Rating

To start with you will no longer default to 1000 PvP rating on a ladder reset. You will default to 0.
Additionally, there will be NO rating transfer.

Keep the current PvP ladders and bands.
However they will only be used to determine your weekly ladder placement / ranking.
No opt in or out

Slight changes after talking to Maeh (hug)
Over 48 hours inactive gives no rating transfer
0 rating players can only be hit 1 time every ladder for rating gain.

This next section will detail how to gain PvP rating. (remember you can no longer loose rating)

Regular Attacks (out-with bounty board and guild conflicts)
-----------------


Note: You can only attack players within +- 10 levels of your Virtual Level.
Exception! All Top 10 players in each ladder can hit their counterparts in that ladder irregardless of level and take exp, gold and rating.

Initiating Attacks
Attacking a player will give rating based on these formulas:


10 stamina attack = you gain 5 PvP Rating + 5 * Their PvP divided by Your Pvp
(No 10 stam hit can give more then 10 rating)

(anyone in the top 10 of the pvp ladder gets the full 10 for attacking another top 10 ladder player)

100 stamina attack = you gain 50 PvP Rating + 50 rating * their PvP divided by Your PvP
(No 100 stam hit can give more then 100 rating)

(anyone in the top 10 of the pvp ladder gets the full 100 for attacking another top 10 ladder player)

Outcome of a 100 stam hit

a) Loosing = No attacker gain, Defender gains nothing, attacker loses exp

B) Winning against someone with no rating = 50 PvP
c) Winning against another top 10 ladder player means 100 PvP
d) Winning against someone with rating but off the top 10 means a reduced reward between 50-100 PvP

There is no advantage/disadvantage for hitting higher or lower level players in the +-10 range.


(removed online player requirement)



Bounty Attacks
-----------------


Firstly, we have been thinking about this for a while and we are proposing the removal of "Bounty Tickets" from the game, we will replace this with a gold cost to accept a bounty.

Only the bounty winner gains rating.

There is a 10 pvp rating bonus when you complete the bounty based on your winning %

Once the bounty is over the total rating is modified based on Targets Level/Clearers level.
*clearing a higher level gives the modifier of 1


Rating gain is based on stam used:
10 stam bounty kill = 1 PvP rating
100 stam kill = 10 PvP rating

Each bounty will take into account: Stam used, Level difference, and Win % and it will look like this:

Outcome

A level 500 clears a level 100 from the BB with 10 stam hits and never loses
10* 10 stam(1 pvp rating) = 10 PvP rating * (modified by level) 100/500
A level 500 would gain 2 PvP rating for clearing a level 100 + the bonus of 10 rating * 100% winning.

12 Rating for this clear.


A level 500 clears a level 500 with 10 stams and never loses:
10* 10 stam(1 pvp rating)= 10 PvP rating * 500/500= 10 rating + 10 rating bonus for the clear
20 Rating for this clear.



Note: The Bounty Board Rating gain is slightly less as Rating can be gained ALOT quicker has no level restrictions.




Quoted so i dont have to go back 20 pages to see it o.o

#523 fs_commiedevo

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Posted 12 September 2011 - 19:52

Ok butchering Rads post to make some changes:


PvP Rating

To start with you will no longer default to 1000 PvP rating on a ladder reset. You will default to 0.
Additionally, there will be NO rating transfer.

Keep the current PvP ladders and bands.
However they will only be used to determine your weekly ladder placement / ranking.
No opt in or out

Slight changes after talking to Maeh (hug)
Over 48 hours inactive gives no rating transfer
0 rating players can only be hit 1 time every ladder for rating gain.

This next section will detail how to gain PvP rating. (remember you can no longer loose rating)

Regular Attacks (out-with bounty board and guild conflicts)
-----------------


Note: You can only attack players within +- 10 levels of your Virtual Level.
Exception! All Top 10 players in each ladder can hit their counterparts in that ladder irregardless of level and take exp, gold and rating.

Initiating Attacks
Attacking a player will give rating based on these formulas:


10 stamina attack = you gain 5 PvP Rating + 5 * Their PvP divided by Your Pvp
(No 10 stam hit can give more then 10 rating)

(anyone in the top 10 of the pvp ladder gets the full 10 for attacking another top 10 ladder player)

100 stamina attack = you gain 50 PvP Rating + 50 rating * their PvP divided by Your PvP
(No 100 stam hit can give more then 100 rating)

(anyone in the top 10 of the pvp ladder gets the full 100 for attacking another top 10 ladder player)

Outcome of a 100 stam hit

a) Loosing = No attacker gain, Defender gains nothing, attacker loses exp

B) Winning against someone with no rating = 50 PvP
c) Winning against another top 10 ladder player means 100 PvP
d) Winning against someone with rating but off the top 10 means a reduced reward between 50-100 PvP

There is no advantage/disadvantage for hitting higher or lower level players in the +-10 range.


(removed online player requirement)



Bounty Attacks
-----------------


Firstly, we have been thinking about this for a while and we are proposing the removal of "Bounty Tickets" from the game, we will replace this with a gold cost to accept a bounty.

Only the bounty winner gains rating.

There is a 10 pvp rating bonus when you complete the bounty based on your winning %

Once the bounty is over the total rating is modified based on Targets Level/Clearers level.
*clearing a higher level gives the modifier of 1


Rating gain is based on stam used:
10 stam bounty kill = 1 PvP rating
100 stam kill = 10 PvP rating

Each bounty will take into account: Stam used, Level difference, and Win % and it will look like this:

Outcome

A level 500 clears a level 100 from the BB with 10 stam hits and never loses
10* 10 stam(1 pvp rating) = 10 PvP rating * (modified by level) 100/500
A level 500 would gain 2 PvP rating for clearing a level 100 + the bonus of 10 rating * 100% winning.

12 Rating for this clear.


A level 500 clears a level 500 with 10 stams and never loses:
10* 10 stam(1 pvp rating)= 10 PvP rating * 500/500= 10 rating + 10 rating bonus for the clear
20 Rating for this clear.



Note: The Bounty Board Rating gain is slightly less as Rating can be gained ALOT quicker has no level restrictions.




Quoted so i dont have to go back 20 pages to see it o.o


I vote no on rating transfer from the BB outside of one's range. It just promotes farming and controversy.

#524 Maehdros

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Posted 12 September 2011 - 19:54

How about keeping the range smaller at lower levels (e.g. +/-10 for under level 200) and increasing it to +/-25 for level 200+?

Have you forgotten how many players left the game when you made it +/-50 levels?



PvP range should never extend above +/- 10 levels for ANYONE, unless as has been suggested..players with rating hitting others in their top ten in the band.

#525 LLAP

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Posted 12 September 2011 - 19:55

I vote no on rating transfer from the BB outside of one's range. It just promotes farming and controversy.


Would that not only make people making deals to bounty so and so if they bounty so and so, so that they can clear them gaining rating from each of them... In that band atleast, making it gainable from each player/band regardless of level there would be enough bounties for all.. Enough pages to crash she game hopefully :mrgreen:


#526 LLAP

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Posted 12 September 2011 - 19:58

How about keeping the range smaller at lower levels (e.g. +/-10 for under level 200) and increasing it to +/-25 for level 200+?

Have you forgotten how many players left the game when you made it +/-50 levels?Wasnt it only 25 +/- ? eg. 100-149 I would have to be level 125 to do that.. Dependant on the level you were you could hit 50 levels worth of players, but not 50+/-
About 25% of the active players my wife and I knew at the time quit, mainly people above level 200.
And some of those who remained only did so because other players depended on them.
Merchants selling potions were especially hard hit by the expanded ranges -- they were being hit hard for gold that came in from sales while they were offline.
PvP Protection is there for a reason lol. But they could sell them low enough to get bought up rapidly ;)



#527 fs_commiedevo

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Posted 12 September 2011 - 19:58


I vote no on rating transfer from the BB outside of one's range. It just promotes farming and controversy.


Would that not only make people making deals to bounty so and so if they bounty so and so, so that they can clear them gaining rating from each of them... In that band atleast, making it gainable from each player/band regardless of level there would be enough bounties for all.. Enough pages to crash she game hopefully :mrgreen:


As Bleltch, I, and quite a few other BHers have said before, there is already a ladder for BHers. Take rating off the ladder entirely.

#528 Maehdros

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Posted 12 September 2011 - 20:00

I vote no on rating transfer from the BB outside of one's range. It just promotes farming and controversy.



To start with you will no longer default to 1000 PvP rating on a ladder reset. You will default to 0.
Additionally, there will be NO rating transfer.

It promotes the clearing of bounties. Why is that a bad idea? LOL



Bounty hunting IS part of pvp. You go on the board as a direct result of pvp. Your clearing in the same manner.. by being attacked.

#529 fs_commiedevo

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Posted 12 September 2011 - 20:02


I vote no on rating transfer from the BB outside of one's range. It just promotes farming and controversy.



To start with you will no longer default to 1000 PvP rating on a ladder reset. You will default to 0.
Additionally, there will be NO rating transfer.

It promotes the clearing of bounties. Why is that a bad idea? LOL



Bounty hunting IS part of pvp. You go on the board as a direct result of pvp. Your clearing in the same manner.. be being attacked.


Activity is not dominance nor skill. Clearing someone 500 levels below you is ridiculous and can barely be called BHing, let alone PvP dominance.

#530 Maehdros

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Posted 12 September 2011 - 20:04


I vote no on rating transfer from the BB outside of one's range. It just promotes farming and controversy.



To start with you will no longer default to 1000 PvP rating on a ladder reset. You will default to 0.
Additionally, there will be NO rating transfer.

It promotes the clearing of bounties. Why is that a bad idea? LOL



Bounty hunting IS part of pvp. You go on the board as a direct result of pvp. Your clearing in the same manner.. be being attacked.


Activity is not dominance nor skill. Clearing someone 500 levels below you is ridiculous and can barely be called BHing, let alone PvP dominance.




Then change the medal.You;ve seen my thread.A ladder should show the most active in their band. Hitting one player hourly for rating inst dominant in my opinion. Hors example was to show that there is a lower gain clearing someone lower then you. We want more bounties cleared, many cry that bounties sit there all day. This addresses that issue. I get posted and sit there all day long most times. Reward isnt worth even touching the bounty.Add some rating to it? More might try. A player shouldnt have to post a high reward to get me cleared.Why the issue with promoting the clearing of bounties?

#531 LLAP

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Posted 12 September 2011 - 20:05


I vote no on rating transfer from the BB outside of one's range. It just promotes farming and controversy.


Would that not only make people making deals to bounty so and so if they bounty so and so, so that they can clear them gaining rating from each of them... In that band atleast, making it gainable from each player/band regardless of level there would be enough bounties for all.. Enough pages to crash she game hopefully :mrgreen:


As Bleltch, I, and quite a few other BHers have said before, there is already a ladder for BHers. Take rating off the ladder entirely.


Top 250 Bounty Hunters isnt a Ladder..
Ladders, you go up and down on them and postions change regulary..
1310 bounties need to be cleared for #2 to become #1, and thats only before #1 clears some more...


#532 fs_commiedevo

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Posted 12 September 2011 - 20:06

Then change the medal.You;ve seen my thread.A ladder should show the most active in their band. Hitting one player hourly for rating inst dominant in my opinion. Hors example was to show that there is a lower gain clearing someone lower then you.


There should be NO rating clearing someone lower than you, that's for dang sure! Lessening the problem is almost as good as totally ELIMINATING it. Take rating off the BB, thanks :)

#533 fs_commiedevo

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Posted 12 September 2011 - 20:17

I do love the idea of using gold instead of bounty tickets 8) that i give a big +1 too


It should help make the bounty board more active and also create a new gold sink :)


HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE!

You are rewarding those bountied (I'm sure every leveler who posts a bounty will be THRILLED that you are doing so) by making hunters more vulnerable to lose the TONS of gold they will have to carry if they take a lot of tickets or want to be prepared for the next that pops up.

BHers ALREADY lose too much of the cheap rewards they get to those being hunted through MTs. They are the most underpaid and they already risk counter-bounty.

WHY NOT JUST MAKE TICKETS COST GOLD??? If you want a gold-sink, there it is! Buy your tickets in gold!

If this idea is implemented, I see folks countering hunters who hold the most gold for tickets, just to make them a pinata for others. Higher level hunters will, of course, be MOST effected (this probably won't be tons of skin off my back) but it punishes hunters and rewards the hunted (those supposedly deserving punishment). This is what one calls a BACKWARD idea!

#534 LLAP

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Posted 12 September 2011 - 20:20

[We can look at making future PvP rewards bound :)

The danger there is either that

1) you create a positive-feedback loop that makes the dominent players even more dominant, thus discouraging new players from joining the activity, or
2) the reward becomes essentially valueless to a player after it is won once or twice, so they lose interest in it.
Most real-world rewards have value because they are considered valuable to people other than the recipient, that's true both for lottery winnings and symbolic awards like a Knighthood.


Someone suggested Bound Crystaline, which would make having more than one or another go at the ladder, or whatever it will be once that set/items wear down.. I think that could be a good addition to the ideas out there.
Also, even bound items have there uses after initialy veing used for there purpose. if they are good enough they will be used offline, GvG, Bh'ing, one-off retal 100stam. maybe even a leveler will give it a whack for some good offline items.


#535 Maehdros

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Posted 12 September 2011 - 20:21

WHY NOT JUST MAKE TICKETS COST GOLD??? If you want a gold-sink, there it is! Buy your tickets in gold!




that works fine ;)

#536 fs_commiedevo

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Posted 12 September 2011 - 20:23

[We can look at making future PvP rewards bound :)

The danger there is either that

1) you create a positive-feedback loop that makes the dominent players even more dominant, thus discouraging new players from joining the activity, or
2) the reward becomes essentially valueless to a player after it is won once or twice, so they lose interest in it.
Most real-world rewards have value because they are considered valuable to people other than the recipient, that's true both for lottery winnings and symbolic awards like a Knighthood.


Someone suggested Bound Crystaline, which would make having more than one or another go at the ladder, or whatever it will be once that set/items wear down.. I think that could be a good addition to the ideas out there.
Also, even bound items have there uses after initialy veing used for there purpose. if they are good enough they will be used offline, GvG, Bh'ing, one-off retal 100stam. maybe even a leveler will give it a whack for some good offline items.


I like the idea of crystalline gear. Makes sense to keep rewards personally valuable to PvPers with a lot of tickets.

#537 fs_commiedevo

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Posted 12 September 2011 - 20:24



WHY NOT JUST MAKE TICKETS COST GOLD??? If you want a gold-sink, there it is! Buy your tickets in gold!




that works fine ;)


Yay. Let's do it :)

#538 LLAP

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Posted 12 September 2011 - 20:25



WHY NOT JUST MAKE TICKETS COST GOLD??? If you want a gold-sink, there it is! Buy your tickets in gold!




that works fine ;)


As would making the amount you accept come from your bank.. Don't think it is too much of a bad idea either.
If it was to cost gold for tickets, no doubt it would be roughtly the same amounts worth for a FSP's worth..


#539 Maehdros

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Posted 12 September 2011 - 20:27

I like the idea of crystalline gear. Makes sense to keep rewards personally valuable to PvPers with a lot of tickets.



Its a good idea IF HCS tweaks UB like they suggested to a max of 95% durability. Crystal NEEDS to break.

#540 LLAP

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Posted 12 September 2011 - 20:30



I like the idea of crystalline gear. Makes sense to keep rewards personally valuable to PvPers with a lot of tickets.



Its a good idea IF HCS tweaks UB like they suggested to a max of 95% durability. Crystal NEEDS to break.


I can't see people paying 10+ FSP or 1 or 2FSP +Distil. or 500 Lotalty points for PvP that often, though your right, it does need to be around 95% max.
Countless GvG's, bounties and PvP attacks I did with a crystaline helm and I was shocked to find out it hadnt lost a single dura on it with 175 each time.. Quite overpowering at that level alone, the % per point is what should be altered if you ask me.



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