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Official Suggestion : PvP Improvements (rev. 6)


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#161 Wiivja

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 18:20

I love hearing how PvP had ruined the game...fact is poor updates,cheats,multis and profiteering has run more players away than PvP ever has...you joined a PvP game and look..your almost at EoC...shows you have obviously not been PvP'd enough to leave game(even before protection was EVER offered)


No, but I have been PvPed enough to stop donating

so if you dont donate where are you getting these 1000's of FSP you claim to spend?


There is alot of ways to get fsps in this game like arena, recruiting and merchanting to name a few.

#162 Hoofmaster

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 18:22

[*]PvP Rating can only be gained once from a player who has a PvP Rating of 0. (This prevents players not wanting to participate from being hit hourly for PvP Rating).


The more I think about this, the more I see a need for clarification on this from HCS. There are four possible interpretations here. I'll assume that there are 100 players in my current band (700-799).

1) Each of the other 99 players could gain rating once per reset by hitting me.
2) Each of the other 99 players could gain rating once forever by hitting me. (That is, if player A hits me for rating, they can never hit me for rating again for the life of the game, even in subsequent ladder resets)
3) The first player in my band to hit me gains rating, all others attackers after that gain no rating by hitting me. Once per reset.
4) Same as #3, but once for the life of the game instead of once per reset.

At first I interpreted this as #3, meaning we would need some indicator that a player with 0 rating has already been hit for rating. I suggested that first hit reducing your rating to -1, showing other players that they can't gain rating from you. Then when the ladder resets, everyone goes back to 0.

It seems that others are interpreting this as #1. If so, we need at least a 75% reduction in XP loss for a 0-rating player, because the volume of hits will be very high, especially at lower levels. We really don't want to drive those players away, and if at level 100 or so I had gotten hit dozens of times per ladder reset, I definitely would have quit.

#2 is interesting; non-PvPers would get a lot of hits all at once, but never again (except gold hits). If this is the interpretation, I would strongly recommend non-PvPers to buy XP lock once right after implementation of this system.

#4 is basically opt-out, but you have to take one hit to achieve that status.


Your first interpretation is correct - each player can only gain PvP Rating from a player with 0 PvP Rating once per reset of the PvP Ladder. Assuming the ladder resets every 3 - 4 days, this means it would only be worthwhile for each player on the ladder to initiate combat with a 0 PvP Rating player once in that time frame (and they would have a 75% reduction to the xp loss).

#163 fs_liuskoj

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 18:22

@ hoof 75% and no pvp protection. OR 50%xp loss and pvp protection is available.


I think the higher reduction on xp loss is better to be honest. If you trying to build up your PvP Rating, why is xp loss such a big deal?

Also we don't want to make it essential for levellers to get PvP Protection - I think the 75% reduction will help make it fairer to players not interested in PvP while removing the need for the opt-in/out.


-75% xp loss is basically a free opt out of pvp, who cares about gold. This will kill the PvP as we know it.

Even the current system is better then this one, sry.

#164 Bleltch

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 18:23

@ hoof 75% and no pvp protection. OR 50%xp loss and pvp protection is available.


I think the higher reduction on xp loss is better to be honest. If you trying to build up your PvP Rating, why is xp loss such a big deal?

Also we don't want to make it essential for levellers to get PvP Protection - I think the 75% reduction will help make it fairer to players not interested in PvP while removing the need for the opt-in/out.

Now what if we dont want to hit them for pvp points? What if we want to hit someone to take their exp? Will we be able to do that? This is still a pvp game isn't it?

#165 paingwin

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 18:23

I would like the following changes added.

1. Please get rid of the bounty board.

2. Please give the PvP player the winner of the PvP the FULL xp lost by the loser of the PvP.

3. If a player has a PvP rating of zero and they are attacked and win the PvP, their rating should not be raised.

I am not a PvP player so it is not to protect myself that I ask this. Nor will I gain any of the benefits. My reasons are:

1. It is mostly the same people that are attacking the non-PvP players that do the bounties so they are gaining both ways. It is only an ILLUSION OF JUSTICE. When people realize it is the same people that are robbing them of their xp and gold it makes them upset. It is possible this could be a cause for people leaving the game and there is far too much of that. I

2. By the time the players get on the bounty board all stolen gold has long since been disposed of, either from sending to others, bids on the AH, or a quick very high bid for FSP. There is no gold left to steal back from the player.

3. Many of the PvP players actually benefit from losing XP. They often sit in bans where the creatures are relatively easy to 1-hit. This means that if there are no targets they can get quick easy kills and make gold hunting. Losing XP just puts them back to the beginning of that area.

4. By giving the winner of the PvP the XP you will promote them through the levels quickly. This means a PvP player will soon become an EOC player. There have been comments in the past there were not enough targets at those levels. This will help create more targets even if it is just each other.

5. Raising the PvP rating of a person that is not a PvP player just because they got lucky in the PvP makes them into a target for they have suddenly been marked as a PvP player. This makes them a valid target for every PvP player in their band. Heck if I was into PvP, I would actually do an attack on someone and deliberately lose. I could easily make up the lost gold with subsequent attacks over the next x days until the ladder is reset by just repeated hourly attacks.

While I applaud the reduction in the cost of PvP protection, I think the change of restricting PvP attacks on people with a PvP rating of zero is incorrect.

there is no rating gain for a successful defense...........
i rarely get cleared off the bounty board by "friends".......
pvp will never GIVE experience, only take it away, so say the cows

#166 Wiivja

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 18:23

I love hearing how PvP had ruined the game...fact is poor updates,cheats,multis and profiteering has run more players away than PvP ever has...you joined a PvP game and look..your almost at EoC...shows you have obviously not been PvP'd enough to leave game(even before protection was EVER offered)


No, but I have been PvPed enough to stop donating



and I quit donating cuz multis aren't policed to MY satisfaction....whats your point?

Im just saying my thoughts on the matter. I think I have the same right for a say as anyone else that plays this game.

#167 Necra

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 18:24

i jus wanna see something implements soon bugs can be edited as we go. we have some as close to perfect as can be. only true test is to try it out. ( experiment)

#168 donalde

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 18:25

@ hoof 75% and no pvp protection. OR 50%xp loss and pvp protection is available.


I think the higher reduction on xp loss is better to be honest. If you trying to build up your PvP Rating, why is xp loss such a big deal?

Also we don't want to make it essential for levellers to get PvP Protection - I think the 75% reduction will help make it fairer to players not interested in PvP while removing the need for the opt-in/out.


No NO NO! Keep the PvP Protection. Else some bullies stats to attack guildies for no good reason every hour.

#169 Hoofmaster

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 18:26

@ hoof 75% and no pvp protection. OR 50%xp loss and pvp protection is available.


I think the higher reduction on xp loss is better to be honest. If you trying to build up your PvP Rating, why is xp loss such a big deal?

Also we don't want to make it essential for levellers to get PvP Protection - I think the 75% reduction will help make it fairer to players not interested in PvP while removing the need for the opt-in/out.

Now what if we dont want to hit them for pvp points? What if we want to hit someone to take their exp? Will we be able to do that? This is still a pvp game isn't it?


I thought your main concern was hitting for gold?

If you are looking to hit to reduce xp, then attacking a player with 0 PvP Rating will still remove xp (albeit with a 75% reduction). Hitting a player with a PvP Rating will remove the normal xp.

#170 livingsin

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 18:26

while I agree your allowed your opinion...stating you'd like an EASILY abused system to protect your xp/gold over a FAIR system is where some of us got upset....

We are never gonna agree but to try and act like PvP'ers are scum or don't pay to play like everyone else is wrong

#171 Chazz224

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 18:26

@ hoof 75% and no pvp protection. OR 50%xp loss and pvp protection is available.


I think the higher reduction on xp loss is better to be honest. If you trying to build up your PvP Rating, why is xp loss such a big deal?

Also we don't want to make it essential for levellers to get PvP Protection - I think the 75% reduction will help make it fairer to players not interested in PvP while removing the need for the opt-in/out.

Now what if we dont want to hit them for pvp points? What if we want to hit someone to take their exp? Will we be able to do that? This is still a pvp game isn't it?



+1 to this question cause... It seems we've gone from pvp to pure leveling... =/

#172 Hoofmaster

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 18:27

@ hoof 75% and no pvp protection. OR 50%xp loss and pvp protection is available.


I think the higher reduction on xp loss is better to be honest. If you trying to build up your PvP Rating, why is xp loss such a big deal?

Also we don't want to make it essential for levellers to get PvP Protection - I think the 75% reduction will help make it fairer to players not interested in PvP while removing the need for the opt-in/out.


No NO NO! Keep the PvP Protection. Else some bullies stats to attack guildies for no good reason every hour.


In this revision, we're not looking at removing PvP Protection - infact we're looking at making it cost less FSPs :)

#173 livingsin

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 18:27

hoof this system seems to generally liked overall. I say let the poll run and see what happens...

#174 tlthomasjr

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 18:28

@ hoof 75% and no pvp protection. OR 50%xp loss and pvp protection is available.


I think the higher reduction on xp loss is better to be honest. If you trying to build up your PvP Rating, why is xp loss such a big deal?

Also we don't want to make it essential for levellers to get PvP Protection - I think the 75% reduction will help make it fairer to players not interested in PvP while removing the need for the opt-in/out.


I disagree. At quick glance sure it seems like a good idea, but over the long haul, exp loss becomes part of the process. To stay in prime gear for your band, you have to take some breaks, and still do some hunting, or max exp gain with upgrades. That gives others a chance to dominate while you are regrouping, and it also makes you play more sportsman like to avoid living on the BB taking double xp loss.
I also think if you win or lose a PvP attack on the ladder, you should gain or lose rating regardless who initiated. A more fun version would be to make it double rating lost if you lose an attack you initiate, or to make the gloat buff accomplish that, since the buff is virtually worthless as is.
If the point of this 75% reduction is to stop the need for pvp protection, then just leave it at opt in like it was. If no rating is gained from off ladder hits, then the only two reasons for pvp hits are to steal gold, which they dont have to hold, or to take exp from them for some reason, so just be careful whom you provoke.

#175 Hoofmaster

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 18:29

i jus wanna see something implements soon bugs can be edited as we go. we have some as close to perfect as can be. only true test is to try it out. ( experiment)


I would like to let the in-game poll finish and also discuss it a bit more first. The poll is looking mostly neutral/positive however which is cool :)

#176 fs_liuskoj

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 18:29

If you are looking to hit to reduce xp, then attacking a player with 0 PvP Rating will still remove xp (albeit with a 75% reduction). Hitting a player with a PvP Rating will remove the normal xp.

What if I want to hit for the xp? Sometimes that's the main reason, the real joy of pvp...please don't take it away. Now players can just get behind the -75% after a reset just by doing nothing.

#177 donalde

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 18:29


No NO NO! Keep the PvP Protection. Else some bullies stats to attack guildies for no good reason every hour.


In this revision, we're not looking at removing PvP Protection - infact we're looking at making it cost less FSPs :)


Sorry, misunderstood your comment to maeh. Everything is good for me as long as you keep that PvP Protection. Cheers!

#178 laptribe

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 18:29

Thank you to all players for their feedback on the previous revision.

We're going to try and keep this revision concise to make it easier to read/discuss.


[*]Remove the need for the PvP Ladder opt-in/out by reducing the xp loss by 75% when a player has 0 PvP Rating. NO some of us still want the opt out

[*]Reduce the cost of the PvP Protection and the Protect XP upgrade (XP Lock). Yes

[*]Change the Gloat/Honor skill to take/protect more gold. why not do away with these skills altogether

Please note that an in-game poll will be available within the next 30 minutes regarding this suggestion.



#179 Wiivja

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 18:29

while I agree your allowed your opinion...stating you'd like an EASILY abused system to protect your xp/gold over a FAIR system is where some of us got upset....

We are never gonna agree but to try and act like PvP'ers are scum or don't pay to play like everyone else is wrong


Well I would love to try ladder... Would be something fun to do while waiting for stamina to fill... But not with the xp loss thats there..

#180 Woulfe

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 18:30

Can we try this on the Alpha server and see how it runs. its already running for maps may as well try out the PvP options before incorporating them into the main game


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