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Official Suggestion : PvP Improvements (rev. 4)


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Do you like this revision?

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    Percentage of vote: 34.45%

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    Percentage of vote: 65.55%

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#341 Zenth

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 06:57

If you want a ACTIVE Bounty Board Let the VICTIMS chose the amount of stamina required for each hit. You should not have to put your friends in harms ways to get your justice. Its all good if you have a bunch of friends that like to PvP and bounty Hunt but when you don't have those types of players on your side the bounty Board does nothing for you. This would also solve the problem of the quick soft clears keeping the gold thief safe.

Yes 100 stam Bounties would be high risk but is the chose of the BH to accept that bounty or not.

It should not be enjoyable to be on the Bounty Board EVER.

Those that say the enjoy Dancing on the board just prove what a joke it is.


Why should it be mandatory to lose 1 level, 2 levels, or more for 1 pvp hit?



Its no different then getting PVP friends to do the same thing. You just chose to hit some one that does not have those types of friends and can afford to pay the bounty hunters to do it. I'm sure if the reward is not worth it a high risk bounty would not be cleared anyways by the normal Bounty Hunters. Right now people are crying the Board is dead and for the most part its because there is NO justice from the board its a joke and not worth it to even really use it. If you cant handle knowing there is a really good chance of losing 5 levels each time your on the board don't take the risk.

A lot of people get hit for gold just after converting FSP they just donated real money for yes we should be able to take 5 levels from you.

#342 BaiLong

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 06:58


Point to where I am not please.


Your piss-poor attitude is the reason both sides will never come to an agreement.


I never commented on Maehs first thread. When HCS came to the forums with the idea I commented on THAT idea and softened every aspect of it to lean towards 0 rated players. Please point out where I have been nonobjective.


Read every post you've made on this thread. Nobody has any good ideas but you, I bow down.

#343 abhorrence

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 07:00

And besides:

And this also would minimize some common abusive practices, like having a friend start your clear and then stop at 9, so you can wack the bounty-placer with immunity for a good long time, with your friend at the ready to do one last hit if anyone else takes the bounty.

Don't you agree that this an an abuse that needs to be stopped?


That has little or no bearing on this conversation other then to say that under the new system there would be a better reward for completing bounties and they would get cleared more quickly.

#344 abhorrence

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 07:01

Read every post you've made on this thread. Nobody has any good ideas but you, I bow down.


I've actually credited Maeh and many others with the ideas I put forth here.

#345 RebornJedi

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 07:01


you know you won't stop at one hit if you are posted for a 100 required bounty :lol: ...one that will probably not be taken for hours upon hours if its only for a gold reward. they would have to pay some nice fsp to get that done and over with, so you can't swing again and not be bountied...again lol...which would turn out to be wasted resources by the attacked party. might as well shrug off the hit, thank your xp gain, and move on.

suggesting more then x2 xp loss on the board depending on the stamina used on the attack would do more damage i think...still, kinda drastic for one hit. think the only thing that should be punished harder is multiple attacks on the same person daily/weekly. maybe you should be able to add up the hits and post a big bounty that does x5+ xp loss.

single gold hits are mostly the victims greedy fault..hourly pvping is for xp and should be punished with more xp loss.


What is it you think the BB will look like if people get to place bounties for mandatory 100 stams? The bounties must be cleared. Ten 100 stams will be 20 times the experience take in a direct PvP hit. You think PvP will survive that?

i don't agree with teh mandatory 100 stam clears..think it was a sloppy suggestion to punish pvpers..thought i pointed that out x)) sarz, meh drunks..but you know you wouldn't stop at one pvp attack if 100 stam clears were the outcome of your one attack. plus being backed by a pvp guild or two could put enough threat that your bounty doesn't get cleared outside the alliance so you could continue to hit over and over until your cleared bounty was worth it ;) just trying to show the exploit possible with zenth's suggestion(which has been suggested lots before)

 


#346 abhorrence

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 07:04

Its no different then getting PVP friends to do the same thing. You just chose to hit some one that does not have those types of friends and can afford to pay the bounty hunters to do it. I'm sure if the reward is not worth it a high risk bounty would not be cleared anyways by the normal Bounty Hunters. Right now people are crying the Board is dead and for the most part its because there is NO justice from the board its a joke and not worth it to even really use it. If you cant handle knowing there is a really good chance of losing 5 levels each time your on the board don't take the risk.

A lot of people get hit for gold just after converting FSP they just donated real money for yes we should be able to take 5 levels from you.


There is an extremely large difference. You are guaranteeing that a certain amount of exp 20, 30, 40 times what the target lost will be removed. While gathering friends together shows teamwork and effort and a use of game resources to achieve something.

#347 KitiaraLi

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 07:04

Wouldn't players just attack all the players within their level range with 0 PvP Rating?

(I.e go for easy targets who are not setup for PvP to get PvP Rating).

Yes? If you want someone to fight over rating, they need to get the rating from somewhere in the first place, correct?

What do you suggest instead? Removing the opt-in/out just allows the PvP Rating farming of players who have no interest in PvP.

You already have several ingame mechanisms in place for this - best one being the bounty board, if used correctly.
You could alter PvP Protection around. Make it cheaper (not a lot, still needs to be a sink), and let it be for rating only. That would eliminate the farming option, and the current manipulation of the marketplace.

If you removed the opt-in, how would you prevent players with no interest in PvP getting farmed for PvP Rating?

I'll ask the counter Q; Why do you feel an urge to protect ppl from being hit for rating? They have the option to hit back or post bounties.
If not to your satisfaction, look up a few lines.

So what would stop you attacking all the players with 0 PvP Rating within your level range to farm PvP Rating?

Nothing, if you are a pvp'er, who doesn't mind the risk of getting stomped on the board.


I have no clue why, or when - but for some reason this game has turned into a me-me-me-me thing. When I started playing, you joined a guild for help, advice AND protection, and in return you offered the same back.
You got smacked for your gold, you had your guild mates help take some lvls of the hitter. You had a guild mate getting hit, you helped taking lvls of the mugger.
How come this is no longer so?

Ppl in most guilds nowadays, are there for one reason only; "What do I get from being here!?"

If guilds started acting as such, then maybe we wouldn't hear all the complaining n whining about PvP guilds being gangs of bullies. Not our fault we know how to stick together and help each other out.... and it is not like we are the only ones capable of doing so. Try it, you might njoy it and you might even get some friends and build stronger guilds.

No one can deny that we changed this game and influenced it in such a way that NO ONE could compete with us.. so much so that they changed the rules. ~Abhorrence, chosen founder of Cerulean Sins


#348 abhorrence

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 07:07

that your bounty doesn't get cleared outside the alliance so you could continue to hit over and over until your cleared bounty was worth it ;) just trying to show the exploit possible with zenth's suggestion(which has been suggested lots before)


I will say again. The majority of my bounties are cleared by people that I do not ask to take it nor do I have any sort of relationship with them. Mostly they are high level players that see a mid range bounty that will not cost them a lot of tokens and they take my bounty.

#349 RebornJedi

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 07:08

What do you suggest instead? Removing the opt-in/out just allows the PvP Rating farming of players who have no interest in PvP.

You already have several ingame mechanisms in place for this - best one being the bounty board, if used correctly.
You could alter PvP Protection around. Make it cheaper (not a lot, still needs to be a sink), and let it be for rating only. That would eliminate the farming option, and the current manipulation of the marketplace.

*thumbs up*..i love the idea of making it rating only. would stop them from being hit for the ladder but not for gold..excellent

 


#350 DaleJunior

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 07:09


The game is built on conflict. You gain xp, you lose xp. You gain gold, you lose gold. Your hit in pvp and lose gold and xp. You hit back and take gold and xp. or You post a bounty and get revenge. I dont think its that complicated?


Ok, and what exactly do you gain by taking a non PvP'ers XP? Why is it so important that it is taken? (keeping in mind that this is only referring to those that have never initiated an attack whether for gold or rating)



I attack them and take gold, and rating ( in some cases) and i "wound them" or hurt them slightly" by taking xp.They have the option to hurt me back ALOT more via a bounty.I don't see an issue.


Removing xp loss loss negates the reason for a BB. Removing the BB is a core aspect of the game. PvP without xp loss is simply GvG. Which we already have if i am correct.


Hi. Haven't read through to the end.. Again..I think what this person is asking is what do YOU, the PvP'er, gain, if anything, by taking my, the leveler's, XP during a hit? Still haven't heard a valid answer to this question. What exactly do you gain from it? I think that's all we want to know. Is it just the satisfaction of "HAHA! Gotcha!! I took your XP you stinkin' leveler!!"? or what? Thanks!! :)

#351 abhorrence

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 07:17

a 10-stam bounty clear with Conserve250 takes 17.5% of a level.


LOL you can stop right there. Who's going to pay for a conserve 250 to have someone clear your bounty? Also you can't apply the % of conserve directly to 1 10 hit clear. You'd need a much larger field. That would require you to have all your clearers use Conserve 250.

#352 Zenth

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 07:18

Oh and by the way I never said mandatory 100 stam. I said let the Player chose how much they wanted the bounty to be. 10 – 100.
Would I place a 100 stam on someone that caught me hunting and grabbed a million gold off me? No that would not be worth it. Am I going to place that 100 stam bounty on the guy that keep hitting me a few times a week until I can get out of his reach Hell ya I will. I get hit plenty and do nothing about most of the time.

The last bounty I placed was after the same person hit me multiple times. So the last time he hit I waited for most of his buffs to drop and then placed the bounty. He was off line during the time the bounty got cleared. So during the bounty I take a peak at him watching his on hand gold. When I see it dropping I know someone is working on my Bounty. So the bounty is completed and I take one last look and what do you know his he has a little more gold then when the bounty was started. So who ever cleared the bounty gave the gold back +some. Do you call that justice? I know I don’t I call that a friend doing the attacker a favor.

#353 abhorrence

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 07:20

And this also would minimize some common abusive practices, like having a friend start your clear and then stop at 9, so you can wack the bounty-placer with immunity for a good long time, with your friend at the ready to do one last hit if anyone else takes the bounty.

That has little or no bearing on this conversation other then to say that under the new system there would be a better reward for completing bounties and they would get cleared more quickly.

You don't deny this happens now, but you tell us it won't happen if HC gives you what you want.
Sorry, I don't find that at all convincing.

The best fix for this is easy: hits on the victim during the bounty they placed should be bountiable.
You'll see more bounties posted that way, so it will promote activity.


This has been addressed and again has no bearing on this issue. In addition that would mean that you could bounty a bounty clear 10 times as well and is not practical.

#354 KitiaraLi

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 07:21

a 10-stam bounty clear with Conserve250 takes 17.5% of a level.

That is one friendly bounty hunter you have there .. and rich as well. Not only investing tickets, normal pots n stam - but also popping cons250 at the cost of 30+ FSP.

*snip* many levelers don't bother, because the bounty gains them nothing.

What is it you want ppl to gain from bountying someone? The board is a place to throw ppl for revenge, to ensure that some sorta punishment gets dealt, not a place to throw ppl for a personal gain.

No one can deny that we changed this game and influenced it in such a way that NO ONE could compete with us.. so much so that they changed the rules. ~Abhorrence, chosen founder of Cerulean Sins


#355 RebornJedi

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 07:24


The best fix for this is easy: hits on the victim during the bounty they placed should be bountiable.
You'll see more bounties posted that way, so it will promote activity.


This has been addressed and again has no bearing on this issue. In addition that would mean that you could bounty a bounty clear 10 times as well and is not practical.

could have it not affect bounty hits, right?

 


#356 evilbry

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 07:24

The last bounty I placed was after the same person hit me multiple times. So the last time he hit I waited for most of his buffs to drop and then placed the bounty. He was off line during the time the bounty got cleared. So during the bounty I take a peak at him watching his on hand gold. When I see it dropping I know someone is working on my Bounty. So the bounty is completed and I take one last look and what do you know his he has a little more gold then when the bounty was started. So who ever cleared the bounty gave the gold back +some. Do you call that justice? I know I don’t I call that a friend doing the attacker a favor.

perhaps the person clearing the bounty lost a few times...
it happens ya know..

Maybe they had auctions close to finishing and gold came in from there...
Maybe they had a guild member send them gold to hold.
maybe they had an outstanding ST which was accepted while they were offline.

Too many factors come into play here to just assume the one which fits in best with your way of thinking.

#357 BaiLong

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 07:27


The best fix for this is easy: hits on the victim during the bounty they placed should be bountiable.
You'll see more bounties posted that way, so it will promote activity.


This has been addressed and again has no bearing on this issue. In addition that would mean that you could bounty a bounty clear 10 times as well and is not practical.

could have it not affect bounty hits, right?


Exactly what I was thinking, prevents those from sitting on the board and molesting their victims with no risk of retaliation. (I recall risk being an integral part of the PvP argument)

#358 Lutrafs

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 07:28

For information on the previous revision please see the following thread:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=104269

Thank you to all players for their feedback on the previous revision (especially Abhorrence).

I'm going to try and keep this revision concise to make it easier to read/discuss.


[*:168oy4y9]PvP Rating starts at 0 when the PvP Ladder resets.


[*:168oy4y9]Keep the opt-in/out of the PvP Ladder.


[*:168oy4y9]Remove the PvP Protection upgrade (except for new player protection).


[*:168oy4y9]PvP Rating can only be gained from a player who has been active in the last 48 hours.


[*:168oy4y9]PvP Rating can only be gained once from a player who has a PvP Rating of 0. (This prevents players not wanting to participate from being hit hourly for PvP Rating).


[*:168oy4y9]Players can only attack other players within +/-10 of their virtual level, unless they have a PvP Rating greater than 0 and are within the top 10 of their PvP Band - they can then attack any of the other top 10 players in their band.


[*:168oy4y9]PvP Rating is gained with the following formula outwith the bounty board:

PvP Rating Gain = floor(Stamina Used * 0.5) + (floor(Stamina Used * 0.5) * (Opponent PvP Rating / Your PvP Rating))
The PvP Rating Gain is then capped by the amount of stamina used.


[*:168oy4y9]PvP Rating is gained with the following formula when completing bounties:
PvP Rating Gain = floor(Stamina Used * 0.1) * (Opponent Level / Your Level) + (10 * (Wins / (Wins + Loses)))


[*:168oy4y9]Change the Gloat/Honor skill to take/protect more gold.


[*:168oy4y9]Addition of new bound potions for PvP rewards.


[*:168oy4y9]Change Bounty Tickets so they are purchased with gold instead of Fallen Sword Points. (If this change goes ahead, your current Bounty Tickets will be converted back into Fallen Sword Points).
We've made this poll a Yes / No to get a good overview on this idea but as always we appreciate any feedback you give us and will take your suggestions on board.


I do like and agree with all the afore mentioned changes, my only question is with the way you describe the new system there would be no need for the opt in/out option. My question is why is it needed?

It is my understanding all players can be hit, because everyones rating starts at 0, therefore when someone gets hit thier rating then drops below 0. So they could no longer be a target unless they were to get thier rating back up above 0. Effectively this defeats the purpose of needing the opt out option as even with the opt out option you can still get hit, but can only get hit 1 time, and with opting in its the same way if your rating stays below 0.

Maybe I just need it explained a little more, but from what I understand opt in/out wouldnt be needed anymore.

Either way I like the changes and vote yes, and hope to see them implimented sometime soon, but tested thoroughly first to ensure as few bugs as possible.

#359 Mekrushu

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 07:28

And besides:[quote name="LawDog26"]And this also would minimize some common abusive practices, like having a friend start your clear and then stop at 9, so you can wack the bounty-placer with immunity for a good long time, with your friend at the ready to do one last hit if anyone else takes the bounty.[/quote]

You don't deny this happens now, but you tell us it won't happen if HC gives you what you want.
Sorry, I don't find that at all convincing.

The best fix for this is easy: hits on the victim during the bounty they placed should be bountiable.
You'll see more bounties posted that way, so it will promote activity.[/quote][/quote]

Exactly...I've been saying this for a year now (and a page back hehe) and was told by HCS it wasn't going to change. I guess a dead BB is a much better alternative?

FSsig.jpg

 

Tact is for those that lack the intelligence to be sarcastic!


#360 KitiaraLi

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 07:30

But way to dodge the real issue -- that succesful thieves still come out ahead even if they are bountied -- by (incorrectly) picking on the math. And you must agree that when PvPers say they always loose 20% of a level to a bounty, they are misrepresenting the facts. 18.3% is probably closer to the average.


*shrugs* 20% or 18.3% - who cares? It is still more than the 10% the pvper has taken with a 100 stammer. And if the bounty placer had any friends n relatives, it wouldn't be 18.3% - but 500% :wink:

No one can deny that we changed this game and influenced it in such a way that NO ONE could compete with us.. so much so that they changed the rules. ~Abhorrence, chosen founder of Cerulean Sins



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