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Official Suggestion : PvP Improvements (rev. 4)


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Poll: Do you like this revision? (119 member(s) have cast votes)

Do you like this revision?

  1. Voted Yes (41 votes [34.45%])

    Percentage of vote: 34.45%

  2. Voted No (78 votes [65.55%])

    Percentage of vote: 65.55%

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#301 Kedyn

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 05:42

I never pvp'd until 400. I'd been hit a bunch before then, irritated me but shrugged it off. At 400 I was repeatedly hit.I got ticked, talked to a friend and realized its a game.I decided to dabble in bounty hunting due to it and try it a bit. I met gravely, and gold hit someone first time ever and i got smashed for it..we both did. It was FUN.

PvP lets players who otherwise would never meet in the lands of fs, interact with one another. it's not always sunshine and daisies. Sometimes you tick someone off and make a lifetime enemy, sometimes you make a friend..or maybe nothing happens.You might get stomped..you might not.Thats the thrill of it. Someone can take revenge on you for your "evil" deeds. I find it exciting.


You can defend friends and allies who have been wronged. Buffing one another, clearing one another..fighting along side one another, and losing levels for one another. I;ve been in guilds where some don't pvp much or at all. And i've seen them pick up their swords and decide to lose levels for their fellow guildies in the name of justice or to defend ones honor, which makes one proud. Why? because they cared. It's the most exciting aspect of the game and the most risky.


Maeh.. this is probably one of the most descriptive and accurate views on PVP I have seen in a LOOONG time, but it's exactly true. It gives people pride, not only in themselves, or their guild, but their allies as well when you take 5 from someone, or protect a friend. It can give you a rush when you find a target that might be carrying 1-2 chests of gold too many. It's an enjoyable experience when you need something to switch up the monotony of other areas of the game.

#302 paingwin

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 05:45

and this is how your typical gold theif responds with insults and i bet you hide behind your guild when your hit back from someone taking a stand against you. you just bring in your guild and your guilds allie and make the game completely unpleasant for them

actually no i can hold my own all by myself. if i hit someone for gold and get dropped 5 oh well. but for you to come on the forum and personally attack me with insults completely unwarranted against the rules of the forum.

#303 BaronArto

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 05:50

ok, im going to offer my 2 cents consider it or igonre it either way i really dont care.


the whole thing just confuses me with the opted in/out so on so forth ect., but what i perpose is why not implement a pvp validating button? and once you press it your stuck subjected to pvp. this way those who want to pvp can, and those who dont wont, and cant be hit or hit others unless they validate themselve through pressing this button, this way those with no intrest in pvp are at no risk, and those that do can.


and maybe keep pvp arnea aside and unrelated to the pvp button, that way those that dont want pvp can still experince that aspect of the game, and new comers can gauge if they'd want to be apart of the whole pvp sene without risk. (this part of the idea though, i dont care about i merely presenting answers for possible questions)


seems to me hoof your trying to please everyone, those who want to pvp and those who just want to be left alone....be left alone, wouldnt this solve the problem?


on an unrelated note i would love to see more medals added its part of what keeps some people playing like myself, and some more monsters added like dragons....come on who doesnt wanna kill dragons....dragon slaying come on?! you have a picture of a dragon on the login page yet none in game

#304 DragonLord

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 05:54


read maehdros's post. thats your answer accept it or not. you hunt mindless little creatures that dont fight back and gain gold and experience. then you have pvp players who take it. pvp players are a necessary evil to ensure that levelers do not just fly through content allowing every player in the game to be at EOC sitting around with nothing to do. pvp players are the balance in the system to ensure that there is always a need to gain experience through hunting. does that answer your question?


and this is how your typical gold theif responds with insults and i bet you hide behind your guild when your hit back from someone taking a stand against you. you just bring in your guild and your guilds allie and make the game completely unpleasant for them


Sorry Dark, you're in the wrong there - Paingwin and I share completely different opinions about the topic being discussed here (in case you think I'm siding with him 'cos our viewpoints are aligned) but there was no insult there ... we DO attack mindless little creatures after all :).

#305 Kedyn

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 05:54

Losing 50% less per hit but getting hit much more often won't make levelers happy.
And since the emphasis here seems to be an a massive increase in PvP "activity", that's the likely result.
And Hoof still refuses to explain why non-PvPers need to lose XP to PvP attacks.


Law,

Honestly, as I stated earlier, and it has been stated over again, there is never going to be a perfect solution to this problem, BUT both sides will need to come to an agreeable area. Losing 50% if you have 0 rating, is definitely much nicer than having to lose 10% (if you get 100 stammed, which there is nothing saying you will).

As for why non-PVPers lose XP, it's probably just something to accept. It's been that way since the beginning of the game, and it's part of the idea behind PVP. If you hit someone and they die, you lose gold, XP and durability(outside of UB200). If you hit someone, and you die, then you lose XP, gold and durability. If you hit a creature and lose, you lose the same things. Honestly, it's probably better for the game that HCS doesn't allow you to GAIN XP whenever you get hit, which would actually be the way that it should work if you think of hunting in general. Players can hunt other players just like levelers can hunt monsters for gold/XP.

As for losing XP, PVP'ers may claim they don't care, but honestly, if they continually lose 20%+ every time they are posted on the bounty board, then at some time they are going to have to decide to level up. Honestly, in my limited PVP experience, the only people that I have 100 stammed more than 1 time are those who either 1) carried too much gold or 2) sent me nasty messages. By no means am I going to claim to be a purely PVP player, but I do enjoy the PVP here and there.

There obviously will never be a perfect situation, but levelers have to give up some form of their "safe zone feeling". They have been catered to over and over again, time and time again. Once again, I see many levelers coming on here to complain about how it is going to affect them and their game, but I don't see many of them offering any suggestions. This thread is to make the game better as a whole (including the Bounty Board, PVP Ladder and any other area affected), not just what's good for me. It's sad to see people allow their emotions flood them rather than use common sense and think of the entire update as a whole.

#306 DragonLord

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 06:00

we DO attack mindless little creatures after all :).

. . . but that's OK, because they are EVIL, have no souls, don't feel pain, and never donate.


n some of the pesky lil critters DO fight back - heck, they ambush us with First Strike and Hypnotise etc ;)

#307 paingwin

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 06:02

we DO attack mindless little creatures after all :).

. . . but that's OK, because they are EVIL, have no souls, don't feel pain, and never donate.


n some of the pesky lil critters DO fight back - heck, they ambush us with First Strike and Hypnotise etc ;)


good thing you have SSI then huh.........which is basically the same as them not fighting back at all yet again.

#308 BaiLong

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 06:03

Once again, I see many levelers coming on here to complain about how it is going to affect them and their game, but I don't see many of them offering any suggestions.


I believe we have made suggestions, but PvPers don't like them and that's that apparently :lol:

An agreement will never be reached, I stand strong on my view that we should all get drunk and see what the cows have in store! 8)

#309 DragonLord

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 06:06


. . . but that's OK, because they are EVIL, have no souls, don't feel pain, and never donate.


n some of the pesky lil critters DO fight back - heck, they ambush us with First Strike and Hypnotise etc ;)


good thing you have SSI then huh.........which is basically the same as them not fighting back at all yet again.


We have PvP protection too , which is the same as not being hit in PvP LOL... But, that should be free *bangs that old drum again ..*

#310 Grimwald

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 06:07

The key is to get rid of the opt-in/out.. That is what will fix the ladder, that is what will fix PvP. Or there is no point in even discussing this. This is just another tweak of a broken ladder system..


You are doing that by forcing PvP on players who don't want to play PvP. FallenSword is played on different ways, some like PvP, some others like Arena, some like levelling or Titan hunting. Just keep the opt in/out as it is today, this will make sure that only those who want to participate in the ladder will be the ones who actually want to PvP. For all the other facets of the game you must choose an action, you choose to be an guild buffer, you choose to be an leveller, etc etc. But everyone should be part of PvP because PvPers like to have easy targets?

#311 DragonLord

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 06:07

Once again, I see many levelers coming on here to complain about how it is going to affect them and their game, but I don't see many of them offering any suggestions.


I believe we have made suggestions, but PvPers don't like them and that's that apparently :lol:

An agreement will never be reached, I stand strong on my view that we should all get drunk and see what the cows have in store! 8)


You're prolly right - 'tis just "you say, I say" at the moment (but a bit more civilised than that) - Hoof has disappeared, probably drafting #5 or with his head inside the diet coke machine ...

#312 paingwin

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 06:10

The key is to get rid of the opt-in/out.. That is what will fix the ladder, that is what will fix PvP. Or there is no point in even discussing this. This is just another tweak of a broken ladder system..


You are doing that by forcing PvP on players who don't want to play PvP. FallenSword is played on different ways, some like PvP, some others like Arena, some like levelling or Titan hunting. Just keep the opt in/out as it is today, this will make sure that only those who want to participate in the ladder will be the ones who actually want to PvP. For all the other facets of the game you must choose an action, you choose to be an guild buffer, you choose to be an leveller, etc etc. But everyone should be part of PvP because PvPers like to have easy targets?

everyone is a target of pvp whether they are opted into the ladder or not so i dont understand your argument here?

#313 4gottn4ver

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 06:11

seen a few things that are like WTF. :shock: did my best to read thru this topic but late at nite here.

when it 1st went to this ' ladder ' style some liked it an others hated it. an it was also at one point a 99 lvl range of be able to hit for that got cut down in range. then got ' fixed ' yet again and few more times. just feels by time it is done ' fixing ' none of us will remember how it started out or even how it was half way to that point.

I tried the ladder long ago but as for myself I just didn't care for it, can get some nice items from playing ladder no doubt about that. but do I still PvP yep, not for ladder/ BB but for gold/ prestige.

the way it was during the 99 lvl range to attack I sorta liked an is sorta sounding like what is being mentioned here.

everyone basically started out with 1000 rating when ladder re-set there was no opt in/ out aspect on ladder. any target less then 7 days active could gain gold/ prestige and rating from a pvp hit which placed you on ladder either way in your attack range.

this is where starts getting odd

All these people claiming WE'RE the reason the BB is dead.. The reason its dead is because the pvp guild stick together and soft clear each other and STOMP anyone that dares to stomp them. What the BB needs is mandatory 100 stamina clears/every hit bountiable. If people know that placing a bounty has a guaranteed effect they will be a lot more placed...



Grossly inaccurate.

Out of my last 50 clears maybe 10% were from allied guilds. The simple fact that I remain in the Bounty Board for HOURS shows clearly that I am not asking my friends or allies to soft clear me.


so a mandatory max 100 stam hit for clearing/ every hit can be posted for a single PvP hit.

can get posted for a deflected hit
can get posted for a no xp/ gold loss on target
can get posted for a loss on attacking a target

and all in which get posted of ten 100 stam hits in which the one could CB( Counter Bounty ) a BH'er for each attack made to clear for ten bounty's of 100 stam's. :shock:

you want more punishment for 1 hit that takes at MAX 10% of a level? we lose 2x that on a 10 stam clear...and 50x for a true deleveling party...that sounds fair to me


For one hit? No, and that was nearly never the case (unless it was an old score being settled). Don't muddy the waters of how that was used.


I have known a few that had this happen to them, one did a min 10 stam hit and another gotten deflected on attacks an they had a 5 lvl party on them over it.

but a target up on BB a BH'er doesn't know most of the times why they are posted if they are offline. but yet they can be posted as well no matter if is was a soft clear or a party clear as a CB.

I never pvp'd until 400. I'd been hit a bunch before then, irritated me but shrugged it off. At 400 I was repeatedly hit.I got ticked, talked to a friend and realized its a game.I decided to dabble in bounty hunting due to it and try it a bit. I met gravely, and gold hit someone first time ever and i got smashed for it..we both did. It was FUN.

PvP lets players who otherwise would never meet in the lands of fs, interact with one another. it's not always sunshine and daisies. Sometimes you tick someone off and make a lifetime enemy, sometimes you make a friend..or maybe nothing happens.You might get stomped..you might not.Thats the thrill of it. Someone can take revenge on you for your "evil" deeds. I find it exciting.


You can defend friends and allies who have been wronged. Buffing one another, clearing one another..fighting along side one another, and losing levels for one another. I;ve been in guilds where some don't pvp much or at all. And i've seen them pick up their swords and decide to lose levels for their fellow guildies in the name of justice or to defend ones honor, which makes one proud. Why? because they cared. It's the most exciting aspect of the game and the most risky.


major +1 to ya there :wink:

also it was mentioned someplace else on a structure for guilds to build for ' teaching ' fellow guildmates PvP aspect w/o risk of gold/ xp loss on this in house. this would let players that haven't done that a way to learn about it and be able to better self protect themself in gear from being hit.

and reason why Hoof might not be answering is maybe cause he is out of office and/ or might be sleeping at his home. the Hoof does not need to be here 24/7/365, geez :roll: if he has to then guess ones griping he hasn't answered try being here 24/7/365

#314 DragonLord

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 06:16

and reason why Hoof might not be answering is maybe cause he is out of office and/ or might be sleeping at his home. the Hoof does not need to be here 24/7/365, geez :roll: if he has to then guess ones griping he hasn't answered try being here 24/7/365


Hoof is, for the most part, a night owl - works thru the night 'cos he can get more done. So, it's not unusual for him to be online around these times ...

#315 abhorrence

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 06:20

You get gold and, by your own admission, pleasure from harming the other player. And you risk nothing, because by your own admission, you don't care about XP loss.
What does a leveler get when they pay for a bounty? Nothing, they just lose more gold and give you a free shot and a chance to, as PvPers call it, "dance on the bounty board."

See the issue yet? See why levelers hate PvP yet? See why the BB is dead yet ?


As you continue to say it time and time again I will point it out clearly for you. When you get posted on the Bounty Board you lose experience. That a PvPer doesn't mind losing experience doesn't make it any less of a penalty. The exp is still gone, it still needs to be regained. We still need to maintain levels to keep our gear and use our sets. That we can look at losing a bit of exp as part of the game and move on and you can not, speaks volumes.

#316 KitiaraLi

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 06:21

Aight - I'll comment on the OP, and then read the bloody 22 pages of comments.

[*]PvP Rating starts at 0 when the PvP Ladder resets.
Sounds fine :)

[*]Keep the opt-in/out of the PvP Ladder.
No no no and no! Then this new "system" would just turn into the old. If you need to opt in to get hit, what incentive do you have to post a bounty for the hit? It would solve absolutely nothing.

[*]Remove the PvP Protection upgrade (except for new player protection).
It should nvr have been introduced in the first place, and is still being used as a loophole in the gold hiding game. I have also met my fair share of ppl making rude remarks in their bios, via pms and FSbox, and then hiding away with pvp opt out, leaving no other option than submitting a ticket on 'em (which some of us don't do).

[*]PvP Rating can only be gained from a player who has been active in the last 48 hours.
Hmmm yeah... link prestige to this as well (think that is 7? days now).

[*]PvP Rating can only be gained once from a player who has a PvP Rating of 0. (This prevents players not wanting to participate from being hit hourly for PvP Rating).
It also gives the advantage to the player online when the rating resets. If we are two active pvp'ers up in my level range, and I am sleeping while the rating reset, I can technically wake up to only 1 viable target.
Make it "be hit for rating 1 time per player". That way everyone can hit and gain a little rating once, and the target is not left safe from the ones who have hit already (hourlies for xp/gold must stay in place).


[*]Players can only attack other players within +/-10 of their virtual level, unless they have a PvP Rating greater than 0 and are within the top 10 of their PvP Band - they can then attack any of the other top 10 players in their band.
Super :)

[*]PvP Rating is gained with the following formula outwith the bounty board:

PvP Rating Gain = floor(Stamina Used * 0.5) + (floor(Stamina Used * 0.5) * (Opponent PvP Rating / Your PvP Rating))
The PvP Rating Gain is then capped by the amount of stamina used.
Sure, make it complicated :) 1 rating for 1 stam used would have worked for me :wink:

[*]PvP Rating is gained with the following formula when completing bounties:
PvP Rating Gain = floor(Stamina Used * 0.1) * (Opponent Level / Your Level) + (10 * (Wins / (Wins + Loses)))
Again, I would have kept it simple. +10 for completing a bounty on someone in your own bracket, or above - and +1 for completing on someone below.

[*]Change the Gloat/Honor skill to take/protect more gold.
Yes please. And do check into how the thievery and MT enhancements work while at it, they still seem to be very low.

[*]Addition of new bound potions for PvP rewards.
.. and new items being bound as well, yes?

[*]Change Bounty Tickets so they are purchased with gold instead of Fallen Sword Points. (If this change goes ahead, your current Bounty Tickets will be converted back into Fallen Sword Points).[/list]Sounds fine to me.

We've made this poll a Yes / No to get a good overview on this idea but as always we appreciate any feedback you give us and will take your suggestions on board.


This is by far a better suggestion than rev.3 .. it still has some holes in it though, and for some reason it is starting to look like the old (current) ladder system, which I don't appreciate much. The idea was to bring life back to the pvp aspects of the game, all while showing WHO actually pvps.

I am also missing you picking up the ideas on new PvP medals.
- Thieves medal - based on gold stolen.
- Mugger medal - based on no. of ppl you've killed in pvp.

... that sorta thing

No one can deny that we changed this game and influenced it in such a way that NO ONE could compete with us.. so much so that they changed the rules. ~Abhorrence, chosen founder of Cerulean Sins


#317 BaiLong

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 06:23

As you continue to say it time and time again I will point it out clearly for you. When you get posted on the Bounty Board you lose experience. That a PvPer doesn't mind losing experience doesn't make it any less of a penalty. The exp is still gone, it still needs to be regained. We still need to maintain levels to keep our gear and use our sets. That we can look at losing a bit of exp as part of the game and move on and you can not, speaks volumes.


The problem is that you choose to put yourself in a position to lose XP, and we do not have the liberty of such a choice.

#318 RebornJedi

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 06:27

Remove the PvP Protection upgrade (except for new player protection).

Please DO..its been a tool for Marketplace manipulation since it was introduced(guess HCS can't complain about that though :lol: )

Change the Gloat/Honor skill to take/protect more gold.

*thumbs up*

Change Bounty Tickets so they are purchased with gold instead of Fallen Sword Points. (If this change goes ahead, your current Bounty Tickets will be converted back into Fallen Sword Points)

*double thumbs up*

 


#319 abhorrence

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 06:29


As you continue to say it time and time again I will point it out clearly for you. When you get posted on the Bounty Board you lose experience. That a PvPer doesn't mind losing experience doesn't make it any less of a penalty. The exp is still gone, it still needs to be regained. We still need to maintain levels to keep our gear and use our sets. That we can look at losing a bit of exp as part of the game and move on and you can not, speaks volumes.


The problem is that you choose to put yourself in a position to lose XP, and we do not have the liberty of such a choice.


Of course you do. You log in ever time and choose to partake in FS as a whole. This isn't new information to you that you can get hit in PvP.

#320 fs_tawebyrd

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 06:30

lets see how many times we have to vote before it gets so bothersome yes wins :roll: why not get better security against hacks or start cracking down on thieves so they dont prosper or even fixing bugs in vidoes getting exploited by some and not able to by others never seen that in a post or even how about stopping censorship of bios that arent offensive when u allow avis of almost any kind i ve seen numerous flipping the bird in avis hows that not offensive to some when a bare ass isnt lmaO


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