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Official Suggestion : PvP Improvements (rev. 6)


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#201 Woulfe

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 18:53

i like 90% of this idea!! That said I have still voted neutral because of this

Bound potions

Im still at a loss to understand why the pvpers are constantly being treated like a 2nd class player. Can someone give me one valid reason for this? There is no other aspect of the game given so many restrictions including the recipe levels, binding rewards and the whole opt in thing im glad is being removed now!

Lets examine a few other game aspects and see why I feel like we are being discriminated against,,,,

Titan hunting,,its been proven there was and probabally is cheating going on but the guild that wins the 50% gets a unbound epic item worth many many FSP

Arenas,,,nobodys complaining the arena players have a monopoly on the resources to make several nice recipes, nobody demanded level restrictions on inventing those and I know of a few potions that are WAY better than what is available elsewhere the example being pot of greater cloak WHY ISNT THAT BOUND?????

GvG, id like to slip in a plug to ask for new gear for RP rewards please but saying that why arent those items bound?

There is no other area of the game that discourages hard work for reward more than pvp ladder. I would like to challenge everyone to change my mind on binding of these items and give me the reasons why we should be segregated from the rest of FS in this way because currently I have to say strongly disagree unless someone wants to give us a example of these potions and why they should be bound,,,maybe they are just so powerful they had to be? A 24 hour deflect or 48 hour cloak perhaps? The arena cloak is 10 hours with BM so they should be way better than that UNBOUND potion to justify it.


I really appreciate you pointing out what all these groups get. I agree that PvPers should get something for their troubles... and so should the levelers. Where are our exclusive potions and gear to sell to the PvPers, Titian hunters and GvGers when they choose not to level.

As you say "justify it"

#202 Hoofmaster

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 18:53

Hoof,

Is 100 rating the max amount a player can achieve on an off-the-board PVP hit?

I'm still not going to vote until this question is answered.


With the current formula we're discussing yes - do you think it should be changed?

#203 Hoofmaster

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 18:54


[*]If you are defeated in combat (attacking or defending), you will lose 50% of the equivalent PvP Rating you would have gained if you won the combat. Note that your PvP Rating can never be reduced below 0. Note also you can only gain PvP Rating when initiating combat.


Can someone tell me if im getting this right?. Lets's say just for example that two people have a rating of 10. Person A hits person B and wins, and (again for example) gains 10 rating. Person B would then lose 5 dropping them down to 5 in total, and person A is now on 20. So Person B attacks person A, and gains 10 - putting them up to 15, and dropping A down to 15. So by attacking each other each winning once and losing once, they both gain from it..

If the gain for a win is higher than the loss for a loss, people can trade hits hourly and both gain rating as long as they keep similar figures??

Or am I just being braindead and missing something obvious?


Sorry to quote myself, but can anyone answer this?, because if it is the way it appears to be it's a pretty fatal flaw in the system, and just about the most easily abusable implimentation ever..


Player B would not lose the 5 PvP Rating as they didn't initiate the attack.

I do see what your saying though - does anyone have any thoughts on this?

#204 paingwin

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 18:55

each player can only gain PvP Rating from a player with 0 PvP Rating once per reset of the PvP Ladder. Assuming the ladder resets every 3 - 4 days, this means it would only be worthwhile for each player on the ladder to initiate combat with a 0 PvP Rating player once in that time frame (and they would have a 75% reduction to the xp loss).

Hrrm, that seems a little too favorable to us levelers. If there are only 5% of the people playing the ladder, only 5% (aprox) of the levelers will be hit for rating. No mistake, that's good for me, but I think it forces the PvPers into a an isolation zone too quickly.

I think you can do better.

If you are going to implement this by adding a new flag that is set when a player attacks an R-0 ("Rating=0") player, I suggest using a counter rather than a boolean. Then, you can tune the system to allow a PvPer to gain rating from 1, 2, 3 or 4 levelers -- whatever seems to strike the right balance -- and perhaps on a per-bracket basis.


That isn't a bad idea actually :)

Limiting the amount of times you can gain PvP Rating from players with 0 PvP Rating each reset sounds good.

i can dig this, would severely put to rest the fears of people being "farmed" for rating. but this would kinda negate the need for a drastic reduction in exp loss.....

#205 watagashi

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 18:55

potions should be bound so that if you want them you HAVE to participate(also why I suggested a good leveling potion or two in there)


Then apply the same to arenas, titans and GvG,,if "If you want them you have to participate" is the best reason for binding let it be made on other aspects of the game too.

Still waiting for a reasonable explination why pvp items must be bound but no others

#206 cleardawn

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 18:56

no no and no lol but i do like the proposed changes to gloat and honor ...main reason.. my targets will be gold thieves and bounty hunters and it could kill gold hunting in some bands totally ~ if you cant get on much to stay buffed your gonna be hammered for pvp or your only option would be to become a gvger..kinda unfair on those who like to pvp for gold or bountyhunt (and not just against players way lower than your range) ~ yes you have a boarder range but your not going to hit targets only giving you 25% transfer when you can hit players with pvp and get more for your stam..and that will be the other types of pvpers.

The current system isnt a bad one at all ~ pvpers are up and coming into the higher ranges.. it will take time yes because of the xp loss involved lol (not at all saying xp loss shouldnt be occured!). Something needs to be done regarding the rewards to make them more desirable but i think changing it to this extent will cause all sorts of issues and id hate to see the ladder deter from pvp in other aspects.

#207 fs_commiedevo

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 18:56

while I agree your allowed your opinion...stating you'd like an EASILY abused system to protect your xp/gold over a FAIR system is where some of us got upset....

We are never gonna agree but to try and act like PvP'ers are scum or don't pay to play like everyone else is wrong


Well I would love to try ladder... Would be something fun to do while waiting for stamina to fill... But not with the xp loss thats there..


lol. I tend to agree, you should probably not PvP if you are so scared to lose levels.

#208 Melike1hit

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 18:56

because i want a free skill reset before i hit 500 i am gunna argue a point


In the past when you made changes to a buff you have given us a free reset of our skills. Well you changes 2 skills. Will you be resetting our skills?

#209 Hoofmaster

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 18:56

potions should be bound so that if you want them you HAVE to participate(also why I suggested a good leveling potion or two in there)


Then apply the same to arenas, titans and GvG,,if "If you want them you have to participate" is the best reason for binding let it be made on other aspects of the game too.

Still waiting for a reasonable explination why pvp items must be bound but no others


Not all would have to be bound - we can discuss improvements to the PvP Ladder rewards after though :)

#210 Maury Bund

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 18:56

If I'm opted in to PvP, can I get 75% reduction in xp lost to a monster in PvE? Even though that RARELY ever happens, it would be a nice trade-off for that lack of xp taken in PvP to a non-combatant. Then I could take those skill points I have invested in SSI and put them to something else.

While I'm on that subject, I think the ladder should ONLY be inhabited by players of that level. If you get a skill cast you that is above your level, you should be made ineligible to win tokens (as dropping them to 0 would create a HUGE loophole for hitting for xp loss and then protection for 25% hit). How is it fair to a level 300 who has to constantly battle a player who got lucky enough to be in a guild with 30 level 900+ who can put all kinds of skills on them vs a normal player? If you want to be a leveler, you select hunting skills for yourself. If you want to PvP, you select skills more approriate to that. Not only is the opt -in/out a joke to the PvP system, it has no longer become a game about skill and grit, but who can buy the best potions and buffs, or be lucky enough to consistently be given them.

#211 tlthomasjr

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 18:57

The biggest problem I'm seeing is treating all PvPers like they have the same agenda. What's good for the bounty hunters probably won't be good for the gold "liberators" (lets not say thieves) which won't be good for the medal seekers, etc...

Until there is a way that all facets can be addressed, it will never be 100% fair for everyone. Which either means dividing PvP into different groupings (not so easy since many practice different aspects at once) or sitting down and having a beer and saying 'Yeah, I can live with this'


i agree. As i keep saying, pvp ladder is no more pvp than the pvp arena is, and never was.
most pvp players would agree that tokens did more for killing pvp than anything else period.
So make the ladder what it really is anyway, a tournament.
Rating should return to what it used to be, as should dominance medals, because those are both part of pvp and have no place in a tournament.
And like any tournament I have ever entered, it should have an entrance fee, and a reward to justify the fee for the champion who wins it.
And I agree with grendel, anything won via pvp should not be bound anymor than arena prizes or RP from gvg.

#212 Hoofmaster

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 18:57

because i want a free skill reset before i hit 500 i am gunna argue a point


In the past when you made changes to a buff you have given us a free reset of our skills. Well you changes 2 skills. Will you be resetting our skills?


If we changed those skills, we would allow players to reset their skills.

#213 Kedyn

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 18:57

Hoof,

Is 100 rating the max amount a player can achieve on an off-the-board PVP hit?

I'm still not going to vote until this question is answered.


With the current formula we're discussing yes - do you think it should be changed?


No, 100 max rating gained is definitely good. I just wanted to make sure we weren't going to get any ridiculous numbers where players would wait until the last minute to hit those on the ladder and receive 500-1000 rating per hit they win over those who are higher than them.

And I agree with Law above that limiting the number of 0 rating players you can hit is a good thing (only in the fact of gaining rating). You should still be able to hit for Gold / Slight XP loss if you've already reached your rating max.

#214 livingsin

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 18:58

did I say I was againnst binding titan/arena/etc? I think would reduce monoplies on titans,arena etc..will this happen...NO

#215 Lutrafs

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 18:59

Hoof,

Is 100 rating the max amount a player can achieve on an off-the-board PVP hit?

I'm still not going to vote until this question is answered.


With the current formula we're discussing yes - do you think it should be changed?


I think you need to leave the xp loss alone, xp loss should occur at the same rate regardless of what your pvp rating it, this will keep the bb moving and the non pvpers always have the option to bounty, and when the player bounties the attacker that is placed on the bb loses 2x the xp of the player that placed it.

Therefore there shouldnt be any change in xp loss, just remove the opt in/out option

#216 watagashi

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 18:59

i like 90% of this idea!! That said I have still voted neutral because of this

Bound potions

Im still at a loss to understand why the pvpers are constantly being treated like a 2nd class player. Can someone give me one valid reason for this? There is no other aspect of the game given so many restrictions including the recipe levels, binding rewards and the whole opt in thing im glad is being removed now!

Lets examine a few other game aspects and see why I feel like we are being discriminated against,,,,

Titan hunting,,its been proven there was and probabally is cheating going on but the guild that wins the 50% gets a unbound epic item worth many many FSP

Arenas,,,nobodys complaining the arena players have a monopoly on the resources to make several nice recipes, nobody demanded level restrictions on inventing those and I know of a few potions that are WAY better than what is available elsewhere the example being pot of greater cloak WHY ISNT THAT BOUND?????

GvG, id like to slip in a plug to ask for new gear for RP rewards please but saying that why arent those items bound?

There is no other area of the game that discourages hard work for reward more than pvp ladder. I would like to challenge everyone to change my mind on binding of these items and give me the reasons why we should be segregated from the rest of FS in this way because currently I have to say strongly disagree unless someone wants to give us a example of these potions and why they should be bound,,,maybe they are just so powerful they had to be? A 24 hour deflect or 48 hour cloak perhaps? The arena cloak is 10 hours with BM so they should be way better than that UNBOUND potion to justify it.


I really appreciate you pointing out what all these groups get. I agree that PvPers should get something for their troubles... and so should the levelers. Where are our exclusive potions and gear to sell to the PvPers, Titian hunters and GvGers when they choose not to level.

As you say "justify it"



for levelers huh? I guess first one would be the loyalty pots especially the doubler one. But lets go futher, every creature you hit gives you gold and exp with no chance of bounty, I sell drops even common ones I got from leveling and finally rewards from quest items,,,they are not bound I just got a lib500 pot from the storybook quest( ok so that one is bound). Levelers have pleanty of rewards by comaprison to risk, investment and work.

#217 Melike1hit

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 18:59

because i want a free skill reset before i hit 500 i am gunna argue a point


In the past when you made changes to a buff you have given us a free reset of our skills. Well you changes 2 skills. Will you be resetting our skills?


If we changed those skills, we would allow players to reset their skills.


So i am assuming that means these improvements havent happened?

#218 Lutrafs

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 19:02


Sorry to quote myself, but can anyone answer this?, because if it is the way it appears to be it's a pretty fatal flaw in the system, and just about the most easily abusable implimentation ever..


Player B would not lose the 5 PvP Rating as they didn't initiate the attack.

I do see what your saying though - does anyone have any thoughts on this?


Actually I do, this means a pvper can simply keep hitting people and thier rating is always increasing from those successful hits, but they only lose rating if they lose an attack they started.

If they lose an attack they should lose rating regardless of who initiated the attack.

If they dont it simply makes climbing the ladder that much easier for them since they can rest assured once they get thier rating up there it cant be lost.

#219 watagashi

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 19:03

potions should be bound so that if you want them you HAVE to participate(also why I suggested a good leveling potion or two in there)


Then apply the same to arenas, titans and GvG,,if "If you want them you have to participate" is the best reason for binding let it be made on other aspects of the game too.

Still waiting for a reasonable explination why pvp items must be bound but no others


Not all would have to be bound - we can discuss improvements to the PvP Ladder rewards after though :)


I only brought this up because its included in this revision and will afect my vote on it. Everything else I agree with

#220 Hoofmaster

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 19:03

because i want a free skill reset before i hit 500 i am gunna argue a point


In the past when you made changes to a buff you have given us a free reset of our skills. Well you changes 2 skills. Will you be resetting our skills?


If we changed those skills, we would allow players to reset their skills.


So i am assuming that means these improvements havent happened?


No - this is just a suggestion currently :)


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