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Official Suggestion : PvP Improvements (rev. 6)


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#141 Windbattle

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 18:10

I love hearing how PvP had ruined the game...fact is poor updates,cheats,multis and profiteering has run more players away than PvP ever has...you joined a PvP game and look..your almost at EoC...shows you have obviously not been PvP'd enough to leave game(even before protection was EVER offered)


Whiners are bound to show up in a thread like this. Everyone gets a voice though. Hopefully, they will have the wisdom to see what is best for the game and not any particular group of players.

#142 flyinhigha

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 18:10

I don't understand why PvP and bounty hunting should be combined, after all they are separate now and should be kept that way. Bounty hunters in real life go after go after 'people that rob others' not the guys that agree to battle in a boxing ring or play a game of hockey :P

I suggest.....
- getting rid of PvP protection, as that is what the bounty board is for.( leave exp. taken as it is now)
- Give tokens to bounty hunters, for successful clears.
- Bounty hunters and PvP ladder participants, should not be able to get posted, on the BB, in RL they do not bounty real bounty hunters or boxers that agree to fight.
- bring in a new rating system for bounty hunters, so we can all see who is the best at it (keep the medals the same as they are now for bounty hunters and ladder participants.)
- keep the opt in/out for the ladder.
- Introduce new gear/potions for tokens.

Finally, start working on New Ideas like the proposed Shattering, Mutation and Alchemy and perhaps a live tournament-style as CommieDevo suggested.... I'm getting bored, in game and instead of seeing all this bickering, I would like to see NEW stuff not old stuff rehashed over and over again :D

#143 Dowster

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 18:10

[*]If you are defeated in combat (attacking or defending), you will lose 50% of the equivalent PvP Rating you would have gained if you won the combat. Note that your PvP Rating can never be reduced below 0. Note also you can only gain PvP Rating when initiating combat.


Can someone tell me if im getting this right?. Lets's say just for example that two people have a rating of 10. Person A hits person B and wins, and (again for example) gains 10 rating. Person B would then lose 5 dropping them down to 5 in total, and person A is now on 20. So Person B attacks person A, and gains 10 - putting them up to 15, and dropping A down to 15. So by attacking each other each winning once and losing once, they both gain from it..

If the gain for a win is higher than the loss for a loss, people can trade hits hourly and both gain rating as long as they keep similar figures??

Or am I just being braindead and missing something obvious?

#144 zzephyr

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 18:11

I agree with those saying that rating loss should only happen if a player attacks and loses.

To discourage farming even further, and give a representation of the activity of "occasional PvPers," why don't we have a ladder that never resets? I recall a suggestion that prizes could be awarded to players who reach ratings of 1000, 10000, 30000, 60000, 100000, etc. (or whatever #'s work). Without resets (and with similar formulas for rating gain as proposed above), those who don't PvP would REALLY have less (or nothing) to worry about (except gold hits or "just for fun," which IMO is as it should be).
Then players could also slowly build up to gain the prizes at different levels of rating -- there's no built-in punishment for not leveling fast enough, TKP don't disappear if your guild stops hunting titans for a few weeks, so why should PvP rating disappear every few days???

Edit: It was pointed out that a cumulative ladder would encourage trading.... got it ;)

#145 paingwin

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 18:11



Really now? I use more than that when I hunt. Which is about eash 15 days or so.


so then we're in agreement...we spend about the same amount...so the point is invalid


No... Not since I have to buy pvp protection to avoid pvp hits. Then you should pay the same to be able to pvp hit. But fine continue as you have and destroy the game for people and they will quit and you wont have anyone left to hit.

the ability to hit others has been here since day 1. this is not a NEW concept, NEW addition, or anything else. its been like that since day 1. if you quit it is because you chose to, not because someone forced you out. this argument is beginning to get old very quick in my opinion.

#146 Bleltch

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 18:11

I love hearing how PvP had ruined the game...fact is poor updates,cheats,multis and profiteering has run more players away than PvP ever has...you joined a PvP game and look..your almost at EoC...shows you have obviously not been PvP'd enough to leave game(even before protection was EVER offered)


Whiners are bound to show up in a thread like this. Everyone gets a voice though. Hopefully, they will have the wisdom to see what is best for the game and not any particular group of players.

I keep hoping that, but from the latest revisions i dont think they do. :(

#147 hades8840

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 18:12

havent read the thread being honest been so many it gives me a headache just trying to go through them but just reading part of the home page saying you can only hit a person once if they have a 0 pvp rating and it can never go below this wont that mean you can purposely lose against someone who has a 0 rating so they gain part of what you would of won then someone else can come along and smack them as there pvp rating is no longer 0 ?? and this cycle just continely repeated?? sorry didnt read thread like i said i dont do pvp and being forced to do something i dont want to do just makes me lose more interest

#148 Lutrafs

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 18:12

Welcome to PvP by NERF.
We all wear armor, and are now hitting with foam rubber swords?
PvP ladder is not, and never was PvP.
Trying to combine the two is going to always lead to disappointment, and no matter how many band aids you slap on a leaking ship, it is still going down.
As it was, it was at least floating, the problem was it just wasnt worth the time or investment anymore as the new items/ rewards that were promised many months ago never came.



That is the problem that screwed pvp in the first place, for the most part pvp was fine until they added the reward system.

#149 livingsin

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 18:13

havent read the thread being honest been so many it gives me a headache just trying to go through them but just reading part of the home page saying you can only hit a person once if they have a 0 pvp rating and it can never go below this wont that mean you can purposely lose against someone who has a 0 rating so they gain part of what you would of won then someone else can come along and smack them as there pvp rating is no longer 0 ?? and this cycle just continely repeated?? sorry didnt read thread like i said i dont do pvp and being forced to do something i dont want to do just makes me lose more interest


no rating transfer(its cumulative) would fix this issue you speak of..aka

I hit someone and win...I get rating

I hit someone and lose...I lose rating but they gain 0

#150 vcompton

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 18:14

Hey Wiivja thats a good idea. If they charge entrance fee and add the fee to a pot and make it part of the winnings. The more it grows the more players will want to get there hands on it. It should lead to some good fun and a real goal to work towards. Also make sure it cost a good bit per lvl so the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow is a real prize worth winning. If the amount of gold gets too high just give a little to the top ten players in stead of only the top 5. So everyone gets a little taste and no one person gets an overly inflated pot of gold.

#151 Lutrafs

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 18:14

havent read the thread being honest been so many it gives me a headache just trying to go through them but just reading part of the home page saying you can only hit a person once if they have a 0 pvp rating and it can never go below this wont that mean you can purposely lose against someone who has a 0 rating so they gain part of what you would of won then someone else can come along and smack them as there pvp rating is no longer 0 ?? and this cycle just continely repeated?? sorry didnt read thread like i said i dont do pvp and being forced to do something i dont want to do just makes me lose more interest


The way I read it the defender doesnt gain pvp rating if the attacker loses.

#152 Wiivja

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 18:15

I love hearing how PvP had ruined the game...fact is poor updates,cheats,multis and profiteering has run more players away than PvP ever has...you joined a PvP game and look..your almost at EoC...shows you have obviously not been PvP'd enough to leave game(even before protection was EVER offered)


No, but I have been PvPed enough to stop donating

#153 Chazz224

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 18:15

This idea was perfect... ---> http://forum.fallens...hp?f=1&t=103986 <----------------- Why not implement this idea from Maehdros?

This lower pvp protection???

Let's reduce xp loss???

ARE you Kidding me???

Why allow pvp?? Why have XP loss at all? Why have a bounty board??? This use to be a pvp game !!!!!

This game was not designed for leveling or levelers... but it sure does look like things have turned around... =./

Break out your pillows girls... cause pvp seems to be leaving town... =*(

HCS... I STRONGLY DISAGREE... with theses ideas... I will Offer some... when I get home... I've been working a lot this week which is why I have not had time to comment much... but I can't believe what is being offered..

I understand the " Levelers " wish not to be hit and I also respect the pvpers urge to take xp along with gold... of course there is a sutiable compromise... but this is not it... this is certainly not it... I will share some ideas in a few hours with the community and perhaps many might take interest to them... perhaps not... we will see...


Chazz

#154 livingsin

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 18:16

I love hearing how PvP had ruined the game...fact is poor updates,cheats,multis and profiteering has run more players away than PvP ever has...you joined a PvP game and look..your almost at EoC...shows you have obviously not been PvP'd enough to leave game(even before protection was EVER offered)


No, but I have been PvPed enough to stop donating



and I quit donating cuz multis aren't policed to MY satisfaction....whats your point?

#155 Woulfe

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 18:16

you expect to get hit over 50x? really?


It will all depend on the PvPers. Personally I feel that this is an Arena type competition where nobody has anything to lose.

This is 1 step short of having an arena where everyone is opted in, nobody loses anything because you can only gain points toward a prize and this event is separated from the rest of the game. Sounds like other PvP games I have seen.

This will will make the BB even more of a joke than it is now. No loss = no bounty. So what if you take some of my gold, I'm not going to pay more to bounty you. Its was only gold!!!

I feel very strongly that this will end badly!!!!

#156 paingwin

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 18:17

I love hearing how PvP had ruined the game...fact is poor updates,cheats,multis and profiteering has run more players away than PvP ever has...you joined a PvP game and look..your almost at EoC...shows you have obviously not been PvP'd enough to leave game(even before protection was EVER offered)


No, but I have been PvPed enough to stop donating

so if you dont donate where are you getting these 1000's of FSP you claim to spend?

#157 Arnagast

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 18:18

OK I like the changes and if they went as they are it would be ok. The opt out feature is very important to me. I would hate to see it lost.

Not sure if this has been suggested yet but how about this for opt out.

If you opt out you loose xp as normal pvp/bounty if attacked for normal pvp. But if you opt in you can only hit players that have done the same. But also you will loose no xp/gold from any attack. one possibility is that you can't be attacked by a player that is not opted-in for the ladder. Or you just don't loose anything and the same should apply for the person making the attack if they loose. This will greatly increase the amount of players that opt in because its the only way to not loose xp. It should reduce the number of players that get upset over the pvp system in general.

This should also allow those that like to pvp freedom to hit many players without 3 days of constant bounties and hate mail.

You may also need to make it so any bounties for an attack from before the player opt-in still count toward xp loss.

Just my quick thoughts im not a big pvper but would probably opt in if it ment no xp loss. At my lvl the ladder can get a little crazy so I normally dont join.

This may also eliminate the need for some of the other changes proposed and save you a lot of late night coding sessions. Simple is alway best.

Thanks!
vcompton


Think I kind of like this at first glance - probably the only time i have thought...Hmm! maybe joining in will be fun while im not hunting. Though kind of get dissmayed when thinking it could be like the arena where only a few numbers seem to rule and taking part becomes a bottomless pit of coin and no joy of ever winning. Can't help im rubbish at it.

#158 kalish

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 18:18

[*]PvP Rating can only be gained once from a player who has a PvP Rating of 0. (This prevents players not wanting to participate from being hit hourly for PvP Rating).


The more I think about this, the more I see a need for clarification on this from HCS. There are four possible interpretations here. I'll assume that there are 100 players in my current band (700-799).

1) Each of the other 99 players could gain rating once per reset by hitting me.
2) Each of the other 99 players could gain rating once forever by hitting me. (That is, if player A hits me for rating, they can never hit me for rating again for the life of the game, even in subsequent ladder resets)
3) The first player in my band to hit me gains rating, all others attackers after that gain no rating by hitting me. Once per reset.
4) Same as #3, but once for the life of the game instead of once per reset.

At first I interpreted this as #3, meaning we would need some indicator that a player with 0 rating has already been hit for rating. I suggested that first hit reducing your rating to -1, showing other players that they can't gain rating from you. Then when the ladder resets, everyone goes back to 0.

It seems that others are interpreting this as #1. If so, we need at least a 75% reduction in XP loss for a 0-rating player, because the volume of hits will be very high, especially at lower levels. We really don't want to drive those players away, and if at level 100 or so I had gotten hit dozens of times per ladder reset, I definitely would have quit.

#2 is interesting; non-PvPers would get a lot of hits all at once, but never again (except gold hits). If this is the interpretation, I would strongly recommend non-PvPers to buy XP lock once right after implementation of this system.

#4 is basically opt-out, but you have to take one hit to achieve that status.

#159 Hoofmaster

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 18:18

@ hoof 75% and no pvp protection. OR 50%xp loss and pvp protection is available.


I think the higher reduction on xp loss is better to be honest. If you trying to build up your PvP Rating, why is xp loss such a big deal?

Also we don't want to make it essential for levellers to get PvP Protection - I think the 75% reduction will help make it fairer to players not interested in PvP while removing the need for the opt-in/out.

#160 NatalieEGH

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 18:19

I would like the following changes added.

1. Please get rid of the bounty board.

2. Please give the PvP player the winner of the PvP the FULL xp lost by the loser of the PvP.

3. If a player has a PvP rating of zero and they are attacked and win the PvP, their rating should not be raised.

I am not a PvP player so it is not to protect myself that I ask this. Nor will I gain any of the benefits. My reasons are:

1. It is mostly the same people that are attacking the non-PvP players that do the bounties so they are gaining both ways. It is only an ILLUSION OF JUSTICE. When people realize it is the same people that are robbing them of their xp and gold it makes them upset. It is possible this could be a cause for people leaving the game and there is far too much of that. I

2. By the time the players get on the bounty board all stolen gold has long since been disposed of, either from sending to others, bids on the AH, or a quick very high bid for FSP. There is no gold left to steal back from the player.

3. Many of the PvP players actually benefit from losing XP. They often sit in bans where the creatures are relatively easy to 1-hit. This means that if there are no targets they can get quick easy kills and make gold hunting. Losing XP just puts them back to the beginning of that area.

4. By giving the winner of the PvP the XP you will promote them through the levels quickly. This means a PvP player will soon become an EOC player. There have been comments in the past there were not enough targets at those levels. This will help create more targets even if it is just each other.

5. Raising the PvP rating of a person that is not a PvP player just because they got lucky in the PvP makes them into a target for they have suddenly been marked as a PvP player. This makes them a valid target for every PvP player in their band. Heck if I was into PvP, I would actually do an attack on someone and deliberately lose. I could easily make up the lost gold with subsequent attacks over the next x days until the ladder is reset by just repeated hourly attacks.

While I applaud the reduction in the cost of PvP protection, I think the change of restricting PvP attacks on people with a PvP rating of zero is incorrect.


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