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Official Suggestion : PvP Improvements (rev. 2)


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Poll: Do you like this idea? (182 member(s) have cast votes)

Do you like this idea?

  1. Voted Yes (70 votes [38.46%])

    Percentage of vote: 38.46%

  2. Voted No (112 votes [61.54%])

    Percentage of vote: 61.54%

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#101 Maehdros

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Posted 09 September 2011 - 20:15

Well i think the idea where a player had to online 15 -0-15 mins was only to stop people wait for buffs to end and then attack players in offline suits. So why not increase the range to 3 hours.



Thats why I suggested a "score" system.Cumulative score gained from pvp hits/ activity. Score ONLY gained ONCE per reset from a player off the BB. No limit on score gained via the BB ( 100 stams or bounty clears ONLY and a minimal..yes Minimal amount of score gained) No rating..stam modifier mumbo jumbo.

#102 paingwin

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Posted 09 September 2011 - 20:18

Hi all,

We've had a look over a couple of the suggestion threads and this will be the first of a number of suggestion / improvement threads Hoofmaster and I will be posting over the next few days. We've been wanting to improve the PvP Ladders and Bounty board for a while and with a little help from Maehdros (thanks!) suggestion thread this is what we've come up with so far.

PvP Rating

We plan to change the current system drastically. To start with you will no longer default to 1000 PvP rating on a ladder reset. You will default to 0. Additionally, there will be NO rating transfer. (Rating you gain while online cannot be stolen from you while you are offline.)
Finally, this is the best part of it IMO.
First off we plan to keep the current PvP ladders and bands. However they will only be used to determine your weekly ladder placement / ranking.

This next section will detail how to gain PvP rating. (remember you can no longer loose rating)

Regular Attacks (out-with bounty board and guild conflicts)
-----------------

Note: You can only attack players within 25 levels of your Virtual Level.
Please just keep the =/-10, they are fine.
Initiating Attacks
Attacking a player will give the stamina spent in PvP Rating.

i.e.
10 stamina attack = you gain 10 PvP Rating.
100 stamina attack = you gain 100 PvP Rating.
Outcome

a) Loosing = No attacker gain, Defender gains 2x the stamina spent in PvP Rating.

B) Winning vs. Lower Level will give 3x the stamina spent in PvP Rating.
????So your encouraging players to hit lower players????
i.e.
10 stamina attack = you gain 30 PvP Rating.
100 stamina attack = you gain 300 PvP Rating.
c) Winning vs. Equal or Higher Level will give 5x the stamina spent in PvP Rating.
Think that you should only gain a multiplier for someone HIGHER only.
i.e.
10 stamina attack = you gain 50 PvP Rating.
100 stamina attack = you gain 500 PvP Rating.
Note 1: This is in addition to the gain from the attack initiation gain.
Note 2: You will normally gain more rating if YOU initiate the attack. (i.e. rewards being active in PvP)
Note 3: You can only gain PvP Rating from an online (last activity within 15 mins) player and the normal rules of 1 hour per attack apply.
If you make the rating gain from each player once every reset this wont be needed......
So a basic example of above.

I don't like Hoofmaster very much, so I 100 stamina attack him, and naturally, I win.

I am level 291, Hoofmaster is 273.

I gain 100 PvP Rating for initiating the attack, and an additional 300 PvP rating for winning, totalling 400 PvP Rating.

This makes Hoofmaster mad, so he attacks me back with 50 stamina, but unfortunately he looses.

So Hoofmaster gains 50 PvP Rating for initiating the attack but nothing else because he didn't win. I however gain 100 PvP Rating as I successfully defended his attack.

Bounty Attacks
-----------------

Firstly, we have been thinking about this for a while and we are proposing the removal of "Bounty Tickets" from the game, we will replace this with a gold cost to accept a bounty.
Well what am i going to do with all these bounty tickets i have now? refund? And instead of getting rid of them just make them cost gold, gold sink woohoo!
Initiating Attacks
Similar to regular attacks, you will gain PvP Rating for initiating attacks on the bounty board but at a reduced multiplier.

Attacking a player will give one quarter of the stamina spent in PvP Rating. (rounded down)

Note: There is no once per hour restriction on Bounty Attacks and the target does NOT need to be online to gain your PvP Rating. (hence the reduced Rating gain)

i.e.
10 stamina attack = you gain 2 PvP Rating.
100 stamina attack = you gain 25 PvP Rating.
Outcome

a) Loosing = No attacker gain, Defender gains the stamina spent in PvP Rating.
Can you say point trading?
B) Winning vs. Lower Level will give one quarter of the stamina spent in PvP Rating.

i.e.
10 stamina attack = you gain 2 PvP Rating.
100 stamina attack = you gain 25 PvP Rating.
c) Winning vs. Equal or Higher Level will give the stamina spent in PvP Rating.

i.e.
10 stamina attack = you gain 10 PvP Rating.
100 stamina attack = you gain 100 PvP Rating.
Clearing

Clearing a Bounty on a player of lower level will give 50 PvP Rating.

Clearing a Bounty on a player of equal or higher level will give 500 PvP Rating.

So a basic example of above.

So now Hoofmaster is really mad!!! He decides to place me on the Bounty Board for a 10 x 100 stamina bounty. (He's really mad!) He offers some FSP for the bounty so BigGrim who is level 347 quickly accepts this bounty! (as he no longer needs to use his FSP to buy bounty tickets!)

BigGrim is over 50 levels higher than me HOWEVER the PvP Rating gain is NOT limited by level on the bounty board. So BigGrim starts 100 stamina attacking me! (cry!) For each 100 stamina attack he gains 25 PvP Rating. (So assuming he initiates all 10 attacks a total of 250 PvP Rating gain)

Somehow on one of the attacks I got lucky! (yay!) And I kill BigGrim, so technically he now needs to hit me 11 x 100 stamina to complete the bounty. So in total Grim gains 275 PvP Rating for initiating the attacks.

BigGrim wins 10 of the combats and I win 1. For the 10 combats BigGrim wins he gains 25 per win. Multiplied by the 10 wins totalling 250. For the combat I won, I gain 1 x the stamina cost so I gain 100 PvP Rating for successfully defending the Bounty Attack.

BigGrim also successfully cleared the bounty. So he gains 50 PvP Rating.

So in total for his 11 x 100 stamina attacks and successful clear BigGrim gains 575.

Conculsion

BigGrim gained significantly more rating, however I used 1/11th of the stamina. Both examples showed attacking a lower level player and more gain could be made by attacking more challenging opposition.

The exact numbers are broken down as follows

Radneto :
Attacking: 4 PvP Rating gain per stamina used. (400 Rating from 100 stamina)
Defending: 100 PvP Rating from 1 x 100 defendBig Grim :
Attacking: 0.52 PvP Rating gain per stamina used. (575 Rating from 1100 stamina)Hoofmaster :
Attacking: 1 PvP Rating gain per stamina used. (50 Rating from 50 stamina)
Note: The Bounty Board Rating gain is slightly less as Rating can be gained ALOT quicker has no level restrictions.

We've made this poll a Yes / No to get a good overview on this idea but as always we appreciate any feedback you give us and will take your suggestions on board.

We hope to be making many improvements to the game over the coming weeks, so keep an eye out for other suggestion threads!

Radneto

TL;DR. Change PvP Rating to reward activity and remove Rating transfer.



#103 watagashi

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Posted 09 September 2011 - 20:24

I dont like it,,, at all. Seriously I see NOTHING I like about it! Its really sad a small group can force you to change things just because they wont stop crying. Thats how bands got formed because people cried that pvpers should be seperated from regular top 20 players and now once again a bad fix for something thats been fixed till its broken,,,lets dissect a few parts

First off the online/offline part,,,WTF??? So someone comes on, hits then goes offline and is protected for the rest of the reset?? People dont play 24/7 here and for those who claim to be "real pvpers" who came up with this turd of an idea what part of sitting safe while offline is "real pvp"???
Lol, you just called Radneto, and other Cows turds :)


called the idea a turd cuz thats how i see it. It stinks, its worth @#$%, and I need to clean myself off after experiancing it. and its not Radnetos idea the basis of this is what the tiny minority has been calling for since the last time they cut off an arm to save the pinky.

But you want constructive suggestion?
Go with it BUT,,
get rid of the offline part, its just silly, to easy to manipulate and will discourage logging on!
Use bands for scoring purposes only, if someone doesnt want to pvp buy protection.
tweak some of the ratios especially for bb and keep the 25 level gap but allow hits in that range regardless of band
I dont like the bounty part, why can I get rating off a bounty on a player I cant hit in regular pvp?
And why cant I use group attacks on bountys :P

#104 fs_trackxyj

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Posted 09 September 2011 - 20:28

Hmm, i don't pvp in this game at all, but want to throw in my 2 cents.

I played a lot of online games in the past, but eventually left all except this one. The key reason is that I can play this game in my pace, and don't have to be online 24 hours a day to defend myself.

Again, I have never pvped in this game. However, I figured that pvp has to be more than screening for players with expired buff and customize your gears to beat a defenseless guy. A fair pvp would be
1) everyone participating has 1-5 armor sets predefined by himself, and the system will randomly pull out one when he is attacked
2) no buff for either side or random buff for either side
3) attack happens simultaneously

#105 Maehdros

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Posted 09 September 2011 - 20:30

Question to HCS, with all the feedback ( majority of it VERY positive) on the thread I made ( kudos to many friends and foes for helping tweak the idea)


Why make so many changes to what was ideally seen to be a great idea?

#106 LLAP

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Posted 09 September 2011 - 20:32

Hmm, i don't pvp in this game at all, but want to throw in my 2 cents.

I played a lot of online games in the past, but eventually left all except this one. The key reason is that I can play this game in my pace, and don't have to be online 24 hours a day to defend myself.

Again, I have never pvped in this game. However, I figured that pvp has to be more than screening for players with expired buff and customize your gears to beat a defenseless guy. A fair pvp would be
1) everyone participating has 1-5 armor sets predefined by himself, and the system will randomly pull out one when he is attacked
2) no buff for either side or random buff for either side
3) attack happens simultaneously


Thats not far off the PvP Arena, in my eyes...
People like yourself will surely have differant set up for each level range..
there is move and non move tournys
and they do happen simultaneously..


#107 etrigan778

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Posted 09 September 2011 - 20:34

I dont like it,,, at all. Seriously I see NOTHING I like about it! Its really sad a small group can force you to change things just because they wont stop crying. Thats how bands got formed because people cried that pvpers should be seperated from regular top 20 players and now once again a bad fix for something thats been fixed till its broken,,,lets dissect a few parts

First off the online/offline part,,,WTF??? So someone comes on, hits then goes offline and is protected for the rest of the reset?? People dont play 24/7 here and for those who claim to be "real pvpers" who came up with this turd of an idea what part of sitting safe while offline is "real pvp"???
Lol, you just called Radneto, and other Cows turds :)


called the idea a turd cuz thats how i see it. It stinks, its worth @#$%, and I need to clean myself off after experiancing it. and its not Radnetos idea the basis of this is what the tiny minority has been calling for since the last time they cut off an arm to save the pinky.

But you want constructive suggestion?
Go with it BUT,,
get rid of the offline part, its just silly, to easy to manipulate and will discourage logging on!
Use bands for scoring purposes only, if someone doesnt want to pvp buy protection.
tweak some of the ratios especially for bb and keep the 25 level gap but allow hits in that range regardless of band
I dont like the bounty part, why can I get rating off a bounty on a player I cant hit in regular pvp?
And why cant I use group attacks on bountys :P


+1, i finally made my chumanas set for PvP, but after these horrible changes, i see no point

#108 abhorrence

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Posted 09 September 2011 - 20:37

How about making it easier to take 5 on the BB, stop the 10 stam cleans that give min loss to the bounty hunter and the person been put on the bb ?


It was easier. Levelers complained about exp lost in direct PvP so much that it got changed, and changed and changed. The entire time I was SHOUTING.. you are making it HARDER to punish me!! Don't decrease it!!!! It's better for the game if someone like me that PvPs ALL THE TIME loses a lot because I am getting hit all the time. Mean while most levelers only get hit occasionally.

Now the levers rant is "The Bounty Board isn't even a real punishment! (sniff)"

You made your bed... lay in it.

#109 grimnok

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Posted 09 September 2011 - 20:42


How about making it easier to take 5 on the BB, stop the 10 stam cleans that give min loss to the bounty hunter and the person been put on the bb ?


It was easier. Levelers complained about exp lost in direct PvP so much that it got changed, and changed and changed. The entire time I was SHOUTING.. you are making it HARDER to punish me!! Don't decrease it!!!! It's better for the game if someone like me that PvPs ALL THE TIME loses a lot because I am getting hit all the time. Mean while most levelers only get hit occasionally.

Now the levers rant is "The Bounty Board isn't even a real punishment! (sniff)"

You made your bed... lay in it.


It's not as if BB XP loss must be twice regular XP loss. It could be 3, 4, or 5 times regular XP loss. I'm not advocating those numbers. But it's not as if lower XP loss for hits off the BB absolutely requires lower XP loss for hits on the BB.

#110 fs_trackxyj

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Posted 09 September 2011 - 20:45

Hmm, i don't pvp in this game at all, but want to throw in my 2 cents.

I played a lot of online games in the past, but eventually left all except this one. The key reason is that I can play this game in my pace, and don't have to be online 24 hours a day to defend myself.

Again, I have never pvped in this game. However, I figured that pvp has to be more than screening for players with expired buff and customize your gears to beat a defenseless guy. A fair pvp would be
1) everyone participating has 1-5 armor sets predefined by himself, and the system will randomly pull out one when he is attacked
2) no buff for either side or random buff for either side
3) attack happens simultaneously


Thats not far off the PvP Arena, in my eyes...
People like yourself will surely have differant set up for each level range..
there is move and non move tournys
and they do happen simultaneously..


It seems to me the key question is: should online players (who initiate attack) have advantage over offline players when pvping (who are being attacked)?

#111 paingwin

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Posted 09 September 2011 - 20:47

Hmm, i don't pvp in this game at all, but want to throw in my 2 cents.

I played a lot of online games in the past, but eventually left all except this one. The key reason is that I can play this game in my pace, and don't have to be online 24 hours a day to defend myself.

Again, I have never pvped in this game. However, I figured that pvp has to be more than screening for players with expired buff and customize your gears to beat a defenseless guy. A fair pvp would be
1) everyone participating has 1-5 armor sets predefined by himself, and the system will randomly pull out one when he is attacked
2) no buff for either side or random buff for either side
3) attack happens simultaneously


Thats not far off the PvP Arena, in my eyes...
People like yourself will surely have differant set up for each level range..
there is move and non move tournys
and they do happen simultaneously..


It seems to me the key question is: should online players (who initiate attack) have advantage over offline players when pvping (who are being attacked)?

the only time most(95%) of players get hit while offline is cause they left their wallet on the front porch..........

#112 fs_penfold83

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Posted 09 September 2011 - 20:47

To the players calling for the pvp gained equipment to be bound, one question what happens when they have worked for and got the said bound equipment ? Do you think they will keep putting the effort in to gain equipment that they all ready have ?

Edit the reason why these type of rewards should not be.

#113 livingsin

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Posted 09 September 2011 - 20:49

in a perfect world/game then no advantages should not be given to online vs offline....BUT being as about 3/4 of my current competition is in a different country in a different time zone....how is one to play fairly....your idea while interesting sounds like arena....

#114 Maehdros

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Posted 09 September 2011 - 20:52

To the players calling for the pvp gained equipment to be bound, one question what happens when they have worked for and got the said bound equipment ? Do you think they will keep putting the effort in to gain equipment that they all ready have ?



Those who regularly pvp would continue to do so. Gold hits, delevels, prestige hits, bounty clears. etc. Those players will show on the ladder for the normal..everyday pvp they participate in.

#115 watagashi

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Posted 09 September 2011 - 20:52

To the players calling for the pvp gained equipment to be bound, one question what happens when they have worked for and got the said bound equipment ? Do you think they will keep putting the effort in to gain equipment that they all ready have ?


+1 they wont,,they wont have much reason to put any effort into the game anymore

#116 LLAP

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Posted 09 September 2011 - 20:52

Hmm, i don't pvp in this game at all, but want to throw in my 2 cents.

I played a lot of online games in the past, but eventually left all except this one. The key reason is that I can play this game in my pace, and don't have to be online 24 hours a day to defend myself.

Again, I have never pvped in this game. However, I figured that pvp has to be more than screening for players with expired buff and customize your gears to beat a defenseless guy. A fair pvp would be
1) everyone participating has 1-5 armor sets predefined by himself, and the system will randomly pull out one when he is attacked
2) no buff for either side or random buff for either side
3) attack happens simultaneously


Thats not far off the PvP Arena, in my eyes...
People like yourself will surely have differant set up for each level range..
there is move and non move tournys
and they do happen simultaneously..


It seems to me the key question is: should online players (who initiate attack) have advantage over offline players when pvping (who are being attacked)?


Yes or no, should it really matter?
Every attack, PvPer whatever (Should) goes offline sometime, giving some other online attacker the advantage over to them...


#117 abhorrence

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Posted 09 September 2011 - 20:52

To the players calling for the pvp gained equipment to be bound, one question what happens when they have worked for and got the said bound equipment ? Do you think they will keep putting the effort in to gain equipment that they all ready have ?


If HCS includes potions as well... as has been mentioned TIME AND TIME AND TIME again.. let's say a Thievery potion or a Master Thievery potions... that PvPers have been asking for for as long as I have played .. then they would continue to compete for it. Also making the gear crystalline... and stepping up to make the changes that will not allow crystalline to be fully protected by UB... then the gear will need replacing. Savy?

#118 Maehdros

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Posted 09 September 2011 - 20:53

To the players calling for the pvp gained equipment to be bound, one question what happens when they have worked for and got the said bound equipment ? Do you think they will keep putting the effort in to gain equipment that they all ready have ?


+1 they wont,,they wont have much reason to put any effort into the game anymore


I consider gold hitting, deleveling to support my guild, and bounty hunting fun. I'll still do it regardless of ladder rewards or not ;) and i know MANY others who would too.

#119 LLAP

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Posted 09 September 2011 - 20:54

To the players calling for the pvp gained equipment to be bound, one question what happens when they have worked for and got the said bound equipment ? Do you think they will keep putting the effort in to gain equipment that they all ready have ?

Edit the reason why these type of rewards should not be.


Potions, Potions! We want potions too, Bound..


#120 Wiivja

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Posted 09 September 2011 - 20:54

As long as there is still the opt out possibility Im happy with this:)


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